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  #221  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 6:51 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ So, in other words, Uptown Theatre is screwed unless the city forces a sale
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  #222  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 7:20 PM
JK47 JK47 is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
However there's virtually unlimited demand for outdoor theater spaces in the short summer months so I can see them going for the soccer stadium or other spaces. This of course raises the question of how much outdoor space this will actually have and how much will be essentially ground leases to corporate interests like the stadium or outdoor venues.

So this could end up being a smaller, more available, version of Wrigley.
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  #223  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 7:23 PM
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So this could end up being a smaller, more available, version of Wrigley.
With water nearby!
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  #224  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 7:25 PM
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I don't really see Amazon landing a huge office presence in a suburban setting whatever part of they country the end up in. They've had a lot of chances to do so with other leasing and have pretty much stayed away from it except for SV (where there is little choice).

Well beyond that the comment is interesting since you could say it arguably applies to the other sunbelt competitors too (including Atlanta) whose urban cores are either small or still spread out (Denver, Dallas, Indianapolis, Austin, Raleigh, etc) and undeveloped.
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  #225  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 8:03 PM
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$40 million+
triple it

the Fox Oakland was like 80 million and this is in worse shape/larger
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  #226  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 9:29 PM
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Well beyond that the comment is interesting since you could say it arguably applies to the other sunbelt competitors too (including Atlanta) whose urban cores are either small or still spread out (Denver, Dallas, Indianapolis, Austin, Raleigh, etc) and undeveloped.
With the exception of Denver the rest of that list doesn't stand much of a chance IMO and even that has it's own problems. I strongly think that wherever they chose will be urban with a sizable core to build off of.
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  #227  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 9:33 PM
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Yeah the reno of the Uptown could easily be 80-120 million. I know that sounds up there, but it's a huge undertaking and in order to do it right in 2018 I can see the figure going that high, especially if there is some sort of new construction worked into the plan. I have absolute confidence the Uptown will eventually be reborn. It's of the absolute upmost importance the city does everything to protect it from some sort of catastrophic damage while it's buttoned up waiting for it's savior. One fire or roof cave in and I can see hopes severally dashed, probably permanently, and that would be such an absolute goddamn sickening shame. This city has lost too many golden age palace theaters, it cannot be allowed to join the list of lost gems.
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  #228  
Old Posted May 18, 2018, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
With the exception of Denver the rest of that list doesn't stand much of a chance IMO and even that has it's own problems. I strongly think that wherever they chose will be urban with a sizable core to build off of.

Denver has too much sprawl, its mass transit system isn't fully developed (making congestion a big issue), spends too little on education (38th in the nation overall and 43rd in per pupil spend), is too distant from other major population centers & educational institutions (limiting its ability to act as a recruiting catchment basin).
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  #229  
Old Posted May 18, 2018, 8:21 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Denver has too much sprawl, its mass transit system isn't fully developed (making congestion a big issue), spends too little on education (38th in the nation overall and 43rd in per pupil spend), is too distant from other major population centers & educational institutions (limiting its ability to act as a recruiting catchment basin).
Yeah and it would be a huge case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire" for Amazon. There's already huge shortages of labor and housing there without HQ2. There's even, as you mentioned, critical infrastructure shortages. Denver was never built to be millions of people, it was a smallish cow town for most of it's history until the energy industry blew up there in the 70s. Now it's supposed to be a 5 million metro by like 2030 or 2040 or something. The bones aren't there for that kind of growth so you have this giant sprawling mess with meagre infrastructure. Like have you ever seen US 6 through the West side of town? It's literally a 1960s freeway built in a trench that was 4 lanes and is now 6 because they got rid of the shoulders. There's no room to widen it without flattening like another block of housing all the way along it.

So the result of that is that Denver has hellish traffic problems and a light rail that can only do so much because the density just isn't concentrated enough. Amazon would be totally foolish to locate there or Austin for that matter. Like who at Amazon is going to be like "oh, we are having problems in a tech saturated midsized city, let's put HQ2 in the only cities in the country that have a worse crunch than Seattle and none of the urbanity!"
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  #230  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2018, 9:48 PM
Suiram Suiram is offline
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Its like none of you have ever heard of induced demand.

A new impressive set of venues will bring new acts and events that potentially wouldnt have shown up before. And if the project adds thousands of new residents and new workforce it should also grow the pie of consumer Dollars. Yes its manufactured development instead of organic growth, but thats not really a reasonable complaint since no modern brownfield the scale of Lincoln Yards will ever again be "organic" so its not like you can argue there is an alternative where SB just parcelizes their land, adds roads, and sees what happens.. It will be developed as part of a Master Plan.

For the soccer field, I am most excited about it as a potential long term rugby pitch. MLR is doing reasonably well in its inaugural season. Seattle is the leader on attendance selling out their entire season at a 3,500-4,000 seat venue. Utah has the peak attendance with 9,000 for pre-season game at Rio Tinto. A 20,000 seat soccer stadium right in the middle of the city is a perfect aspirational target for 3-5 years out (and Chicago is expected to field a team in either 2019 or 2020). US Eagles would also be a good option. For a good opponent (excluding first All Blacks match at Solider Field), 10-15k is the usual target attendance.
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  #231  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2018, 3:54 PM
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Its like none of you have ever heard of induced demand.

A new impressive set of venues will bring new acts and events that potentially wouldnt have shown up before.
this is chicago. pretty much every musical act that is doing a national tour is going to stop here, big or small. there is not some untapped well of musical talent that is just waiting for new venues so they can finally play in the city. there is a finite number of bands in the world, and a finite number of people wiling to pay money to see them. if bookings do shift to Live Nation venues at this facility, you can be assured it will be at the expense of independent neighborhood venues like the Empty Bottle/Lincoln Hall/Bottom Lounge/Riv/Schubas/Metro...to say nothing of the Hideout. Ticketmaster/Livenation is a monolothic bloodsucking parasite of a corporation...if we actually had a federal regulatory arm that wasnt completely bought and paid for they wouldnt even exist. There is literally no reason to be excited about them expanding here in such a way if you actually care about grass roots independent art and music.

Last edited by Via Chicago; Jun 5, 2018 at 4:12 PM.
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  #232  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2018, 4:21 PM
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Yep, in general, most people should be against Lincoln Yards on a moral standpoint. It's the only major project proposal that I believe needs to fail for the best of the city. It's bad news across the board
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  #233  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2018, 6:03 PM
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Yep, in general, most people should be against Lincoln Yards on a moral standpoint. It's the only major project proposal that I believe needs to fail for the best of the city. It's bad news across the board
Agreed. Theres so much potential here to reclaim the river for outdoor activities, which Chicago lacks dearly, it would be a shame to waste it. There's plenty of better empty land to build offices and assembly venues elsewhere. Someone said on another thread that Atlanta's rebirth was the green belts, that they watched over 20 years as the green belts drove gehttos into desirable urban neighborhoods. Houston too, with the bayu restorations, driving development. This is a rare case where a mature older 19th century city can learn from the newer southern cities - do what you can to provide urban green belts, urban forests, etc. The river is a great opportunity to that. 100+ years ago planners knew this and created the Cook County forest preserves. They'd never imagine the river could become a green belt. It would be the best of both worlds - 21st century greening right in the heart of 19th century neighborhood grids. It would be unique among world cities.
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  #234  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2018, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
this is chicago. pretty much every musical act that is doing a national tour is going to stop here, big or small. there is not some untapped well of musical talent that is just waiting for new venues so they can finally play in the city. there is a finite number of bands in the world, and a finite number of people wiling to pay money to see them. if bookings do shift to Live Nation venues at this facility, you can be assured it will be at the expense of independent neighborhood venues like the Empty Bottle/Lincoln Hall/Bottom Lounge/Riv/Schubas/Metro...to say nothing of the Hideout. Ticketmaster/Livenation is a monolothic bloodsucking parasite of a corporation...if we actually had a federal regulatory arm that wasnt completely bought and paid for they wouldnt even exist. There is literally no reason to be excited about them expanding here in such a way if you actually care about grass roots independent art and music.
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  #235  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2018, 6:25 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Huh? Why does this project need to fail for the city?
Lincoln Park is already gentrified. The area isn't exactly a ghetto of Atlanta.

The river here is little more than an industrial canal, as far as rivers go it's not very scenic. If you need bodies of water, the freshwater Sea of Michigan(Chicago) is only mile away. I say we rename it the Sea of Chicago, has a nice ring to it haha! There plenty of parks and water nearby.
If you want to do something with the river, turn it into a neighborhood like the canals of Amsterdam with scenic foot bridges every block. That would be really cool.
I think this development is great!
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  #236  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2018, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
Huh? Why does this project need to fail for the city?
Lincoln Park is already gentrified. The area isn't exactly a ghetto of Atlanta.

The river here is little more than an industrial canal, as far as rivers go it's not very scenic. If you need bodies of water, the freshwater Sea of Michigan(Chicago) is only mile away. I say we rename it the Sea of Chicago, has a nice ring to it haha! There plenty of parks and water nearby.
If you want to do something with the river, turn it into a neighborhood like the canals of Amsterdam with scenic foot bridges every block. That would be really cool.
I think this development is great!
The original river basin was more like wetlands, I am a big proponent of returning portions of this city, especially abandoned areas on the south side, to natural wetlands and savanahs, it would relive the storm water flooding issues and create some nature, which is better than the half abandoned auto centric far out neighborhoods of the south side. The Yards could easily become a relif point in the river where it's allowed to jump its "industrial canal" banks and make a nice wet land, forest area. We have to be honest about the Yards - unless it has real dedicated rail integrated into the CTA system, its not only not going to work, it's going to completely overwhelm 2 of the best residential neighborhoods in the city, Lincoln Park and Bucktown. They already are a so traffic clogged on weekends and rush hour its laughable someone would even suggest putting a stadium there. Id hate to see it built and then destroy the very neighborhoods we hold as examples of Chicago's walkability and urbanism.
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  #237  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2018, 8:58 PM
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^ There definitely needs to be a rail component to this project for it not to overwhelm and wreck its surrounding neighborhoods as well as itself. Even a BRT with dedicated ROW would be an acceptable start. Connecting to the West Loop train stations and CTA stations via the Carroll Ave ROW or some other means are a must, IMHO.
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  #238  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2018, 10:52 PM
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Ryan Ori in the Tribune talks about entertainment cannibalization as mentioned by some here.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/entert...527-story.html
This isn't rocket science. And the city has plans for entertainment areas like around McCormick Place. It should stick with its plans and not cede to making money for Sterling Bay.

Added rail would only put a dent in the added traffic. The area is largely two lane streets which are already overloaded - Fullerton, Clybourn, etc. And then side streets that will be inundated by drivers looking for ways to avoid main streets. I really have a hard time seeing how anything on the scale discussed won't be disastrous.
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  #239  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2018, 6:00 PM
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General Iron to sell North Side land site, move out in 2020
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By Ryan Ori

Amid pressure from neighbors, aldermen and federal regulators, General Iron Industries on Friday said it plans to sell its scrap yard along Clybourn Avenue and move to the city’s Southeast Side.

The announcement comes amid a flurry of real estate projects proposed along the Chicago River on the North Side, including developer Sterling Bay’s more than 70-acre Lincoln Yards development on adjacent parcels.

Sterling Bay is scheduled to make its first public presentation next week on the multibillion-dollar Lincoln Yards project, a site that was pitched to Amazon for its second headquarters.

General Iron has hired brokerage Jones Lang LaSalle to seek a buyer for its 21.5-acre site, which the scrap metal recycler said it will vacate in 2020, the company said in a news release. The company did not provide an expected sale price. Based on comparable land deals, it could fetch more than $100 million.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...713-story.html

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  #240  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2018, 10:14 PM
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^ Glad to hear they will be staying in city limits!

Crazy how rapidly the entire Cortland/Kingsbury corridor is changing. I remember walking from Danny's or the Map Room to a friends apartment at Armitage and Racine on more than one occasion years back, and enjoying looking at all of the raw industrial buildings like the Finkl plant that we'd pass along that walk.
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