PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[East Edge]

With it being such a nice day i had a chance to walk around Downtown and it was inspiring to see the progress of some of the projects we have learned about on here. The union trust building just opened Union Standard and I peeked in the window at Eddie V's on Grant and they said they're opening next week!

However, i was pretty discouraged and downright pissed off when i walked up to see the progress of the lower hill infrastructure project! I really have to ask who let this ship sail??!! They should be fired! Its disgraceful. I wonder if this is what BIG designed or if we had some flunky design this in house at the city. Im fine with the pavement, lampposts and benches but these bio swale tree beds are absolutely ridiculous!!



First of all they are about 30" deep with a 6" curb around them. I pity the first vision impaired person to go flying into one of these grave sites amidst the oooh so cool native species of plant material (which are all dormant) rat feces and loads of litter. Not only is this going to be a safety hazard but a maintenance nightmare and eyesore. Come on Pittsburgh! Really??! What was the reasoning behind this? Does the environmental impact it will have the planet really be worth the work required to keep this looking attractive? I guess we can save money on garbage cans because people are just going to throw their trash in these pits. Now the big question? who is going to keep them maintained? Public works?! HA! yeah right! Volunteers? I don't think so. Who is going to pay for the extra labor required?

The next pet peeve is Tree Pittsburgh!! Who put these guys in charge or allow them to have influence over species selection?! Through my travels in the city I see tons of experimental "ooh so cool native trees" get planted in urban environments where they don't stand a chance. Then...they die and the communities that got stuck with them now have dead, struggling, or missing trees due to Tree Pittsburgh's failed attempt of "diversifying our urban forest". Who is going to pay to replace those trees now? The communities who scraped, volunteered and begged to raise money? Again?!! Not fair!

The trees planted in these 30" deep pits in the lower hill are freaking laughable! (not the one pictures above they are ok. Its the ones along the street intersecting Wylie Ave) They have about a .5" caliper and stand about 3' above grade...Yeah they will all be dead in about 2 years and believe me these special trees arent cheap so its a huge waste of resources. Save these for more park like areas and not along an urban street in a city center where they are out of scale and don't provide any shade.

What Tree Pittsburgh also fails to take into consideration is CPTED. Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design. (google it) Basically its about using your head when planning public spaces to make them safe so people don't come out and surprise you and assault you. One of the first things taught in these principles are not to plant small shrub like trees that someone can hide behind and that is exactly the type of tree that Tree Pittsburgh have recommended all over the city along sidewalks. Not only do they look out of scale but they can be a breeding ground for crime. I can totally see someone ducking down into one of these pits and jumping out to surprise someone on their walk back home in the Hill or to find their parked car along the street. Dumb decision!

So some bleeding heart environmentalist who doesnt have a clue about successful urban design just F'd our city's big chance of having a meaningful new expansion of our city center through the introduction of hundreds of these deep pits with straggly native species to house litter, homeless people, nefarious actors and rodents.

Please forgive my rant but if you want to experiment, do one of these swales here and there to see how they perform first before you line all of the streets with them. Hopefully someone can intervene before its too late and at a minimum change the plant material so have some showy, non native vegetation that will fill in the void and perhaps introduce some small evergreen shrubs that could look good year round and not just 6 months of the year. Ok I'm done. Comments? I hope I'm wrong about blaming tree pittsburgh. Perhaps i heard wrong but it was my understanding that they had a say in species selection. I am fully prepared to apologize and eat crow if I'm proved wrong on this. Also, sorry about the large picture format. Not sure how to reduce this when all i did was paste a link.

[Steel City Scotty]

A few photos of the aforementioned crane at the former Saks Fifth Avenue site...

[BobMcKelvin]

The bioswales are a proven technology. Yes the pits require maintenance over time, just like any infrastructure does. The garbage cans require emptying and the storm sewers require cleaning.

It's basic science that trees absorb a lot of rainwater, and Tree Pittsburgh is an organization dedicated to researching the appropriate trees and plants for each site. Three Rivers Wet Weather and the Pittsburgh Parks Conservancy have and use the same criteria.

We will be seeing much more of this type of design in the future as the city moves toward its Green Infrastructure goals that will partially offset the need for bigger pipes everywhere. In some cities like Philly and NY, this type of design has really taken off in recent years, in many ways Pittsburgh is behind the curve if people are just starting to realize this enough to complain about it and obviously lack the proper knowledge to know that it is a vital component to urban design these days. The alternative is even more shit in our rivers and I don't know anyone that wants that.

[BrianTH]

I have no idea what tree species make the most sense for a sustainability perspective, but I will say I don't give much credit to the concern about criminals hiding behind trees and jumping out at passers-by. First, urban crime rates are way down and we should really stop living in constant fear of roving hordes of violent criminals. Second, it seems to me any street with, say, parked cars provides all the jumping out potential you would ever need as a violent criminal.

[photoLith]

Originally Posted by Steel City Scotty

A few photos of the aforementioned crane at the former Saks Fifth Avenue site...

I think this project is stalled or lost funding or something. The site has basically looked the same for months. I rode my bike by there on Tuesday and there wasn't a single worker anywhere to be seen.

[BobMcKelvin]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I have no idea what tree species make the most sense for a sustainability perspective, but I will say I don't give much credit to the concern about criminals hiding behind trees and jumping out at passers-by. First, urban crime rates are way down and we should really stop living in constant fear of roving hordes of violent criminals. Second, it seems to me any street with, say, parked cars provides all the jumping out potential you would ever need as a violent criminal.

That absurd post said the trees were pathetic for being so small and not providing any shade, then proceeded forth with the absurd theory that criminals hide behind trees and lie in wait in tree pits waiting for their opportunity to jump out at their prey. I'm not aware of this being an issue in our neighborhoods full of mature (and native to boot!) species.

As it's extremely impractical if not impossible to transport and transplant fully grown oaks or maples with their full canopies and root systems in place, common sense dictates that we plant as much as we can while we can and allow future generations to reap the same benefits we enjoy in Shadyside and Squirrel Hill with their beautiful tree lined streets.

Or have we forgot to think that far ahead and consider that some investments today may not exactly be fully realized by our generation and will simply make the city better for the future?

[BobMcKelvin]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I have no idea what tree species make the most sense for a sustainability perspective, but I will say I don't give much credit to the concern about criminals hiding behind trees and jumping out at passers-by. First, urban crime rates are way down and we should really stop living in constant fear of roving hordes of violent criminals. Second, it seems to me any street with, say, parked cars provides all the jumping out potential you would ever need as a violent criminal.

That absurd post said the trees were pathetic for being so small and not providing any shade, then proceeded forth with the absurd theory that criminals hide behind trees and lie in wait in tree pits waiting for their opportunity to jump out at their prey. I'm not aware of this being an issue in our neighborhoods full of mature (and native to boot!) species.

As it's extremely impractical if not impossible to transport and transplant fully grown oaks or maples with their full canopies and root systems in place, common sense dictates that we plant as much as we can while we can and allow future generations to reap the same benefits we enjoy in Shadyside and Squirrel Hill with their beautiful tree lined streets.

Or have we forgotten to think that far ahead and consider that some investments today may not exactly be fully realized by our generation and will simply make the city better for the future?

[East Edge]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I have no idea what tree species make the most sense for a sustainability perspective, but I will say I don't give much credit to the concern about criminals hiding behind trees and jumping out at passers-by. First, urban crime rates are way down and we should really stop living in constant fear of roving hordes of violent criminals. Second, it seems to me any street with, say, parked cars provides all the jumping out potential you would ever need as a violent criminal.

We are talking about common sense aesthetics here people! Zelkovas, service berries, hedge maples, are just a few species that diversify our forest but can withstand the abuse our urban trees get and can tolerate salt use in winter. They also mature to an appropriate scale that create a walkable atmosphere and provide some shade to reduce heat island effect.

If you walk along those streets up there now everything looks like a bunch of dead weeds. Acceptable for a natural riparian water edge but not in a premier ubran development. My argument is that there is a time and place for natives and also for non natives which arent invasive. For example euonymus or junipers hold up well in planters, are virtually drought tolerant and look green all year round. Plus they will absorb rain water just as weel if not better than scraggly natives that just look like weeds and ate dormant 6 months of the year.

Im all for cleaner rivers and sustainable solutions but not at the risk of aesthetics. These pits may serve some proven purpose but they look like s@&! All im requesting is that these arrogant elitist environmentalists get off of thier high horses and work to collobate with other points of view. Mark my words these garbage pits will be a disaster and will not be maintained. We had the opportunity to start with a blank canvas and create a dynamic new expansion of our downtown and we blew it.

If these pits are so proven and so successful in other cities find us an example where they put hundreds of these things every 10' that are so deep and look so utilitarian but are aesthicallt pleasing. I just hope we dont F up smallman street with this crap. Im p o'd enough that they are recommending locusts there that choke out any understory of plants you try to grow beneath them but they grow so unpredictably and then huge limbs just fall off during high winds and damage anything below. Not to mention the root systems are so aggressive and lift up surrounding pavement. You would think people who get paid alot of money to design and approve this stuff would know more about how they perform.

[eschaton]

When I was biking around yesterday, I was surprised to see this on the Buncher lot - I hadn't been back there since the fall.



It took me a second to realize this faceless concrete structure is a parking garage. Buncher's first property on its Strip riverfront site - the new apartment building - is essentially built around its parking garage core. You cannot see it from this angle, but they did actually begin to put up framing on one corner of the first story, which suggests the real structure will be going up relatively fast now.

[Minivan Werner]

I seriously doubt blind people are going to fall into these tree beds nor are criminals going to use them to ambush folks. Come on.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by East Edge

If these pits are so proven and so successful in other cities find us an example where they put hundreds of these things every 10' that are so deep and look so utilitarian but are aesthicallt pleasing.

It reminds me of Deaderick Street in Nashville, which ended up looking nice to me:











Edit:

By the way, it is probably worth remembering the views from the top of Wylie are going to be awesome. Below is a photo I took a while back when all this was under construction, and you can also grok that from this street view.



So, I think looking down that street with (hopefully) nice new buildings lining it and Downtown below is going to be quite impressive, and I think the trees/swales will add a welcome green framing element, as in some of the Deaderick Street pictures I linked.

Edit #2: BIG rendering of that view:



It is an interesting slice of Downtown--I really like the fact you can see the Grant Building and the Allegheny Courthouse tower in the background.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It took me a second to realize this faceless concrete block structure is a parking garage. Buncher's first property on its Strip riverfront site - the new apartment building - is essentially built around its parking garage core. You cannot see it from this angle, but they did actually begin to put up framing on one corner of the first story, which suggests the real structure will be going up relatively fast now.

I like this approach better than doing a parking podium. Obviously you need a pretty big lot/structure to make it work, but I'd like to see it used as often as possible.

[BrianTH]

"Robotics Row" is a little cheesy, but it is ours!

http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/...building-strip

Much better than all the Silicon Valley references.

[AFW523]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

"Robotics Row" is a little cheesy, but it is ours!

http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/...building-strip

Much better than all the Silicon Valley references.

What a bizarre editing choice. "Aupperlee I need you to crank out a below the fold city piece about Pittsburgh's emergence as a robotics hub. Dig up some Argo quote from the press release last week, throw together a terrible Google Map that omits a bunch of primary robotics labs in the targeted area, come up with a silly alliterative nickname and for god's sake, keep it under 300 words!"

And as far as the bioswale discussion...I'm far from a dendrologist, but if you think the types of trees that get planted in them are going to be what makes or breaks the 27 acres, you are probably getting ahead of yourself in terms of what to be outraged over. This isn't going to be some groundbreaking development like the pie in the sky BIG vision. It's going to be a clone of the north shore, with franchise entertainment district offerings and some poorly designed, low-impact residential. Throw in some parking garages and maybe a Best Western, and that's what we will get. Pump the breaks until it really gets ruined.

[East Edge]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It reminds me of Deaderick Street in Nashville, which ended up looking nice to me:











Edit:

By the way, it is probably worth remembering the views from the top of Wylie are going to be awesome. Below is a photo I took a while back when all this was under construction, and you can also grok that from this street view.



So, I think looking down that street with (hopefully) nice new buildings lining it and Downtown below is going to be quite impressive, and I think the trees/swales will add a welcome green framing element, as in some of the Deaderick Street pictures I linked.

Edit #2: BIG rendering of that view:



It is an interesting slice of Downtown--I really like the fact you can see the Grant Building and the Allegheny Courthouse tower in the background.

This is a PRIME example of a city who did this right! the pits are not deep at all. They are filled out with a nice low growing shrub that appears to be a boxwood that can be shaped to a more urban modern form, AND they arent too big for anyone to hide behind NOR are they lining the pedestrian sidewalks. The pedestrian sidewalks have mature canopy trees with a decorative iron grate at the same grade as the sidewalk. No curbs to trip over no garbage filled rat infested pits of weeds to fall into. Thanks for sharing this picture! It perfectly illustrates my point!

Here is a link to one guide outlining the principles of CPTED. Before you criticize it google it. http://www.popcenter.org/tools/cpted/PDFs/NCPC.pdf it no joke. If you read page 10 line 3 you will see the excerpt below. Therefore the tiny shrub like native trees will fall into this category and in their maturity will NOT grow tall enough to provide the sight lines for pedestrians to feel safe. Its as absurd as planting arborvitaes or dwarf spruce along a city street that would be the ideal barrier for potential criminals to hide. The trees along Wylie are fine because the foliage of the tree is elevated above sight lines by the trunk of the tree. I'm addressing the the trees running perpendicular to Wylie.

3. FUTURE SIGHT LINE IMPEDIMENTS
As the landscape matures over time, unintended screens, barriers or hiding places could be created. Therefore, planting in a landscape must take into consideration the growth, final height and habit of the plants. Plantings are best made with due consideration to the resources to be committed to their maintenance so as to ensure that the original sight lines designed do not get obscured over time.

By the way The tree beds at the August Wilson Center used Silva cells to manage stormwater onsite and are much more appropriate for an urban setting. http://www.deeproot.com/products/silva-cell/overview

Ok now I'm really done! Lets just do better next time and hope this poor infrastructure design we ended up with (which by the looks of BIG's renderings are NOT their intended design) and hope that it doesnt adversely affect any future development we may attract in this area.

[highlander206]

So the bed trees are planted in are really that big of a deal? When I drive to work, I go near that area and I have never had an issue with the trees or beds they are planted in. I remember when the trees on Butler St. were planted over 15 years ago they were quite small and now look at how great and they look. Progress takes time and by the time buildings are finally open there (hopefully in a few years) the trees planted there will look much fuller.

[BrianTH]

I continue to be baffled. You can't actually walk through the swales lining the street here, and they obscure sightlines (see the people over to the right in the second picture). I also have zero idea how deep they are, since they are full of plants. So is the issue just the curb? That's doesn't make sense to me.





Again I know nothing about species choice, but otherwise once those Wylie swales are more mature, it would seem they will look an awful lot like those Deaderick swales.

By the way, a quick bit of googling suggests CPTED principles are not in fact hostile to street trees, which really doesn't make any sense to me to begin with:

Provide trees in residential areas. Research results indicate that, contrary to traditional views within the law enforcement community, outdoor residential spaces with more trees are seen as significantly more attractive, more safe, and more likely to be used than similar spaces without trees.

Edit: This picture also nicely illustrates the point I was making earlier. If you were a violent criminal looking for a good lurking spot, would you choose the SUV at the red arrow, or the tree at the purple arrow? I know my choice:

[AFW523]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I continue to be baffled. You can't actually walk through the swales lining the street here, and they obscure sightlines (see the people over to the right in the second picture). So is the issue just the curb? That's doesn't make sense to me.





Again I know nothing about species choice, but otherwise once those Wylie swales are more mature, it would seem they will look an awful lot like those Deaderick swales.

By the way, a quick bit of googling suggests CPTED principles are not in fact hostile to street trees, which really doesn't make any sense to me to begin with.

Unsuspecting Sneak Attack Victims

[Skylar]

It's good to see the city experiencing revival.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by AFW523

Unsuspecting Sneak Attack Victims

Hah!