Economy Thread

[Kokkei Mizu]

Nice story. I hope that this happens as well. London looks pathetically small from the 401.

Also, what was this last line about? It didn't appear in the article when I followed the link... Is it another article?

Originally Posted by haljackey

401/402 interchange: City has asked Ontario for $40-million to upgrade 401 interchange at Veterans Memorial Parkway, create new one at Wonderland Rd

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../17037376.html

[Highinthesky]

Vets interchange is horrible and should be redone.

I love what Joe has been doing since being elected. First the suggesting London adopt KW's idea of a fund being used to attract business to London and now this. My only concern is that these all require large sums of money and his election promise of a tax rate freeze, which he seem intent on delivering, might hamper these other ideas. Of course the one thing no one has mentioned during this tax rate freeze talk is that due to MPAC now phasing in people's assessment the city can freeze or even decrease rates and their tax revenues, and people's tax bills, will continue to rise.

[Pimpmasterdac]

I asked Fontana at his virtual town hall about making VMP a full expressway, which he seemed very enthused and committed to for attracting business. As well with this proposal of 401/402 area development sounds like City Hall finally has a Mayor with a vision and strategy of how to bring business and jobs to London!

I know the nay-sayers will whine and complain about LTC service being reduced while development of this area and the millions of $$$ needed for it. Hopefully we don't have another council with a vision of a small-quiet London, but one that encourages growth, development and expansion!

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

My comments:

I'm a huge proponent in developing these areas and am glad to see the media/city talking about it.

Let me list the advantages of extending the urban growth boundary south to accommodate the 401 and 402 corridors:

-Makes London look bigger to those passing by the town. Ask any average Joe outside Southwest Ontario and they'll tell you London has like 50,000 people and don't know a single thing about the city.

-Adds jobs to one of the hardest hit Canadian cities from the recession. Jobs will be created developing these lands, constructing the buildings and working in the buildings.

-Strategic location. Nearly all industry wants to locate near a major transport corridor to maximize efficiency and minimize costs. Does the city and its residents want transport trucks heavily using arterials? (just look at Highbury!) Building close to highways keeps the trucks off our streets and is more attractive to the developer/business.

-Improving interchanges. London does not have a highway for local traffic, so improving/building more interchanges to the 401 and 402 should a priority, especially since a big chunk of funding comes from the province/MTO. Wonderland/401 is seriously needed, and improvements to the VMP are warranted if it remains a free-flowing interchange (no intersections!).

The LEDC has been pushing this for years. Let's hope the city gets behind it and gets'er done. This should have been completed decades ago.

Thanks for posting this as I missed it completely.

I agree 100% the area south of the 401 is begging to be developed, as you mentioned this would also help keep trucks off roads like Highbury as more industrial would move towards the 401/402 areas.

Hopefully the 401/Wonderland and VMP/401 interchanges will be the first step in getting this accomplished.

I never understood why so many years ago whenever this boundary limit was put in place who in their right mind agreed to it? You would think having the 401 close to the centre of the city would be a good idea if for nothing other than traffic flow.

[MolsonExport]

Time to fricken expand the infrastructure around the existing economic drivers of London. Have you experienced the gridlock that is the roadscape around UWO in the mornings/evenings? Takes goddamn 15-20 minutes to get out of Springett Parking Lot.

[haljackey]

Ok big reply:

Originally Posted by Kokkei Mizu

Nice story. I hope that this happens as well. London looks pathetically small from the 401.

Also, what was this last line about? It didn't appear in the article when I followed the link... Is it another article?

That's from a spin-off article: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../17037386.html

In fact there were two spin-off articles yesterday. Another relating to the city's economy is here: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../17037391.html

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

Vets interchange is horrible and should be redone.

I love what Joe has been doing since being elected. First the suggesting London adopt KW's idea of a fund being used to attract business to London and now this. My only concern is that these all require large sums of money and his election promise of a tax rate freeze, which he seem intent on delivering, might hamper these other ideas. Of course the one thing no one has mentioned during this tax rate freeze talk is that due to MPAC now phasing in people's assessment the city can freeze or even decrease rates and their tax revenues, and people's tax bills, will continue to rise.

Be careful what you wish for. While the VMP/401 interchange could be better, the city is proposing replacing the free-flowing trumpet design with a parclo, which is not free-flowing. That's easily the cheapest way to extend it south, but will kill any plans on making the VMP a full freeway.

-Imagine, when the VMP is fully built, it has interchanges with everything but intersections with the 401. How stupid is that?

-I'd like to propose an alternative design to a standard parclo for the VMP/401. That way it can remain free-flowing and can get extended south.

This design is one of the cheapest four-way free-flowing interchanges out there. (Aside from the cloverleaf, of course.) As long as space isn't an issue (there's no development near the 401/VMP yet) it can easily get built.


I've also liked Joe so far. London's just that more interesting of a place with him as mayor. The only thing I don't get is he is proposing all this new stuff but he still wants a tax freeze. You can't have your cake and eat it too if you know what I mean... there has to be a way to pay for all this.

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

I asked Fontana at his virtual town hall about making VMP a full expressway, which he seemed very enthused and committed to for attracting business. As well with this proposal of 401/402 area development sounds like City Hall finally has a Mayor with a vision and strategy of how to bring business and jobs to London!

Ask just about anyone and they'll tell you they want the VMP to get upgraded from the current at-grade expressway to a grade-separated freeway. Same thing goes for extending it to Clarke Road and making that a freeway to Fanshawe Park Road or Sunningdale.

Most seem to be in favor of this because London doesn't have a freeway for local traffic and many want to see one put in. Do traffic demands warrant it? They will. Will it be worth it? It will be, but where on earth will we get the money from? The Ontario Ministry of Transportation "downloaded" the former Highway 100 to the city so there's no help there except for a 401 interchange upgrade, and a tax freeze means the city doesn't have any extra cash to spare.

Upgrading the VMP to a freeway would do wonders for our city image and the local economy. You don't hear that much these days... freeways are usually a negative thing elsewhere.

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

Thanks for posting this as I missed it completely.

I agree 100% the area south of the 401 is begging to be developed, as you mentioned this would also help keep trucks off roads like Highbury as more industrial would move towards the 401/402 areas.

Hopefully the 401/Wonderland and VMP/401 interchanges will be the first step in getting this accomplished.

I never understood why so many years ago whenever this boundary limit was put in place who in their right mind agreed to it? You would think having the 401 close to the centre of the city would be a good idea if for nothing other than traffic flow.

No problem! I knew people here would enjoy the read so I posted it here.

Yeah whoever put the urban growth boundary north of the 401/402 wasn't thinking straight. I could see the section of 401 west of the 402 not included as the route veers to a NE/SW orientation, but to see nearly all of the corridor avoided is nuts. If it wasn't for development already in place south of Wellington/401, I doubt any of the urban growth boundary would go near the 401/402 corridors.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Time to fricken expand the infrastructure around the existing economic drivers of London. Have you experienced the gridlock that is the roadscape around UWO in the mornings/evenings? Takes goddamn 15-20 minutes to get out of Springett Parking Lot.

Western Road between Patts Lane and Oxford Street isn't slated to be completed until 2020! That's a long way off, but at least the project has now been listed. I could see the project pushed back even further if CP doesn't want to comply coughing up dough to extend/replace the rail overpass.

Even with the Western Road widening between UWO and Richmond complete, traffic is a nightmare. It's due to capacity and design issues elsewhere. Sarnia Road is planned to get widened from 3 (why?) to 4 lanes in a couple years. That work should have been done long ago.... why have 2 lanes one way and 1 the other? If it was just made 2x2 in the first place we wouldn't have to do all this construction crap again. What a waste of time and money.


------------------


A new article regarding this issue was in the Free Press today. I'll link it rather than copy it here cuz my post is already crazy-long: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../17049411.html

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by sandy levin

Sandy Levin also raises questions about the 401/402 push, which appears to focus on attracting manufacturers.

“Are we still making the right decision about targeting the manufacturing sector in this day and age?” he asked.

“Build me the case — maybe then I’ll agree. But it’s like the old saying, ‘I’m from Missouri — show me.’”

Just a small section from the article...this person is a moron. This is why things in London never get done because you have people creating road blocks for no reason.

[Highinthesky]

Well there is way to have your cake and eat it too. As I alluded to in my post above, the city can freeze the tax rate and still have an overall tax base increase year to year because of MPAC's new phased in assessments. Other smaller municipalities in the are like Central Elgin have taken advantage of this for PR in the form of actually decreasing the tax rate while still achieving an overall tax base increase.

This is why I said it was never made very clear during the campaign whether Joe was talking about a tax rate freeze or an actual tax freeze.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Be careful what you wish for. While the VMP/401 interchange could be better, the city is proposing replacing the free-flowing trumpet design with a parclo, which is not free-flowing. That's easily the cheapest way to extend it south, but will kill any plans on making the VMP a full freeway.

The City cannot build an interchange on the 401 as that belongs to the province. If the province knows that the city is going to upgrade the VMP to a full freeway, I highly doubt they would build a parclo.

[haljackey]

Highinthesky and MrSlippery519: Good points. I don't want our city to go broke and put up roadblocks for no reason. We need to stop bickering and move forward to create a prosperous economy.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

The City cannot build an interchange on the 401 as that belongs to the province. If the province knows that the city is going to upgrade the VMP to a full freeway, I highly doubt they would build a parclo.

While the ultimate decision lies with the MTO, London has actually proposed a parclo-A4 interchange for VMP/401. This is a horrible plan and I hope the MTO rejects it and the city comes to its senses.

See here for the design (page 1).
http://www.london.ca/Transportation/...-PIC_PLANS.pdf

Option 1 is basically to keep the trumpet interchange as-is. This prevents the VMP from being extended south.

Option 2 has the trumpet turned into a parclo. This allows for southward expansion but creates intersections on the VMP.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Highinthesky and MrSlippery519: Good points. I don't want our city to go broke and put up roadblocks for no reason. We need to stop bickering and move forward to create a prosperous economy.



While the ultimate decision lies with the MTO, London has actually proposed a parclo-A4 interchange for VMP/401. This is a horrible plan and I hope the MTO rejects it and the city comes to its senses.

See here for the design (page 1).
http://www.london.ca/Transportation/...-PIC_PLANS.pdf

Option 1 is basically to keep the trumpet interchange as-is. This prevents the VMP from being extended south.

Option 2 has the trumpet turned into a parclo. This allows for southward expansion but creates intersections on the VMP.

Highbury is a Parclo, and I can't think of that interchange ever being a problem based on design. What's wrong with a Parclo A4 for the VMP?

You should come out to BC, and see what a joke highway building is out here. You got it so good in Ontario - so good, it's one of the biggest things I miss out there.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Highbury is a Parclo, and I can't think of that interchange ever being a problem based on design. What's wrong with a Parclo A4 for the VMP?

You should come out to BC, and see what a joke highway building is out here. You got it so good in Ontario - so good, it's one of the biggest things I miss out there.

Highbury used to be a cloverleaf interchange. It was modified to a parclo for a number of reasons.
-To get rid of the weaving and safety issues cloverleafs have.
-To allow a 6 lane Highway 401 pass underneath. The 401 used to be 4 lanes with a weave lane in each direction.
-The freeway plan for Highbury past Hamilton Road was canceled. The province deemed Highbury (then Highway 126) would never be a freeway and classified it as an expressway. This allowed them to add intersections at this interchange to add a junction with Bradley Avenue (interchange would be too close to the 401 by freeway standards).
-Cost. Modifying the cloverleaf to a parclo would be relatively cheap as it involved no new overpasses, ramps or land acquisition.

B.C. has been behind the ball compared to the rest of the country when it comes to highway infrastructure, but London is not a shining example either.

Currently the Highway 1 / Port Mann Bridge project in Metro Vancouver and its related components is by far the biggest infrastructure project going on in the country. Have a look at the plan here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...489565&page=97

Anyways getting a bit off topic here, but that's why I don't want a parclo at VMP/401. It still has potential unlike Highbury.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Highinthesky and MrSlippery519: Good points. I don't want our city to go broke and put up roadblocks for no reason. We need to stop bickering and move forward to create a prosperous economy.

I think that is the key, hopefully all involved can agree this is in fact needed there is no logical reason to not want it. So that said lets get a plan in place to make it happen. Seems like the Mayor is really pushing the issue which is great to hear.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Highbury is a Parclo, and I can't think of that interchange ever being a problem based on design. What's wrong with a Parclo A4 for the VMP?

The VMP is going to eventually be a freeway, and may be extended southward as a freeway - especially if the Port Stanley-Cleveland freeway comes to fruition. It would be counterproductive to drive on a freeway from London Airport to St. Thomas and have to stop at traffic lights at the 401.

[ericlewis91]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Time to fricken expand the infrastructure around the existing economic drivers of London. Have you experienced the gridlock that is the roadscape around UWO in the mornings/evenings? Takes goddamn 15-20 minutes to get out of Springett Parking Lot.

have you noticed from going to wonderland to adelaide down fanshawe takes like 20 minutes, when I first moved here in 94 it took 2mins

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Ask just about anyone and they'll tell you they want the VMP to get upgraded from the current at-grade expressway to a grade-separated freeway. Same thing goes for extending it to Clarke Road and making that a freeway to Fanshawe Park Road or Sunningdale.

Most seem to be in favor of this because London doesn't have a freeway for local traffic and many want to see one put in. Do traffic demands warrant it? They will. Will it be worth it? It will be, but where on earth will we get the money from? The Ontario Ministry of Transportation "downloaded" the former Highway 100 to the city so there's no help there except for a 401 interchange upgrade, and a tax freeze means the city doesn't have any extra cash to spare.

Upgrading the VMP to a freeway would do wonders for our city image and the local economy. You don't hear that much these days... freeways are usually a negative thing elsewhere.

The other question I asked Fontana related to road upgrades, specifically the planned widening Sarnia, Commissioners & Southdale Roads to Wonderland within the next 2-3 years and if these timetables were feasible given his promise to freeze taxes.

Fontana said he agreed that these roads were horrible and def needed to be widened ASAP. His tax freeze wouldn't affect road infrastructure projects as the city has and will get capital loans to finance these projects, as well as money from senior levels of government.

Fontana seemed sincere in his reply to my questions, I really hope that these widening, VMP made a full freeway as well as 401/402 area development to occur. It really is a fresh change to have someone leading London with a decisive view, rather than AMDB and her "best & brightest" speeches with no real vision or leadership on anything that could be contentious.

Infrastructure development is needed, good to see Joe bring London into being a more modern city!

[Simpseatles]

Ya, we really need to develop more industrial lands along the 401/402. However I can think of 2 major industrial parks that are currently being built along the VMP right now (Dancor around Huron and Crumlin, and the one around Bradley and VMP) so I'm not sure if the demand is really there. VMP is more of our industrial corridor so it should really be upgraded to an expressway.

While I'd rather see industrial growth along the 401 to make our city look a bigger (one might assume Woodstock is larger judging by visible industry ), I just don't think you can count out these new industrial areas.

[ldoto]

Rieter Automotive is on a hiring blitz.

The London automotive parts plant is more than doubling its workforce — to 300 from 140 — while it supplies some of the industry’s hottest-selling vehicles. And it’s not alone.

Observers say the London region’s manufacturing sector is on the upswing, and several plants are adding workers.

“People here are pretty happy,” Bert Briley, Canadian Auto Workers Local 27 unit chairperson, said Thursday. “We’re ecstatic. We are feeling now like there is some security to our future.”

The Huron St. plant employed about 140 in the fall, but may more than double that, topping 300 by the spring as orders take off and a new collective agreement lowers costs.

“It is a real recognition of the quality of the product that is made there,” said Tim Carrie, Local 27 president. “There are a lot of job opportunities.”

It’s so busy it’s moving shipping and receiving off-site to add production.

“It’s a nice problem to have, considering in 2008, when it was really bad, some weeks there were 10 of us here,” Briley said.

Rieter makes carpets for Ford, General Motors, Chrysler and Cami Automotive in Ingersoll.

Last year, the CAW bargained a collective agreement that dropped the entry-level wage to just more than $15 an hour, rising to $19.80 after four years.

“They reassured us we would get new jobs. They needed it to win the work,” Carrie said. “They have a very good reputation in the industry, winning quality awards year after year.”

Rieter Automotive Mastico, the company’s full name, also has a plant in Tillsonburg that employs more than 300.

The hiring is a sign the manufacturing sector is stabilizing after the downturn in 2008. Other London-area automotive plants — including Brose, Transform, Martinrea, StarlimSterner and Coopers Standard — are busy, and many adding workers.

“Everyone is feeling better right now,” said Jason Bates, with the London Region Manufacturing Council. “The optimism continues to rise here — work is flowing.”

norman.debono@sunmedia.ca

RIETER AUTOMOTIVE

Supplies carpet for:

Cami Automotive’s Equinox and Terrain

GM Oshawa’s Camaro and Impala

Ford Oakville’s Edge, Flex, Lincoln MKX

Chrysler’s Jeep Cherokee, built in Detroit, Mich.

Ford Focus built in Warren, Mich.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

The other question I asked Fontana related to road upgrades, specifically the planned widening Sarnia, Commissioners & Southdale Roads to Wonderland within the next 2-3 years and if these timetables were feasible given his promise to freeze taxes.

Fontana said he agreed that these roads were horrible and def needed to be widened ASAP. His tax freeze wouldn't affect road infrastructure projects as the city has and will get capital loans to finance these projects, as well as money from senior levels of government.

Fontana seemed sincere in his reply to my questions, I really hope that these widening, VMP made a full freeway as well as 401/402 area development to occur. It really is a fresh change to have someone leading London with a decisive view, rather than AMDB and her "best & brightest" speeches with no real vision or leadership on anything that could be contentious.

Infrastructure development is needed, good to see Joe bring London into being a more modern city!

Funny how Wonderland is the busiest road in the city yet everything that connects to it is terrible. I live between Commissioners and Southdale in Westmount and all I see on those roads around here is a traffic bottleneck. Commissioners is much more of a commuter route, its chronically congested where it narrows during the rush hours but seems to be half-decent at other times of the day. Southdale is not only a commuter route but a major commercial route as well. People are using it at all times of the day to get to stores, especially near Wonderland. Southdale is in much worse shape and should be widened before Comissioners but the latter will get done first.

As I've said before, London is a more interesting place with Joe in command. I like that.

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Ya, we really need to develop more industrial lands along the 401/402. However I can think of 2 major industrial parks that are currently being built along the VMP right now (Dancor around Huron and Crumlin, and the one around Bradley and VMP) so I'm not sure if the demand is really there. VMP is more of our industrial corridor so it should really be upgraded to an expressway.

While I'd rather see industrial growth along the 401 to make our city look a bigger (one might assume Woodstock is larger judging by visible industry ), I just don't think you can count out these new industrial areas.

These are all excellent points. Who authorized developing the industrial lands near the VMP when we have prime real estate along the busiest road in North America? I guess whoever did it because that land wasn't developable as it is outside the urban growth boundary.

Actually, the VMP is an expressway. I think you're getting the term mixed up with freeway... Both are limited access but expressways can have at-grade intersections, rail crossings, sidewalks, etc whereas freeways are for autos only and use grade-separated overpasses and interchanges along with other standards. Lets hope it's upgraded to freeway standards but I don't see this happening for at least a decade.

To the average passer-by, London looks like it has a couple warehouses and a Mcdonalds tower. What a great image. Lets make this better.

[Highinthesky]

The 401 stretch is going to get a little better even without movement from the city. On the north side of the 401 along the east side of Old Victoria Rd the city just finished servicing about 80 acres of land. On top of that they have approached the owner on the west side to purchase their property.