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  #1841  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 4:39 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
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It's supposedly the Bernier campaign, no? I'm wondering what the fallout will be - I can't see Bernier being obliged to pull out of the campaign, but somebody needs to be sanctioned. It's still unclear how/whether these memberships were somehow to be used to cast fake leadership ballots = that doesn't seem feasible.
I'll bet my life its lietch
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  #1842  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 8:00 PM
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So Lisa Raitt is calling for the Party to expel any leadership candidate found to have violated membership rules. This, as Bernier's campaign accuses O'Leary's Sikh community organizer of offering to pay for other people's memberships (the accusation has been denied).

So far, this issue seems to have had surprisingly little resonace, with the Party itself seemingly thinking that the matter has been addressed by cancelling the improper memberships. Where's the accountability?

What am I missing? This seems like a serious matter to me but I'm beginnig to think that I just don't get it. What the heck is going on?
The party brought in new rules stipulating that memberships have to be paid using a credit card, or by cheque. The reason the new rules were brought in was because in past leadership races - in all parties - you'd have candidates signing up new members and paying their registration fees, etc. So in order to prevent a candidate from buying thousands of memberships they now require proof that each member bought their own membership.

From the party's standpoint, they've shown that their verification process works. Those memberships that were deemed to have been purchased improperly have been canceled.

As for whether a candidate should be disciplined for it - which is more so what you're getting at I think - well that's easier said than done. First, you need to find out who actually did this, the culprit used an anonymous IP address. If that person was found you'd need to link them to a campaign, which should be pretty easy once you know their name. But then what? Say it was Bernier's campaign, do we know if him or his senior campaign staff knew about this? How would you be able to find that out? Should a candidate be disciplined for something a maybe unknown volunteer did? If that's the case one campaign could get their supporters to volunteer for another candidate just to get them in trouble.

The party is likely still reviewing this matter and will probably say more soon.

For all we know the Liberals could have done this and not one of the candidates.
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  #1843  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2017, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
The party brought in new rules stipulating that memberships have to be paid using a credit card, or by cheque. The reason the new rules were brought in was because in past leadership races - in all parties - you'd have candidates signing up new members and paying their registration fees, etc. So in order to prevent a candidate from buying thousands of memberships they now require proof that each member bought their own membership.

From the party's standpoint, they've shown that their verification process works. Those memberships that were deemed to have been purchased improperly have been canceled.

As for whether a candidate should be disciplined for it - which is more so what you're getting at I think - well that's easier said than done. First, you need to find out who actually did this, the culprit used an anonymous IP address. If that person was found you'd need to link them to a campaign, which should be pretty easy once you know their name. But then what? Say it was Bernier's campaign, do we know if him or his senior campaign staff knew about this? How would you be able to find that out? Should a candidate be disciplined for something a maybe unknown volunteer did? If that's the case one campaign could get their supporters to volunteer for another candidate just to get them in trouble.

The party is likely still reviewing this matter and will probably say more soon.

For all we know the Liberals could have done this and not one of the candidates.
Wouldn't THAT be an interesting twist?!
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  #1844  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
The party brought in new rules stipulating that memberships have to be paid using a credit card, or by cheque. The reason the new rules were brought in was because in past leadership races - in all parties - you'd have candidates signing up new members and paying their registration fees, etc. So in order to prevent a candidate from buying thousands of memberships they now require proof that each member bought their own membership.

From the party's standpoint, they've shown that their verification process works. Those memberships that were deemed to have been purchased improperly have been canceled.

As for whether a candidate should be disciplined for it - which is more so what you're getting at I think - well that's easier said than done. First, you need to find out who actually did this, the culprit used an anonymous IP address. If that person was found you'd need to link them to a campaign, which should be pretty easy once you know their name. But then what? Say it was Bernier's campaign, do we know if him or his senior campaign staff knew about this? How would you be able to find that out? Should a candidate be disciplined for something a maybe unknown volunteer did? If that's the case one campaign could get their supporters to volunteer for another candidate just to get them in trouble.

The party is likely still reviewing this matter and will probably say more soon.

For all we know the Liberals could have done this and not one of the candidates.
I don't think any party did it, perhaps it was groups like Leadnow that are infiltrating?
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  #1845  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 10:40 AM
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I don't think any party did it, perhaps it was groups like Leadnow that are infiltrating?
It's most definitely a candidate. Trying to get proof of which one and their role in it is the problem.
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  #1846  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 1:54 PM
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It's most definitely a candidate. Trying to get proof of which one and their role in it is the problem.
With the goal of casting fraudulent ballots? That's the part that has remained most unclear to me - it seems the most likely purpose, but I don't understand how anybody could pull it off, unless there's significant flaws in the planned voting process.
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  #1847  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 1:55 PM
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I think it would be much smarter for the CPC to have a bunch of "superdelegates" picking the party's next leader with the '19 election in mind. They need someone electable in a general election, not merely electable in a CPC election.

The NDP has the exact same problem, for the record -- the new leader their base might decide to vote for could very well suck from the point of view of the voters the party's trying to seduce. After all, didn't that very base of voters vote to get rid of an experienced and respected centrist leader who delivered one of the party's best results ever...? That should tell you what you need to know about them...
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  #1848  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 5:36 PM
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With the goal of casting fraudulent ballots? That's the part that has remained most unclear to me - it seems the most likely purpose, but I don't understand how anybody could pull it off, unless there's significant flaws in the planned voting process.
This is the confusing part. I believe the idea is that once the ballots arrived in the mail they'd visit these people and get them to fill out the ballots and get a copy of their ID so that it can be mailed.

It's quite possible that they were signing up people who have limited understanding of all of this. So they may not necessarily know when they receive the ballots that they shouldn't have. Some seem to think the whole thing could be linked to volunteers who had helped Patrick Brown, so because they're Ontario PC supporters they may think they also get a ballot for the CPC.
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  #1849  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 5:38 PM
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I think it would be much smarter for the CPC to have a bunch of "superdelegates" picking the party's next leader with the '19 election in mind. They need someone electable in a general election, not merely electable in a CPC election.

The NDP has the exact same problem, for the record -- the new leader their base might decide to vote for could very well suck from the point of view of the voters the party's trying to seduce. After all, didn't that very base of voters vote to get rid of an experienced and respected centrist leader who delivered one of the party's best results ever...? That should tell you what you need to know about them...
Who decides superdelegates?

As well, I think what you may be criticizing is democracy.
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  #1850  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 11:05 PM
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This is the confusing part. I believe the idea is that once the ballots arrived in the mail they'd visit these people and get them to fill out the ballots and get a copy of their ID so that it can be mailed.

It's quite possible that they were signing up people who have limited understanding of all of this. So they may not necessarily know when they receive the ballots that they shouldn't have. Some seem to think the whole thing could be linked to volunteers who had helped Patrick Brown, so because they're Ontario PC supporters they may think they also get a ballot for the CPC.
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Who decides superdelegates?

As well, I think what you may be criticizing is democracy.
True, but this process and the way it has unfolded does make one rather nostalgic for the days of leadership conventions, for all their smoke-filled rooms.
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  #1851  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 11:35 PM
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I think it would be much smarter for the CPC to have a bunch of "superdelegates" picking the party's next leader with the '19 election in mind. They need someone electable in a general election, not merely electable in a CPC election.

The NDP has the exact same problem, for the record -- the new leader their base might decide to vote for could very well suck from the point of view of the voters the party's trying to seduce. After all, didn't that very base of voters vote to get rid of an experienced and respected centrist leader who delivered one of the party's best results ever...? That should tell you what you need to know about them...
I have to agree that the CPC and NDP are in danger of choosing leaders who will not be appealing to a large percentage of voters.
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  #1852  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 11:37 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I think it would be much smarter for the CPC to have a bunch of "superdelegates" picking the party's next leader with the '19 election in mind. They need someone electable in a general election, not merely electable in a CPC election.

The NDP has the exact same problem, for the record -- the new leader their base might decide to vote for could very well suck from the point of view of the voters the party's trying to seduce. After all, didn't that very base of voters vote to get rid of an experienced and respected centrist leader who delivered one of the party's best results ever...? That should tell you what you need to know about them...
Oh dear god, this is why the democrats won.

If members of the party don't know how to vote than the party shouldn't win.
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  #1853  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2017, 11:38 PM
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This is the confusing part. I believe the idea is that once the ballots arrived in the mail they'd visit these people and get them to fill out the ballots and get a copy of their ID so that it can be mailed.

It's quite possible that they were signing up people who have limited understanding of all of this. So they may not necessarily know when they receive the ballots that they shouldn't have. Some seem to think the whole thing could be linked to volunteers who had helped Patrick Brown, so because they're Ontario PC supporters they may think they also get a ballot for the CPC.
I still question how Patrick Brown won the ON PC leadership. The Liberals are so happy that Christine Elliott didn't win.
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  #1854  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 1:45 PM
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I still question how Patrick Brown won the ON PC leadership. The Liberals are so happy that Christine Elliott didn't win.
Patrick Brown was the underdog. Elliot took the win for granted, and Brown came in from underneath and stole it. Even with his woes, my money is still on him for the next Premier of Ontario. I think he will get a majority too.
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  #1855  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 2:01 PM
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Patrick Brown was the underdog. Elliot took the win for granted, and Brown came in from underneath and stole it. Even with his woes, my money is still on him for the next Premier of Ontario. I think he will get a majority too.
As long as he can run a campaign that suggests he can walk and chew gum at the same time, I'd agree with you. Not much of a hurdle, you'd think, but it remains to be seen.
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  #1856  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 2:10 PM
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If people are concerned about the NDP or CPC selecting a leader that doesn't appeal to the general public then they should sign up and vote.
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  #1857  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 2:11 PM
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Patrick Brown was the underdog. Elliot took the win for granted, and Brown came in from underneath and stole it. Even with his woes, my money is still on him for the next Premier of Ontario. I think he will get a majority too.
Exactly, he worked hard and signed up new people.
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  #1858  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2017, 9:13 PM
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Not to mention that the Conservative leadership voting system is pretty much designed to appeal to as many voters as possible. Per riding and with a ranked ballot, you're pretty much guaranteed to get a nationwide consensus candidate for Conservatives. The winner might not appeal to a whole lot of left-leaning voters, but then that's not what the Conservative Party is trying to do.

As for the NDP member ousting Mulcair, they also voted him in. The current crop of candidates seem to be firmly left-of-centre, but they're also the only ones that have decided to run.
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  #1859  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 10:27 PM
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Reports this afternoon suggest that Bernier has taken the leadership contest to Crazytown with a suggestion that he'd consider using the military to "close the border" to illegal immigrants. One has trouble even knowing where to begin in explaining why, apart from being completely ineffective, that's a really, really, really bad idea.
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  #1860  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2017, 10:30 PM
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Meanwhile, Michael Chong finds himself in a crazy flap. Nothing he did, but still. . . very odd.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/gl...t-it-felt-like
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