DENVER | Downtown high-rise boom - Page 14

QuarterMileSidewalk · #**261** Posted **Oct 17, 2009, 9:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crush_Buds

Well won't the sandstone eliminate a vast amount of windows? I think the sandstone color is good, but I think people would want there to be more windows instead. It would seem odd to reside in a building with such a shape and be covered in the darkness of opaque sandstone. , especially towards the lower portion of the tower. Maybe two toned-windows could be a solution to emphasize the angles of the building instead? Just my random thoughts about it if it were a reality.

Oh, no worries... my intention in making these models was basically just a massing study... no details, just the overall form. In my mind, a real version of these buildings would have windows set into the sandstone, while the blue-green area would be solid glass.

Crush_Buds · #**262** Posted **Oct 17, 2009, 9:59 AM**

Well your intention was awesome.

SnyderBock · #**263** Posted **Oct 17, 2009, 10:18 AM**

Was this an actual massing study for a potential developer/investment group? Stupid question I guess, as everything you've said indicates you were just doing this for fun. It is a great design. I wonder how marble (either black or white or any other combo) woudl look in place of the sandstone? Or perhaps granite... Of course with your blueish glass on the other sides.

covertb · #**264** Posted **Oct 18, 2009, 7:09 AM**

Does anyone know if there are any height restrictions in Denver? Would a 1000 foot building be allowed? I hope so. I would love to see a 1000 foot building built in Denver. But I didn't know if there were restrictions so that people could see the mountains.

Crush_Buds · #**265** Posted **Oct 18, 2009, 11:38 AM**

I think that 15th Street really needs a few towers to full a big gap in the skyline. We have these new towers along 14th and virtual valley for two blocks or so. I'd love to see some mock ups of a buildings along various spots on 15th adjacent to The Spire, Hyatt, new Embassy Suites, or any other vacant spaces in that general direction (ie: 1501 Tremont, or the mock up Dirt made a while back). Even a supertall could fit in well on 15th IMO. Especially from the City Park angle if it were somehow placed a little off center between Rep. Plaza, Wells Fargo, and Qwest buildings. It's just sad too look at recent aerials and see how barren 15th St is now.

pablosan · #**266** Posted **Oct 18, 2009, 5:09 PM**

Agreed. 15th St has been shown little love. I feel within the next twn years, this will all change.

DenverInfill · #**267** Posted **Oct 18, 2009, 8:06 PM**

The shorter version of the tower is much better, but the overall footprint of the tower is still too massive. You've got the tower covering the entire site (200' x 265') going all the way up with maybe a slight taper. That's a 53,000 SF floorplate which is HUGE. Assuming a tower of that height is around 80 floors, that would be a 4.2 million SF building! Set the building's base to cover the whole site then at about 80 feet up have a substantial setback (south side only) to give you a 30,000 SF floorplate, then another setback around 1/3 of the way up to give you a 22,000 SF floorplate, then another setback around 2/3 the way up to give you a 15,000 SF floorplate. If you do that, you'll get it down to about 1.5 million SF, not counting the first 80 feet that covers the base, as most of that will be parking. I'd also suggest that at the first major setback at 80 feet you do all of it in from the south side, so that the non-setback part of the tower covers the corner at 18th & Broadway. Within each of the 1/3 and 2/3 tower sections, you can still do the slight taper/diagonal thing.

By comparison, Republic Plaza's tower has a 200' x 120' floorplate all the way up, which comes out to 24,000 SF. At 56 floors, RP comes in at around 1.3 million SF.

Finally, if you really want this to be more realistic, you'll have to move the location. That site at 18th and Broadway has a 400' height limit per the Downtown B-5 zoning. Anywhere in between 16th & 18th/Broadway, Larimer to Court, you'll have no height limit per se (only a Floor-area-ratio limit which I won't get into here as it's too technical) or between 14th and 15th. Here's a zoning map for the B-5 downtown.

I like the overall design and I like the colors.

QuarterMileSidewalk · #**268** Posted **Oct 19, 2009, 6:48 AM**

Thanks for all of that, DenverInfill; very informative. I may or may not keep working on this idea, but those suggestions will be helpful if I do. I certainly hadn't yet taken into account any of the realities of Downtown Denver when I picked the site. (I live exactly 790.38 miles away-isn't Google Earth fun?) I just wanted to see what a supertall would look like in Denver, and that site was well suited for my laggy computer to handle in SketchUp, with its orthogonal orientation.

I also liked its location near RP and Wells Fargo. Speaking of which, were the height restrictions on that zoning map adopted after Wells Fargo was built? As far as I can tell, that tower is now in a 400' limited zone!

I could certainly try one of those smaller surface lots along 15th this week, or else the lot at California and 17th. That would allow for the slimmer proportions of the original design, which I rather liked. I just am confused about the map's explanation of the height limit between 15th and 16th, NE of Court. What does "% of 16th St. Mall area in shadow" mean concerning height limits? I have a basic understanding of FAR, as well (just a little math, right?), so I could try to factor that in, as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

Was this an actual massing study for a potential developer/investment group? Stupid question I guess, as everything you've said indicates you were just doing this for fun.

Not stupid at all, I think. Wouldn't it be interesting if a little internet project like this could get the attention of some actual professional architects and companies with funding? A web forum-driven speculative high-rise construction project!

SnyderBock · #**269** Posted **Oct 19, 2009, 7:38 AM**

A recent project proposal backed up Donald Trumph was planned near your proposed location. It was in the 400' foot restriction zone, right there on the edge of where no limit exists. They requested and received a zoning variance to allow them to construct a 600'+ Trump Tower in that 400' zone. The recession hit and the project was canceled. My point being, there is a small chance that buildings over the 400' limit can be built in that zone, if they are close to the boarder of the non-restricted zone and are deemed a worthy addition to downtown.

If you notice that little spur of blue (no height restricted zone) that wraps around the southern end of the green (400' height limit zone). That is where Wells Fargo Center is.

DenverInfill · #**270** Posted **Oct 19, 2009, 4:16 PM**

The "% of 16th Street Mall in Shadow" overlay between 15th and 16th regulates, based on complicated formula, the height and orientation of buildings in that area so that at a certain point in time during the year there is not too much of the 16th Street Mall covered in shadow cast by the building in question.

QuarterMileSidewalk · #**271** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 1:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

If you notice that little spur of blue (no height restricted zone) that wraps around the southern end of the green (400' height limit zone). That is where Wells Fargo Center is.

Gotta respectfully disagree with you there... Near as I can tell, the unrestricted zone spur is between Colfax and 16th, but WF is up another block, on the north side of 17th, which is definitely in the 400' zone. But, like you mentioned with the Trump example, exceptions can certainly be made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The "% of 16th Street Mall in Shadow" overlay between 15th and 16th regulates, based on complicated formula, the height and orientation of buildings in that area so that at a certain point in time during the year there is not too much of the 16th Street Mall covered in shadow cast by the building in question.

Gotcha, thanks.

covertb · #**272** Posted **Oct 21, 2009, 9:39 PM**

DenverInfill, thanks for the B-5 zoning map. This is a perfect answer for what I was wondering about the height restrictions. I am glad to see that there are parts of downtown where buildings can be built with no limits on height restrictions.

mr1138 · #**273** Posted **Oct 21, 2009, 10:58 PM**

Actually, that little spur of blue is the Civic Center bus station and the block next to it. According to that map, the Cash Register is in the green, 400 foot zone. This of course asks the question... how did that happen? Were these zoning requirements not in place at the time it was built? Or did it get some kind of variance like Trump was seeking?

pablosan · #**274** Posted **Nov 27, 2009, 11:31 PM**

Wow, has there been any updates?

SnyderBock · #**275** Posted **Dec 4, 2009, 1:47 AM**

I don't feel like updating it... I will try and throw one together soon. Here is your photo and the other posters photo from the other thread, where I resized them to make a better comparison. Thanks for taking these shots guys...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

I resized and cropped ya'll's photos, so that they are a near match in size. This way we can put them next to each other to better see the change in the skyline. Here they are...

~1 year Ago:

November 2009:

rds70 · #**276** Posted **Dec 6, 2009, 8:33 PM**

A pano shot for your viewing pleasure:

pablosan · #**277** Posted **Dec 6, 2009, 9:56 PM**

What an excellent pano.

PEORIA · #**278** Posted **Jan 2, 2010, 9:35 PM**

Yes!.... And, what great density Denver's skyline is achieving.

rds70 · #**279** Posted **Jan 9, 2010, 1:23 AM**

A pano from a different angle on a cold January day:

SnyderBock · #**280** Posted **Jan 9, 2010, 3:16 AM**

Here's your same photo cropped down a little and resized to show the skyline in it's entirety (without scrolling) from that vantage point.
Is it ok for me to leave this cropped down version posted here? I like this look at the skyline: