Controversial wind project gets green light (Grouse Mountain)

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Because a solar farm would look so much better on Grouse Mountain!

why not? There must be a dozen buildings or so they could of put the panels ontop. you would never see them.

[twoNeurons]

Come on people... lighten up... it's not like they put a ferris wheel on the peak....



hmmm...

[LeftCoaster]

haha dont walk down that path...

Oh but imagine how world calss we could be....

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by djmk

what am i trying to say?

well, there is solar energy produced at the Lynn Valley Care Center producing 9MWh. There is another at SFU producing about 10MWh. Again, more solar ontop of the Olympic Village. Solar works in our environment

This tower will produce 1.5MWh in a season in which Vancouver does not need extra energy.

all i'm saying, is that Grouse mountain could of gone "green" by using better technologies. But Grouse mountain really does not care about being green, it cares about making profit. Generally I would say, "good for them", however I think they are just playing with our enviro heart strings when they really wanted was a look out tower.

Sorry there, but you have no idea what you're talking about. A MWh is a unit of energy, a MW is a unit of power.

That solar array on top of the Lynn Valley Care Centre is a small solar array. In a 10 second search on google it looks like it produces 8.75kW. Thats .00875MW. The 10 MWh figure is probably per annum. The turbine on top of grouse produces 1.5MW peak. If it ran full bore all year long it would produce 13140MWh. In all reality it will probably produce 20% of that, but thats still over 200x the output of the solar array on top of Lynn Valley Care Centre.

The Lynn Valley Care Centre array is there simply to assist with powering the geothermal heating system installed in the building. It doesn't even provide all the power needs of the building given a peak output.

A 10MW solar facility isn't something you simply plop on top of a building. They're freaking huge. Now I don't want to come off as a condescending dick, but if you want to wrap yourself in a blanket of green enviro happiness please, please, please some more research.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Sorry there, but you have no idea what you're talking about. A MWh is a unit of energy, a MW is a unit of power.

That solar array on top of the Lynn Valley Care Centre is a small solar array. In a 10 second search on google it looks like it produces 8.75kW. Thats .00875MW. The 10 MWh figure is probably per annum. The turbine on top of grouse produces 1.5MW peak. If it ran full bore all year long it would produce 13140MWh. In all reality it will probably produce 20% of that, but thats still over 200x the output of the solar array on top of Lynn Valley Care Centre.

The Lynn Valley Care Centre array is there simply to assist with powering the geothermal heating system installed in the building. It doesn't even provide all the power needs of the building given a peak output.

A 10MW solar facility isn't something you simply plop on top of a building. They're freaking huge. Now I don't want to come off as a condescending dick, but if you want to wrap yourself in a blanket of green enviro happiness please, please, please some more research.

well put sir

[WarrenC12]

Good info Alex.

My concern was more with ROI. Wind makes sense in many places around the world. Solar is borderline at best in the places with the most expensive power and the most sun. However solar is getting cheaper and more efficient, so maybe one day it will make better economic sense. And I'm assuming all future power should be zero emission, which is BC Hydro's mandate.

[nova9]

Go to this link: http://vancouverisawesome.com/2009/1...ew/#more-23575 for an incredible view FROM the wind turbine on Grouse Mountain.

Taken by Devlin Fenton of DLB Cranes, here's a sample:

[twoNeurons]

The windmill is moving! Weird that they waited for the day after the Olympics to start it up.

[djmk]

Turbine generates conflict with Hydro
Eye of the Wind idles without safety approval

James Weldon
North Shore News

Friday, April 16, 2010


Grouse Mountain's wind turbine, dubbed Eye of the Wind, is not currently generating electricity for the ski resort because BC Hydro has yet to approve required safety measures. Grouse claims the safety measures are there, just not in the fashion Hydro wants.

Grouse Mountain's much-touted wind turbine has been ready to go for several months, according to the resort, but a dispute with BC Hydro over safety regulations is keeping the blades from turning.

The 21-storey structure, which appeared on Grouse's summit last fall, has been functional since the beginning of February, but until the provincial power authority signs off on the project, it can't legally generate power. Hydro won't green light the turbine until it's satisfied the generator's safety systems are up to snuff. The authority says they aren't. Grouse says they are.

"As far as we're concerned, those mandates are satisfied," said Chris Dagenais, a spokesman for the resort. "As far as (Hydro) is concerned, because they're not satisfied in exactly the same ways as their blanket policies, we're not in compliance."

The disagreement centres on two mechanisms meant to allow large power generators to interface safely with the province's electrical grid. The first would monitor the turbine's output for any power surges or other anomalies and shut it down in the event they went outside the acceptable range. The other is a metering system for a directional power relay, a "stopper," in Dagenais' words, that prevents energy produced by the turbine from flowing into the public grid.

Grouse says it has devices in place that perform both these functions, just not exactly in the way spelt out by Hydro. The utility says that's not good enough. In fact, to allow them would be a violation of a contract signed by the resort.

"The method that they proposed is not what was agreed to and what is required," said Dag Sharman, a spokesman for BC Hydro. "What is in the contract . . . is standard protective measures that meet national and international standards."

Hydro's specifications don't just protect users of the turbine itself, but ensure the safety of the public at large and Hydro's equipment beyond Grouse Mountain, said Sharman. Although the Eye of the Wind won't be contributing energy to the provincial grid, it will be connected to it indirectly through the resort's existing wiring. In theory, a mishap at the turbine could have a dangerous effect elsewhere in the grid if the proper safeguards aren't in place, he said.

"Any electrical lines that are connected are just that; they're connected," said Sharman. "Even though you intend for power to go one way, should there be a fault or other issue, there is the potential for it . . . to go the other way."

But Grouse asserts its approach is completely safe.

"All we're asking (Hydro) to do is take a look at this again," said Dagenais. "This is a cutting-edge piece of equipment. . . . Our turbine is the only one of its kind in the world."

The mountain's concern is not based in finances, said the spokesman. Although the 1.5-Megawatt generator is expected to cut Grouse's electrical bill down by a quarter once it's up and running, it was not created as a way to reduce costs.

"If this were strictly a utilities invoice saver, then this whole project wouldn't have made sense," said Dagenais. "It's a very expensive way to offset 25 per cent of our energy needs."

Rather, the project is meant to demonstrate the viability of wind power. It can't do that effectively if it's not churning out energy, he said.

"We're starting to see why it's a bit prohibitive, . . . why there aren't more independent players doing this," said Dagenais.

Grouse, a private company, hasn't released dollar figures attached to the turbine project or the changes Hydro is seeking, but Hydro ballparks the cost of installing the mechanisms at about $30,000. The work would likely be done by an independent contractor.

Dagenais hopes that by speaking to the media, the two sides might overcome the impasse.

"(Hydro) is keen to meet again and to talk about where they stand," he said. "It could well be that they'll be unrelenting on this. . . . (But) our hope is they'll look at this from a different perspective and acknowledge that the end result is exactly what they want."

Hydro spokesman Sharman made it clear that regardless of the current situation, the utility wants to see the turbine succeed.

"It's an excellent project," he said. "We're really happy to see the promotion of clean energy in such a prominent way. . . . Once they get those final protective measures in place, then we can come and make sure it's all as it should be and -- kaboom -- it will be up and running."

jweldon@nsnews.com

too funny

[WarrenC12]

Sounds like the waterfront stadium, but at least this thing is already built.

[johnjimbc]

I find it mildly suspicious that BC Hydro finds reasons not to make independent electrical power generation feasible . . . just a little.

[Alex Mackinnon]

There are a lot of complications with wind power though. I'm what the specific problem is, but I'd imagine hydro is probably just worried about grid stability.

[jlousa]

BC Hydro is completely in the right on this, there are Provincial electrical guidelines that need to be met, it is not up to anyone to change them because they feel their own measures are good enough. We have one of the most reliable systems on the planet it seems pretty obvious that BC Hydro wants to ensure it stays that way. Grouse would've been aware of these regulations before the started yet chose to try and circumvent them. Any building site would not be allowed to connect to the grid until BC Hydro is completely satisfied and this case is no different.

[WarrenC12]

I saw this bad boy spinning the other day from Empire Field, but not yesterday. Is it active and supplying the grid with juice or what?

[deasine]

It's supposed to generate ~25% of the resort's electrical use.

[SpongeG]

its spinning but from what i have heard its tied up in red tape with BC hydro