Transit Fantasies

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

There's plenty of places to put a ton of density around the stations I outlined, if the political will was there.

It isn't so it won't happen any time soon, but as the metro grows and densifies it will need to look to new areas to fill in and this could easily be one of them. It's not really much further from downtown than Brentwood/Holdom as the crow flies,so if it had easy transit access it should be a prime candidate for infill.

Ah but the will isn't there, which makes any thought of adding rail to the North Shore pure fantasy for the time being.

Having a Willingdon line from Metrotown to Brentwood, over to Kootenay Loop, and then to Phibbs and possibly something close to Capilano U is the most we're likely to get in the next few decades.

[YVR_Future]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Ah but the will isn't there, which makes any thought of adding rail to the North Shore pure fantasy for the time being.

Having a Willingdon line from Metrotown to Brentwood, over to Kootenay Loop, and then to Phibbs and possibly something close to Capilano U is the most we're likely to get in the next few decades.

Agreed. Political will, money, density, all those aren't there. North Van seems to have at least some of that. West Van? No, not at all.

[KPELLY]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Looking at a map I can't see there being enough density east of Phibbs - that makes Phibbs to Park Royal as the only area worth putting in Skytrain.

You can always use this topographic map (I don't have a math brain for figuring out grade percent).

Using that map...

~8.4% grade between Esplanade and Keith Rd.
~4% grade between Keith Rd and 15th St.

(for going straight up Lonsdale)

[waves]

I made some modifications and additions to LeftCoasters Map.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Ah but the will isn't there, which makes any thought of adding rail to the North Shore pure fantasy for the time being.

Hence why I posted it in the fantasy thread...

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Hence why I posted it in the fantasy thread...

There's fantasy that could become reality and then there's fantasy that will never happen in our lifetimes, if ever (aka magic pixie dust). Multi Skytrain lines on the North Shore is magic pixie dust.

One reason I check out this thread is for ideas I hadn't thought of before that give me ideas that are at least somewhat plausible. The only somewhat plausible idea I get from this is some sort of on-ground rail on the North Shore. (*runs for cover*)

[LeftCoaster]

I don't know how old you are but a lot can change in 60 or 70 years, especially in a city with demand pressure like Vancouver.

The skytrain map I pulled this from is called Vancouver 2060. Given what Vancouver, especially its suburbs, looked like 35 years ago I don't think this is magic pixie dust territory.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Exactly. We're supposed to get the Broadway and Langley extensions by 2030, and the Metro's supposed to grow to 5 million by 2050. A lot can happen between then and now.

Once again, Metcalfe's Law means that a network's value multiplies with each line added; more people + more infrastructure = more riders -> more money -> more upgrades -> more riders, and so on. Expect the window between SkyTrain projects to start shrinking from "every 7 years" to "every 4-5 years."

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Exactly. We're supposed to get the Broadway and Langley extensions by 2030, and the Metro's supposed to grow to 5 million by 2050. A lot can happen between then and now.

Once again, Metcalfe's Law means that a network's value multiplies with each line added; more people + more infrastructure = more riders -> more money -> more upgrades -> more riders, and so on. Expect the window between SkyTrain projects to start shrinking from "every 7 years" to "every 4-5 years."

I fantasize about the day where we can have multiple projects under construction at the same time, like Toronto or LA.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I fantasize about the day where we can have multiple projects under construction at the same time, like Toronto or LA.

I fantasize about the region being under a huge dome until the continents shift south and it warms up here. It's one fantasy I have that's PG13.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I don't know how old you are but a lot can change in 60 or 70 years, especially in a city with demand pressure like Vancouver.

The skytrain map I pulled this from is called Vancouver 2060. Given what Vancouver, especially its suburbs, looked like 35 years ago I don't think this is magic pixie dust territory.

My feeling is that a Park Royal-Phibbs line is the most practical line as it hits a large percentage of the current and future growth areas. I'd then look to see how feasible it would be to go up to the university and then back west to Lynn Valley, Lonsdale/23rd, and either Westview or Edgemont Village, finishing the loop at Park Royal. Build a streetcar line to tie the two Lonsdale stations together and have transit feed into the LRT stations, with additional use of the smaller vehicles to get better connections on the periphery of the service area. (For example, Capilano to Lynn Valley along Montroyal and Braemar, which takes a long time on the existing routes.)

[xd_1771]

Thought I'd just share this concept map I made of a future transit network in Metro Vancouver incorporating both an expanded SkyTrain network and "trackless train" style BRT routes. Originally I made this for a TransLink presentation, so the routes are rather rough and informal, but it's meant to be a sample of its potential. Future rapid transit (SkyTrain + SFU Gondola) are in dark grey, conceptual regular B-Line and rapid bus routes in light grey.

<img id="hzDownscaled" style="position: absolute; top: -10000px;">

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Thought I'd just share this concept map I made of a future transit network in Metro Vancouver incorporating both an expanded SkyTrain network and "trackless train" style BRT routes. Originally I made this for a TransLink presentation, so the routes are rather rough and informal, but it's meant to be a sample of its potential. Future rapid transit (SkyTrain + SFU Gondola) are in dark grey, conceptual regular B-Line and rapid bus routes in light grey.

<img id="hzDownscaled" style="position: absolute; top: -10000px;">

Why nothing going to south delta?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Why nothing going to south delta?

Because there isn't much density in South Delta.

I'm more concerned with the limited amount of coverage in Surrey, what with the large numbers of people moving there. A couple more 'coverage corridors' would make a big difference.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Thought I'd just share this concept map I made of a future transit network in Metro Vancouver incorporating both an expanded SkyTrain network and "trackless train" style BRT routes. Originally I made this for a TransLink presentation, so the routes are rather rough and informal, but it's meant to be a sample of its potential. Future rapid transit (SkyTrain + SFU Gondola) are in dark grey, conceptual regular B-Line and rapid bus routes in light grey.

<img id="hzDownscaled" style="position: absolute; top: -10000px;">

excuse me, but i'm not sure about the red lines. RAPIDBUS, BRT?. how frequent do you imagine them, please. And is that an rrt line going under habour to the North Shore? yay! go for it.
I can see it goes west to park royal, the up Losdale, then east on which street, please. Then it seems go to Lynn Valley Centre? Is there enough density there to warrant it?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

excuse me, but i'm not sure about the red lines. RAPIDBUS, BRT?. how frequent do you imagine them, please. And is that an rrt line going under habour to the North Shore? yay! go for it.

I think he meant the thick grey lines are Skytrain (and gondola up Burnaby Mountain) and the red lines are rapid bus routes (and not light grey as mentioned, which would be roads he didn't draw a major route on). Or at least that's how the map reads to me.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I think he meant the thick grey lines are Skytrain (and gondola up Burnaby Mountain) and the red lines are rapid bus routes (and not light grey as mentioned, which would be roads he didn't draw a major route on). Or at least that's how the map reads to me.

Yes, I get it clearly now. Thanks. (good plan, imo, too)

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Yes, I get it clearly now. Thanks. (good plan, imo, too)

Agreed - this covers practically everybody AND seems doable within the next twenty years. Nice work, Daryl.

If TransLink does decide to go with this though, they need to consider twinning the Park Royal branch so it can eventually run to Phibbs as an independent line; not much point in getting off, taking a bus to the exchange, then taking another bus to your destination.

[xd_1771]

Actually the light grey lines are conventional rapid bus & B-Line routes utilizing current conventional technologies. There are routes to South Delta.

The red lines are these:

[waves]

The skytrain line you have to the North Shore is actually in a location that makes some degree of sense, avoiding the deepest part of the harbour and providing a way for the seabus to released from Translink, likely to a private company for tourist purposes.

I noticed as well you have it following the existing tracks as well, which would directly connect Lonsdale Quay, Harbourview, Pemberton, Norgate, and Park Royal. It would be revolutionary for that area of the North Shore to see the expansion of development in the whole area rather than just on Marine Drive. It would also be interesting to see Cap Mall expand southwards to connect somehow with the line.

The tracked B-Line stuff is also super interesting and I eagerly await it's arrival.