Differences between states in multi-state metros

[TexasPlaya]

Nothing y'all are saying is registering....

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by Nomad9

What part of the authenticity would you dispute? Maryland, Delaware, or both?

I'm a relative newcomer to the region (two years), so I feel unqualified to speak on the subject. But IME, northern Delaware simultaneously feels like it is and is not part of Philly.

On one hand: Wilmington is fewer than 25 miles as the crow flies from Philly city hall (as close or closer than Tacoma to Seattle, Ft. Worth to Dallas, Ft. Lauderdale to Miami, or Palo Alto to San Francisco); everyone uses the Philly airport; we share a regional rail system (SEPTA) and local TV and radio stations; and the built environments, demographics, and cultures are very similar (try to walk five minutes in Wilmington without seeing Eagles, Phillies, etc. attire). Both cities are heavily democratic. A lot of people who live here have also lived in/near both cities, or commute between them. It's also not unusual to see Philly-themed advertising in New Castle County (e.g., a beer ad with "Philly Proud" or something).

On the other: Wilmington is the largest city in a separate state (well, separate since 1776) and it has its own non-rail transit systems; the city developed independently of Philly and has its own unique history, industries, and suburban communities; it has separate newspapers and state-specific magazines; if you ask a local where they're from, they'd say "Delaware" or "Wilmington," not the "Philly Area."

Just a very different vibe from what I'm used to in the sunbelt, where almost any part of the MSA within 30 miles is just a pure suburban extension of the primary city.

Cecil County, Maryland, definitely does not feel like it is part of Philadelphia. Any commuting to "Philadelphia" is commuting to New Castle County, which is part of the Philadelphia metro because of New Castle County's commuting patterns.

I agree with you on New Castle County. Wilmington and Newark are the center of their own metro area that makes up northern Delaware. There is certainly a connection, but most peoples' lives here in Delaware revolve around things in Delaware, not in Pennsylvania. I personally think Wilmington should be its own MSA inside the Philadelphia CSA, like Reading or Trenton (and Trenton is closer to Philadelphia's city limits than Wilmington is).

[Crawford]

Trenton isn't part of Philly CSA. Distance to core has no bearing on any of the Census classifications (MSA, CSA and Urban Area).

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

Cecil County, Maryland, definitely does not feel like it is part of Philadelphia. Any commuting to "Philadelphia" is commuting to New Castle County, which is part of the Philadelphia metro because of New Castle County's commuting patterns.

I agree with you on New Castle County. Wilmington and Newark are the center of their own metro area that makes up northern Delaware. There is certainly a connection, but most peoples' lives here in Delaware revolve around things in Delaware, not in Pennsylvania. I personally think Wilmington should be its own MSA inside the Philadelphia CSA, like Reading or Trenton (and Trenton is closer to Philadelphia's city limits than Wilmington is).

This is cool to learn from a local. I always assumed the Wilmington-Philly relationship was like the Worcester-Boston one, but you’re describing more of a Providence-Boston relationship. Which makes sense, given that Wilmington and Philadelphia are in different states.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by JManc

The "Bucket" is losing the Sox? Seriously?

Yup, moving to Worcester. The new stadium is just starting construction and should be ready for the 2021 season.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

I haven't been to Lowell since 2001 and I really want to see it now.

The transformation has been remarkable. Nearly 5,000 new residents in and around the Canal District in just the past 5 years, not including all the additional new students at the adjacent, expanding UMass Lowell campus. Those converted mill lofts are sexy.

Pawtucket has similar potential, if they could ever get their act together. I’m afraid they’ll miss out on the current boom happening in Mass and NH cities outside the Boston urban core; Worcester (!) is booming, Haverhill is booming, Nashua continues to grow steadily, New Bedford is now nationally hot and becoming “Portland South” in terms of restaurants. Even Fall River is growing again and recently scored a massive Amazon logistics center. Rhode Island can never seem to get their shit together in time to fully benefit from Boston overflow, whereas New Hampshire has that down to a science.

[liat91]

For NJ, the NY CSA portion is broken up into the Shore, Route 1 Corridor, Urban NE and the expansive West Metro.

The Shore and West Metro are the least diverse and the Urban NE the most. The West Metro is the wealthiest and prettiest. Urban NE tilted more East Asian and Route 1 corridor more South Asian. Hispanics have significant populations in all but the Shore.

Boundaries being;

Shore-
East: Atlantic Ocean
North: Raritan Bay
West: Freehold
South: Southern Ocean County

Route 1 Corridor-
East: Arthur Kill
North: Route 22
West: Delaware River
South: Raritan River - Trenton

Urban NE-
East: Hudson River
North: Rockland County border
West: Garden State Parkway
South: Route 22 - Woodbridge

West Metro-
East: Garden State Parkway
North: Orange County border
West: Delaware River
South: Route 22 - Sourland Mts


Nassau and to a lesser extent, Suffolk is getting colonized by Queens and Westchester and Fairfield are much harder for the Bronx to consume, relatively.

[BillM]

Originally Posted by BillM

So their vote didn't matter in the presidential election, but a vast geographical area that is deeply red (or Blue) has to have some effect outside of politics.

Originally Posted by Crawford

Land doesn't vote. So even if Illinois geography is overwhelmingly red (as would be true with almost all states, excepting the tiny urbanized ones like CT, MA, NJ), it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Such as?

Culture?

[Steely Dan]

^ illinois is really two states: chicagoland and downstate.

it's not terribly dissimilar from the NYC/upstate dichotomy found in new york state, with the exception that downstate illinois doesn't have a whole lot to attract chicagoland weekenders (we primarily go to wisconsin and michigan for that sort of thing), so the city/downstate divide in illinois is even more pronounced (less interaction).

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

Cecil County, Maryland, definitely does not feel like it is part of Philadelphia. Any commuting to "Philadelphia" is commuting to New Castle County, which is part of the Philadelphia metro because of New Castle County's commuting patterns.

I agree with you on New Castle County. Wilmington and Newark are the center of their own metro area that makes up northern Delaware. There is certainly a connection, but most peoples' lives here in Delaware revolve around things in Delaware, not in Pennsylvania. I personally think Wilmington should be its own MSA inside the Philadelphia CSA, like Reading or Trenton (and Trenton is closer to Philadelphia's city limits than Wilmington is).

Cecil County, MD feels farther removed than other counties, but I definitely count it as a part of Philly's MSA. Newark is at the DE/MD border, which enables people living in MD to commute to either Newark, Wilmington, or Philadelphia. One could easily live in Elkton, travel a few miles up MD/DE 279, park their car, and hop on a morning express to Philly. Also, consider the fact that commuting from Elkton to the city is only one mile less than commuting from Quakertown to the city.

Ultimately, due to the fact that Cecil County is in our MSA, I think that SEPTA should consider extending the Wilmington/Newark Line to Perryville (or at least Elkton).