JERSEY CITY | Liberty Rising | 1000+ FT | 95 FLOORS

[Crawford]

Well if they build taller than 1 WTC in Jersey City, does that mean Barnett can push 225 W.57 above 1775 ft.? Once the "sacred height" has been broken, the floodgates open?

Anyways, this proposal seems promising but it's very early in the game here.

[NYguy]

I don't think it's going anywhere. For one thing, the gambling seems a longshot at that location. But beyond that, the location just isn't a good one for this type of tower.

...not everyone is convinced that the site, a somewhat isolated area south of Liberty State Park and the Liberty Science Center, is an ideal location for ultra-expensive apartments or a luxury hotel.

“Not to criticize Jersey City, but it’s tough to create a luxury residential product outside of a hub like Manhattan,” said Jonathan J. Miller, president of Miller Samuel, an appraisal firm in Manhattan. “The trophy market isn’t simply about building something big and sticking it somewhere.

“I don’t understand this location, even if the views are spectacular. It’s aligned with things that don’t go together with high-end apartments, like motor cross.”

I won't get started on the large motorcross stadium. It all seems designed to attract enough attention for the politicians who desperately want something to pull from the ever blooming number of tourists in and out of the city. But Jersey City can do better, and in a better location.

[NYguy]

The project would be in the left (center) side of these google earth images, away from the towers of Jersey City...

[StoOgE]

So, what we are saying is an isolated part of jersey city with no PATH access and limited access to the light rail is going to have the nation's tallest skyscraper/hotel/casino/giant nascar stadium and ferris wheel built for 5 billion dollars?



Best case scenario: this guy is blowing a lot of smoke to get a casino permit and will then throw everything else out take his casino license and sell it to an MGM/Harrah's/Sand's

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

So, what we are saying is an isolated part of jersey city with no PATH access and limited access to the light rail is going to have the nation's tallest skyscraper/hotel/casino/giant nascar stadium and ferris wheel built for 5 billion dollars?

The location is quite good, with direct ferry to Manhattan, and I don't think subway access has a lot to do with whether you can sell luxury condos at the nation's most expensive golf club.

They're already approved for the three condo towers previously proposed, though. So would they scrap the three towers and just build a single condo tower?

[C.]

There is a 70-storey tower under construction in Journal Square. That's far away from the waterfront tower's of Jersey City. Some on this forum said it was pipe dream. Yet it's being built on the strength of market demand.

I don't see a luxury residential development here as unfeasible. There is already a trio of towers that were approved as part of the now built Liberty National Golf Club, which caters to the uber luxury crowd. Mayor Fulop is showing very strong support. Let's see what happens!

[scalziand]

The site that makes the most sense would be here, next to existing luxury looking residential and the ferry stop. Is this where the previously approved towers were to be built?

http://goo.gl/maps/4MBSh

It's a half mile from the HBLR, although a little farther to reach an actual stop. Is that really in the middle of nowhere?

WAG: The motorsports complex will somehow include the Jersey F1 track.

[chris08876]

^^^

That would make more sense. Its not a far walk either.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

So, what we are saying is an isolated part of jersey city with no PATH access and limited access to the light rail is going to have the nation's tallest skyscraper/hotel/casino/giant nascar stadium and ferris wheel built for 5 billion dollars?

Best case scenario: this guy is blowing a lot of smoke to get a casino permit and will then throw everything else out take his casino license and sell it to an MGM/Harrah's/Sand's

That's exactly what he's doing. Maybe he should just throw in a major league baseball stadium to get more eyes stretched. If he can get the casino through (not likely), then the other stuff will gradually fall off.

Originally Posted by CIA

There is a 70-storey tower under construction in Journal Square. That's far away from the waterfront tower's of Jersey City. Some on this forum said it was pipe dream. Yet it's being built on the strength of market demand.

Journal Square is a transportation hub, and more so than Exchange Place or any of the other areas around JC's waterfront. That's why those towers are being built there. Otherwise, you would see these towers going up all over Jersey City.

not everyone is convinced that the site, a somewhat isolated area south of Liberty State Park and the Liberty Science Center, is an ideal location for ultra-expensive apartments or a luxury hotel.

He may as well put the proposal in the meadowlands, but there at least is some rail access.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by CIA

There is a 70-storey tower under construction in Journal Square. That's far away from the waterfront tower's of Jersey City. Some on this forum said it was pipe dream. Yet it's being built on the strength of market demand.

I don't see a luxury residential development here as unfeasible. There is already a trio of towers that were approved as part of the now built Liberty National Golf Club, which caters to the uber luxury crowd. Mayor Fulop is showing very strong support. Let's see what happens!

Right.. the JSQ that is 3 stops to WTC and 30 minutes to Penn.

Journal Square was beyond primed for a building surge. I expect to see Grove Street to become a valley between JSQ and Exchange.

[Tectonic]

Being in NJ this could work.

[NorthernDancer]

Not only is there no rail stop at this site, there isn't even a NJT bus route. There is a ferry, but right now it only goes to the east side of Lower Manhattan. And with the ferry, service frequency is poor, and hours of service are very limited.

[NYguy]

^ It's a bad idea, for a bad location. Now, had this been proposed to be built over the Hoboken railyards, a casino complex would probably work. Forget about the motorsports stadium. That's where the meadowlands comes in as a better option. Forget about the 95-story luxury tower too. Neither of those locations work for it. Something like that needs to be where all of the other highrises of Jersey City are, and that's just to start. As was mentioned in the article, there's a lot more to building luxury than just putting it up. Otherwise they would be going up all over the place.

[supertallchaser]

well considering its been in the works for monthes with the city this guy must have some big plan to pull this off

[samoen313]

Granted, I haven't been to Staten Island so I don't really know what the view situation is like toward Manhattan, but the site is less than half the distance to lower Manhattan as the Staten Island wheel site, making this seem like a much better site for one of those things. Even then, still seems less than ideal. Hoboken or Greenpoint would provide the full panoramic views of Manhattan that I suspect *most* people would be trying to access, but hell if either of those would ever allow anything of the sort.

Then again, I suspect, as has been already mentioned, this proposed element is probably just another ball being thrown at the dunk tank of state funding to see what moves the project forward rather than a serious proposal.

[C.]

Another casino in Atlantic City may be closing and layoff notices could be issued as early as Monday. The South Jersey gaming market is quickly dying. This may be a boost for the push to bring casinos to North Jersey now that Atlantic City, and its tax dollars, cannot be saved.

Trump Atlantic City Casino May Close in September
New Jersey’s struggling gaming-industry hub faces another blow as the Trump Plaza casino in Atlantic City prepares to tell workers it may close in September, a state assemblyman said.

Trump Entertainment Resorts Inc. lawyers said yesterday that the property may shutter as soon as Sept. 16, Assemblyman Vincent Mazzeo, a Democrat who represents Atlantic City in the state legislature, said in an interview today. Notices will be sent to 1,000-plus workers as soon as next week warning them of the possible closure, he said.

Trump Plaza would join a roster of Atlantic City casinos buckling under as the resort community has yet to rebound from the worst U.S. recession since World War II. The Atlantic Club casino closed in January, Caesars Entertainment Corp. (CZR) announced it will shut down its Showboat property on the city’s boardwalk Aug. 31, and Revel, a $2.4 billion mirrored-glass casino that was supposed to usher in an era of opulence and resurgence for the city, is searching for a buyer in bankruptcy.

Chris Cahill, a Trump spokesman, didn’t return a phone call, text or e-mail seeking comment.

“It’s a done deal -- they’re going to move in this direction,” said Mazzeo, a Democrat. “The big issue for this region is that you’ll have 6,000-8,000 people who will now be unemployed. That’s going to have a devastating effect on our economy and on this region.”

Regional Competition

Atlantic City has been hurt by losing its gaming-monopoly status as nearby states including Pennsylvania, Maryland and New York added gambling outlets to boost their tax coffers. The city’s casino-generated revenue has dropped for seven consecutive years, and in 2013 fell to $2.8 billion from a high of $5.2 billion in 2006, according to Bloomberg Industries...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...september.html

[C.]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/new-j...nos-1405042701

Unusually strong support from Mayor Fulop...

New Jersey Eyes Upstate Casinos
Atlantic City Officials and Casino Workers Protest

Atlantic City's already hobbled gambling industry could face another threat: casinos in northern New Jersey.

Developers and some local officials, eager to tap into the New York City market and that of its populous suburbs, are floating the idea of building casinos far from Atlantic City, which currently holds the only gambling properties in New Jersey. Proposed locations include the Meadowlands and Jersey City, both mere miles from the city.

New York state, while planning to add casinos, is currently not allowing them within New York City limits.

"We could build a world-class venue that would attract people from New York, because it's impossible to build something like this in Manhattan," said Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop, who is touting a 95-story tower with a casino with billionaire developer Paul Fireman. The plan also includes a motor-sports stadium...

Mr. Fulop said details of the Jersey City proposal are still being ironed out, and that some residents may oppose a casino. And while gambling establishments have closed elsewhere because of a saturated market, Mr. Fulop said North Jersey could support more than one.

[Michael12374]

This is never happening. Not trying to be a buzzkill, but let's be honest here. No chance.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by supertallchaser

well considering its been in the works for monthes with the city this guy must have some big plan to pull this off

Yeah, his plan involves throwing some big things out there, like a 100,000 seat motorsports stadium, and a 95-story luxury hotel/highrise. All in the middle or virtual nowhere. As I said before, this guy wants the casino. If hell froze over, and the state actually put a casino in this location, the other things would never be built.

Originally Posted by samoen313

Granted, I haven't been to Staten Island so I don't really know what the view situation is like toward Manhattan, but the site is less than half the distance to lower Manhattan as the Staten Island wheel site, making this seem like a much better site for one of those things. .

The Staten Island wheel location is already serviced by the Staten Island ferry which millions of tourist ride each year.

Originally Posted by Michael12374

This is never happening. Not trying to be a buzzkill, but let's be honest here. No chance.

Of course it isn't, and for various reasons, even if a casino were not involved. Like I said earlier, they should drop the tower portion, it doesn't really mix with the ferris wheel and stadium anyway, and try to get something built in the meadowlands.

[NYguy]

Here's something that makes more sense...


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/ny...=nyregion&_r=0

As Casinos Close in Atlantic City, a Push for More, Closer to New York


By CHARLES V. BAGLI
AUG. 18, 2014

With as many as four casinos shutting down in Atlantic City by the end of September, New Jersey is suddenly awash in plans for, well, more casinos.

The Meadowlands Regional Chamber of Commerce is to unveil plans on Tuesday for a Las Vegas-style casino, two 1,000-room hotels, a one-million-square-foot convention center and a youth sports center at the Meadowlands Sports Complex, less than nine miles west of Manhattan.

The chamber says that it could be the most successful casino in the world, sitting northeast of MetLife Stadium, next to the planned American Dream shopping mall, water park and amusement park, and so close to New York City.

“We can turn this place into a fabulous sports and entertainment complex with elements for everybody,” said Jim Kirkos, chief executive of the Meadowlands Chamber, which has 1,120 corporate members. “We can really create an economic engine and make it a destination.”

Similar claims of glamorous, revenue-generating machines are being made by companies in New York State that are vying for casino licenses at locations within 50 miles of Manhattan.

But even as casino fever is intensifying near New York City, in Atlantic City, where the industry was once thriving, the picture is much bleaker. The Atlantic Club casino closed in January; the Showboat casino announced that it would close Aug. 31; the Revel is to close in September, as is Trump Plaza.

The Meadowlands proposal, or vision, was prompted by discussions among Gov. Chris Christie; Stephen M. Sweeney, president of the State Senate; and other legislators about a constitutional amendment that would allow casinos outside Atlantic City.

This month, Governor Christie announced that he would convene a “summit” of local and state officials on Sept. 8 to discuss the future of Atlantic City. “We’re happy that all of a sudden there’s this dialogue about gaming outside of Atlantic City,” Mr. Kirkos said.

For decades, there has been a political taboo against the expansion of casino gambling beyond Atlantic City for fear of undermining the 12 casinos there. But Atlantic City casinos have been battered by the proliferation of casinos in surrounding states, especially Pennsylvania. Revenues have fallen by half since 2006. And now New York plans to license full-scale casinos within a short car ride of northern New Jersey and New York City.

So even as Atlantic City struggles to reinvent itself as a seaside resort and convention city that also happens to have gambling, some legislators, developers and gambling companies are looking to shore up New Jersey’s flanks against more competition.

“You’re losing four casinos in Atlantic City,” said Alan Woinski, publisher of Gaming Industry Weekly Report. “Why don’t you open a casino in another part of New Jersey? The customer in North Jersey is not going to Atlantic City anymore. They drive 70 minutes to Sands Bethlehem casino or to Yonkers.”

In July, Paul Fireman, the former chairman of Reebok International, proposed a $4.6 billion casino project with a 95-story skyscraper at the southern end of Jersey City, next to his 160-acre Liberty National Golf Course, a relatively remote location with spectacular views of Lower Manhattan.

Jersey City’s mayor, Steven M. Fulop, a supporter of the project, claimed that “it would be the highest-grossing casino in the United States.”

But proponents will have to overcome the misgivings of officials from South Jersey, where thousands of Atlantic City casino workers make their homes.

In a separate proposal, Jeff Gural, a New York real estate investor, wants to install slot machines at the Meadowlands Sports Complex, where he runs the racetrack and recently built an $88 million grandstand.

Mr. Gural is not looking to build a destination resort that would compete with Atlantic City. Under his proposal, he would operate slot machines at a 55 percent tax rate, with nearly half of the revenue dedicated to rebuilding Atlantic City as a resort.

“We have to come up with a plan that helps Atlantic City, and doesn’t put it out of business,” Mr. Gural said. “That’s in no one’s best interest.”

But the Meadowlands Chamber has much more ambitious plans.

Its proposal is to build a hotel and a convention hall, a large casino and a youth sports center in a building next to the vacant Izod arena. There would be a second, 1,000-room hotel next to the Meadowlands racetrack.

The proposal calls for up to 20,000 additional parking spaces in garages scattered across the 750-acre sports complex. In addition, a 1.5-mile monorail or “people mover” would transport visitors around the complex.

“We don’t only want a casino,” Mr. Kirkos said. “I want a convention center, a couple of quality hotels. I want it all.”

Raymond J. Lesniak, a state senator from North Jersey, is not so sure. He said he, too, welcomed a discussion about expanding casinos beyond Atlantic City. Any proposal, he said, had to help Atlantic City transform itself. Mr. Lesniak dismissed the proposal for a Las Vegas-style casino in the Meadowlands, in favor of one overlooking the New York skyline.

“The proposal for a megacasino at the Jersey City site” and a slot parlor in the Meadowlands, Mr. Lesniak said, “could produce in excess of a billion dollars over 10 years to be reinvested in Atlantic City.”

Here's the problem with trying to build a casino resort that draws from or relies heavily on drawing business from residents and tourists of New York by putting a casino in Jersey City - New York is going to handle casino gambling on its own. For now, the governor wants to open casinos outside the city to get a jumpstart. But place a casino anywhere within close proximity to Manhattan, and you will see a Manhattan casino develop (who in their right minds believes the state will watch that revenue drift over the border).

When that happens, there goes your New York crowd, and you are left with Jersey residents, who should be the primary focus of any casino development in north Jersey. And Jersey City, while close to Manhattan, isn't exactly the most accessible place to get to from other parts of north Jersey, I know that for a fact. However, the Meadowlands would be.

Whatever is developed should be a draw all its own, and not rely heavily on the NY crowd.