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  #81  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2012, 7:14 PM
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I decided to check the area in Google Earth and now I too feel that it isn't really worth it to destroy this building when there are others that are more suited to take its place. Like, for instance, the box just across the street.




If they are going with the idea of turning Vanderbilt Avenue into a street plaza, a good street life must be kept. Like at the existing Madison Avenue and 42nd Street.



Now look at its neighbor



Which do you prefer? Now, I'm not trying to say the city can't grow, but I would rather keep a prewar treasure than some 60/70s box if they are on the same street.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2012, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
IWhich do you prefer? Now, I'm not trying to say the city can't grow, but I would rather keep a prewar treasure than some 60/70s box if they are on the same street.
Again, you're takinig this off topic into the preservation discussion. That's another thread. But the comparisons are pointless anyway because we don't even know what's getting built yet. As far as keeping Vanderbilt lively, it will be livelier than it is now with the expected added population to the area's streets, from not only this skyscraper and others, but also the added influx from the new LIRR terminal at Grand Central.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2012, 11:03 PM
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Again, you're takinig this off topic into the preservation discussion. That's another thread. But the comparisons are pointless anyway because we don't even know what's getting built yet. As far as keeping Vanderbilt lively, it will be livelier than it is now with the expected added population to the area's streets, from not only this skyscraper and others, but also the added influx from the new LIRR terminal at Grand Central.
I know, but I just wanted to state my opinion. I was okay with the plan before but when I saw the other building in the vicinity, I got a little doubtful. There was another building much more ready to be a candidate for demolition. Hopefully the new tower may have a similar feel at street level. Well, at least Grand Central is here.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2012, 12:44 AM
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I know, but I just wanted to state my opinion. I was okay with the plan before but when I saw the other building in the vicinity, I got a little doubtful. There was another building much more ready to be a candidate for demolition. Hopefully the new tower may have a similar feel at street level. Well, at least Grand Central is here.
Actually funny story about the building you posted, the "60's 70's box" is actually formally a beautiful pre-war hotel, something like the drake or the hotel pennsylvania, but in the mid 80s it was totally super gutted and retrofitted to become this bland pos. Needless to say though I too hope for its demise instead of the previously selected site for development.

Same thing for the 'glass' tower on the other side of grand central, also formally a prewar hotel, retrofitted with a glass facade.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2012, 3:09 AM
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I know, but I just wanted to state my opinion.
Yes, and as you can see from the post that immediately follows your last, the discussion was taken off course.


Meanwhile, the ultimate form this tower will take depends on a lot of what the City will allow to be built here, and that process is moving forward:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...010664218.html

By LAURA KUSISTO And ELIOT BROWN

July 11, 2012
By LAURA KUSISTO And ELIOT BROWN

Quote:

City officials Wednesday unveiled a long-awaited plan to encourage developers to build new office skyscrapers in the aging district near Grand Central Terminal by allowing them to build higher and denser.

"It is critical that East Midtown's stature as one of the premier business addresses in the world be maintained over time, said City Planning Commission Chairwoman Amanda Burden. "We are therefore pursuing ways to incentivize over the next 20 years the development of a handful of state-of-the-art office buildings…that will build on the dynamic strength of the area."

Under the plan, which must be approved by the City Council, developers could build more if they pay for architecture with the swagger of London's Shard or Shanghai Tower. Those projects would still require approval by the City Planning Commission and City Council. But developers also would have to pay for the right to build big: either by purchasing privately owned air rights over Grand Central Terminal or by contributing to a fund to pay for infrastructure upgrades. This fund would do such things as build additional stairways to access the subway platforms in Grand Central and a pedestrian mall on Vanderbilt Avenue.


It seems SL Green is ahead of the game here, as they have already talked of bonus rights by tying this development into Grand Central...

Quote:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3125...ent-transcript

As part of the transfer, New York City will require us to perform improvements to MTA's pedestrian circulation. We are giving serious consideration to leveraging this requirement by creating a direct connection to Grand Central terminal. One huge advantage of our location is the proximity to one of the most significant transportation hubs in New York City, providing direct access to Metro-North and subways including the Times Square shuttle, the 4, 5, 6 and 7 trains. We also expect to potentially tie in 2 other ongoing projects; the 2nd Avenue subway, where transfer options are under evaluation, and the east side access, which will link the Long Island Railroad and New Jersey transit to Grand Central. This increase to the site will exponentially enhance the intrinsic value of this particular location. The connection we are considering would be an amenity that would allow someone coming into Grand Central to walk through an underground tunnel beneath Vanderbilt Avenue and arrive at our proposed building without ever having to step a foot outside.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2012, 12:04 AM
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http://observer.com/2012/07/how-abou...east-rezoning/

How About Another Empire State Building or Two? City Outlines Mega Midtown East Rezoning


An illustrative illustration created by the city of a new tower near the terminal.


July 12, 2012
By Matt Chaban

Quote:
It is big. No, really big. Bigger than almost anything the city has ever seen. Empire State Building big. While that will not be the case for every tower that is eventually built through the program, it could be for at least a few.

The parameters, unveiled at Community Board 5 last night, are close to what had been previously hinted at, an area stretching from 39th Street up to 57th Street, emanating out from Grand Central. Fifth Avenue has been eliminated from the original study area, as has the northern reaches of Third and Lexington avenues, which were considered too residential. Still, the plan affects all or part of 74 blocks in the heart of the city. Far fewer of them will be developed because a provision in the plan limits development sites to only those that stretch the length of an entire avenue blockfront, and they must sit on a site that covers at least 25,000 square feet, or a little more than half an acre.

Surrounding avenues will see their density bumped up slightly, from a floor area ratio of 15 to 18 (excuse the technical numbers for a moment). Park Avenue and the Grand Central subdistrict, which will expand one block north to 49th Street and two blocks south to 39th Street, between Madison and Lexington Avenues, will have an FAR of 21.6. A new Grand Central core district will be created for the blocks immediately around Grand Central with an FAR of 24.

All these big new buildings can be built as of right, meaning no cumbersome public reviews. But should a developer wish to aim high, really high, they can go for an additional FAR bonus, a jump to 24 along Park and around Grand Central, while the Grand Central core subdistrict, the eleven small blocks around the train station, jumps up to a whopping 30 FAR, on par with the skyline defining Empire State Building (FAR of 33, the only thing in town that comes close). As if to drive this point home, City Planning’s presentation showed a spindly tower, which looked not unlike the MoMA tower it once rejected, piercing the skyline above Grand Central.

One of the biggest issues was the decision to allow bigger buildings if their designs were deemed to be of sufficient quality. There was widespread concern about who would determine that—the City Planning Commission and the City Council—and why every building in the district should not be held to the same standard if Midtown was so important to begin with, as the city officials kept insisting. “Thirty FAR scares the hell out of me,” board member Miele Rockefeller said. Member Matthew Scheid countered that “I’m fine with 30 FAR, but I don’t understand why it’s not 40 FAR or 25 FAR. You haven’t explained the rationale for the numbers.” There were also widespread concerns about whether the sale of development rights would be sufficient to cover the costs of the needed improvements. “The city paid for the improvements to Times Square,” land-use vice-chair Giuseppe Scalia pointed out. “Why are developers being given millions of square feet to do it here?”


Looks an awful lot like the MoMA Tower, which the Department of City Planning famously reduced in size.



All of this new development would go to funding public space improvements, like better subway stations and the rather controversial pedestrianization of Vanderbilt Avenue, pictured here.



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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...d-central.html

New York City May Allow Taller Towers Near Grand Central

By David M. Levitt
Jul 12, 2012


Quote:
Development of skyscrapers taller than the Chrysler Building may be allowed near Manhattan’s Grand Central Terminal under preliminary zoning plans presented by New York’s Department of City Planning.

A tower that high -- possibly as tall as 1,200 feet (366 meters) -- would have to go through a city review to assure that it’s a worthy addition to the New York skyline, said Frank Ruchala, the planning department’s east Midtown project manager. The Chrysler Building is 1,046 feet tall. Ruchala spoke last night at a meeting of Community Board 5, which represents midtown Manhattan residents.

SL Green in November paid about $80 million for a building on East 42nd Street, just west of Grand Central, giving it ownership of the entire block bounded by Madison, 42nd and 43rd streets and Vanderbilt Avenue. It’s “the single best potential development site in the city, if not the world,” Isaac Zion, the company’s co-chief investment officer, said at an investor meeting in December. The company has no comment on the rezoning initiative, Rick Matthews, a spokesman for SL Green, said today.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2012, 11:58 PM
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1200 feet? I thought this could possibly be the tallest in NYC?

It also looks horrible, hopefully that's just a placeholder.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2012, 1:53 AM
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1200 feet? I thought this could possibly be the tallest in NYC?

It also looks horrible, hopefully that's just a placeholder.
Geez, read the articles first.

There is no specific height limit. It depends on a variety of issues.

And obviously that rendering isn't for a specific planned project.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2012, 1:21 PM
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Great read - the support for this initiative seems to be widening.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2012, 9:12 PM
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Well, I think that SL Green wants to build a tower like these on the site.

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  #91  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2012, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sky88 View Post
Well, I think that SL Green wants to build a tower like these on the site.

i sure hope so because at least we could get one of the top 10 tallest in the world
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  #92  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2012, 11:38 PM
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Well, I think that SL Green wants to build a tower like these on the site.
Yeah, I can see that too. For some reason, I have a feeling it'll look more like the second one.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2012, 4:39 AM
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So how tall could this be?
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  #94  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2012, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Arawooho View Post
Yeah, I can see that too. For some reason, I have a feeling it'll look more like the second one.
I hope it's more like the third one. I don't know why that building is so elegant to me. I must be due to the perfectly placed setbacks! It would pay homage to the setbacks on the Empire State.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2012, 9:23 PM
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Yes, the third one is my definite winner!
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  #96  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2012, 2:34 AM
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Third is beautiful
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  #97  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2012, 12:29 PM
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So how tall could this be?
There are no height limits, but the maximum floor-area-ratio is 30.

You could build the tallest building in the city here, but it would have to win design approval from the city.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2012, 11:34 PM
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There are no height limits, but the maximum floor-area-ratio is 30. You could build the tallest building in the city here, but it would have to win design approval from the city.

Yes, it appears so, and that may well be the case. The max as of right will be 24, but with a special permit (and starchitecture) that jumps to 30.

Also, everyone should keep in mind that when speaking of height in "zoning terms" you are basically talking about floor area. For example, a building with the floor area
to rise 50 floors will mean the same thing in zoning terms today as it did 50 years ago. But obviously a 50 floor office tower today would be much taller for various reasons.

Meanwhile, heavy emphasis is being put on the sites closest to Grand Central, and its no coincidence that this site in particular is used as an example.

From some of the early documents of MIDTOWN EAST:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/eas...wn/index.shtml















An example shows a tower rising on the SL Green site...







(on a side note, its funny that the Tower Verre serves as such inspiration for the skyline)
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  #99  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2012, 1:28 AM
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Originally Posted by NYguy;5768522[img
http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/144818158/original.jpg[/img]

(on a side note, its funny that the Tower Verre serves as such inspiration for the skyline)
Wow that is ridiculous. If they liked it so much, then why did they chop its head off.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2012, 8:50 PM
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Wow that is ridiculous. If they liked it so much, then why did they chop its head off.
Where was the initial area this was going to go again?
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