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  #9401  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ebuilder View Post
^considering the existing cars are almost 40 years old I'm sure whatever replaces them will seem extremely modern and in line with what other world class cities have.
Apologies for delving into name calling, but you sir (or madame), are an optimist if I've ever seen one.
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  #9402  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
My question is how long the cars will be and how they will be articulated. There are some very tight turns in the tunnels.

While we're at it, can a moderator have someone add the mass transit thread to the Philadelphia list? Right now one has to seek it out (so discussions like this don't make it there).
Big bump. I've wondered why it wasn't here for awhile.
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  #9403  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 7:54 PM
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Public authorities are not exactly on the cutting edge of design theory so expect the livery to be as lively as a Soviet cookout.

In regards to the plan I think that it's an excellent idea. For a long time I've believed that the subway-surface system is underrealized for the present day but never thought that SEPTA would actually look seriously at addressing it. Even our current subway-surface set-up could operate much more efficiently with one major change - separation. Streetcars in mixed traffic in 2018 are at best as good as a bus for all but environmental reasons. Coupling that with stop consolidation is an excellent way to make the system work more in line with modern light rail operating standards and legitimately make our "Green Line" worthy of being thought of like a viable transit option.
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  #9404  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
My question is how long the cars will be and how they will be articulated. There are some very tight turns in the tunnels.

While we're at it, can a moderator have someone add the mass transit thread to the Philadelphia list? Right now one has to seek it out (so discussions like this don't make it there).
IIRC they're supposed to be the same model as Toronto's.
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  #9405  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 8:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
IIRC they're supposed to be the same model as Toronto's.
Thanks. Google image search for "Toronto trolley" yields a variety of models. I hope it's the five-sectioned low-rider!
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  #9406  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
Thanks. Google image search for "Toronto trolley" yields a variety of models. I hope it's the five-sectioned low-rider!
They have the same issue with curve radii so I think it will be except maybe with 1 or 2 fewer sections. Report recommends cars that are 80 feet long. The Flexity Outlook used in Toronto is 99 feet long.
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  #9407  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Parkway View Post
They have the same issue with curve radii so I think it will be except maybe with 1 or 2 fewer sections. Report recommends cars that are 80 feet long. The Flexity Outlook used in Toronto is 99 feet long.
I suppose if a section is short enough, the number wouldn't matter, but I transferred out of engineering first semester.... Might you know how long the current Kawasaki models are?
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  #9408  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Just spitballing here but if SEPTA went in a heritage direction and wanted to revive the PTC livery, Helsinki gives a great example of what that might look like on a modern tram:


_
That's what I'm talking about. Gorgeous.
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  #9409  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Parkway View Post
They have the same issue with curve radii so I think it will be except maybe with 1 or 2 fewer sections. Report recommends cars that are 80 feet long. The Flexity Outlook used in Toronto is 99 feet long.
Can we get the version used in Innsbruck Austria?
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  #9410  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
I suppose if a section is short enough, the number wouldn't matter, but I transferred out of engineering first semester.... Might you know how long the current Kawasaki models are?
It's in the report, which I can't access at the moment, but I think it is 50 some feet. They also mention that they will be able to reduce the trolley fleet by a few dozen because the new cars will have increased capacity.
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  #9411  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 11:22 PM
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The Kawasaki's are 50 feet. The old refurbed PCC's are 46.5 feet.
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  #9412  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Can we get the version used in Innsbruck Austria?
Innsbruck:


_


Speaking of Austria, the Pöstlingbergbahn in Linz did an excellent job of giving their modern trams a nostalgic nod with styling that included a centered headlight. This would also be a cool possibility for Philadelphia:


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  #9413  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
The Kawasaki's are 50 feet. The old refurbed PCC's are 46.5 feet.
Thanks. So an 80 foot articulated trolley would probably be two 40 foot sections (not being sure how long the sections are in the Toronto version). I think that I recall seeing two coupled Kawasakis run through the tunnels at times (it's been several years since I've been one since my work shifted to the 'burbs), which means that they could fit a 100 foot version through there (but it's probably already too close for comfort).
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  #9414  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 11:48 PM
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^The new trolley will most definitely be 3-bogie and 2 or 3-sectional. That is to say it will have one set of wheels under each of the sections. It could be longer, but I would bet it will be about the same length as a SF Muni or Boston vehicle.
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  #9415  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
You see. The people making decisions are stale crackers.
That's racist.

I think something modern would be nice and I don't mind the current SEPTA color schemes, makes it unique and they stand out in a non flashy way.
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  #9416  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 1:38 PM
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Plans to turn the former campus of St. Mary of the Assumption in Manayunk into a residential development have drastically changed, with the developer cutting the number of units in half and adding street parking to the mix.

...

The new proposal, which was presented to Manayunk residents on Thursday night, now calls for 21 homes, each with two parking spaces; 35 apartments with 52 parking spaces; eight to 10 parking spaces on Carson Street; and 16 parking spaces for Northern Light Community Center to rent.

Kevin Smith, president of the Manayunk Neighborhood Council, told the Inquirer he was in support of the new plan.
https://philly.curbed.com/2018/1/12/...anayunk-update

Ridiculous. This location is literally a block away from the Manayunk regional rail stop. I understand that people have issues with parking in the area but the city should be making moves to reduce car dependency. This parcel would have been a perfect candidate for a walkable development. Instead, Manayunk is getting a suburban development in the heart of the downtown area which will "alleviate" parking issues, but will also contribute to more traffic on i76 and in Manayunk, and will also contribute to rising rents due to limiting overall supply of housing units.

Last edited by DudeGuy; Jan 14, 2018 at 1:53 PM. Reason: Further clarification.
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  #9417  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 7:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DudeGuy View Post
https://philly.curbed.com/2018/1/12/...anayunk-update

Ridiculous. This location is literally a block away from the Manayunk regional rail stop. I understand that people have issues with parking in the area but the city should be making moves to reduce car dependency. This parcel would have been a perfect candidate for a walkable development. Instead, Manayunk is getting a suburban development in the heart of the downtown area which will "alleviate" parking issues, but will also contribute to more traffic on i76 and in Manayunk, and will also contribute to rising rents due to limiting overall supply of housing units.
How exactly would the city reduce car dependency? I mean, realistically here. So many of the high paying jobs are outside the city and people have to be able to commute. Unless Philly is finally going to make a very strong attempt to pull most of the regions jobs into center city, people are going to need cars.

I give this example as someone living in a booming area but has to commute out of the city for work. And I've tried public transit and it makes my commute about 3x as long. That said, I wish I didn't have to commute...but it is what it is. Philly lacks jobs in many areas and so the burbs are the only choice.
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  #9418  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ScreamShatter View Post
How exactly would the city reduce car dependency? I mean, realistically here. So many of the high paying jobs are outside the city and people have to be able to commute. Unless Philly is finally going to make a very strong attempt to pull most of the regions jobs into center city, people are going to need cars.

I give this example as someone living in a booming area but has to commute out of the city for work. And I've tried public transit and it makes my commute about 3x as long. That said, I wish I didn't have to commute...but it is what it is. Philly lacks jobs in many areas and so the burbs are the only choice.
That's all true. But you still don't need more than 2 spots for every household right next to a train station. That's just ridiculous.
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  #9419  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2018, 1:00 PM
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That's all true. But you still don't need more than 2 spots for every household right next to a train station. That's just ridiculous.
I live right next to a train station in one of my the quickly developing areas, and me and all my neighbors who have moved into these new houses each have 2 cars. Either for a couple living together or roommates or whoever. Multiple people work outside the city so the train won’t get us to where we need to go. And others who have two cars bc they drive their kids to the burbs each day for school...a situation that I bet is more common than people realize as I have 3 young families on my block who do it. Additionally, when you factor in commercial activity or people who drive to the area and park there to get on on the train, it causes a lot of parking issues.

That’s not to say it can’t change in the future with technology. But where we are today, most households have two cars and our streets aren’t easily able to support that nor is it realistic for everyone to take public trans.
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  #9420  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2018, 3:29 PM
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^Agreed. We need the van for the kids and, as much as I support public transit, it can't get me everywhere I need to go for work. If everything I did was in the city, it might be different.
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