CHICAGO | General Discussions - Page 89

the urban politician · #**1761** Posted **Oct 2, 2019, 7:33 PM**

^ I am responding to your post here, since I don't want another tangential discussion in our beloved Economy thread:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...208431&page=88

the urban politician · #**1762** Posted **Oct 2, 2019, 7:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

I was looking at SFH with the wife and figured we would at least consider Oak Park, but wtf the taxes are horrendous outside of the city. I don't understand why a $1.25 million house in old Irving Park pays half the taxes as a 750k house in Oak Park. It's a bummer too because the Robert Parker house is for sale for only like $750k which we might be able to swing if we didn't have to tack $2500/mo in taxes on top of it. That's just silly, the entire payment would be $2500, the taxes are equal to a second mortgage payment...

I can see why people in that 75-100k salary range are scramming when a $350k house comes with a $10k+ annual tax bill...

Does anyone know why taxes are so low in the city proper? Is it just the smaller lots sizes or what?

In addition to the downtown tax base, I actually feel that a lot of it has to do with schools. A huge amount of our property tax bill goes towards schools, and since suburbs are family-heavy and the city is (relatively) not, it ends up being a much bigger priority.

Handro · #**1763** Posted **Oct 2, 2019, 8:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

In addition to the downtown tax base, I actually feel that a lot of it has to do with schools. A huge amount of our property tax bill goes towards schools, and since suburbs are family-heavy and the city is (relatively) not, it ends up being a much bigger priority.

Why are communities in other states able to have good schools without insane local property taxes? Are school districts in IL overly dependent on local taxes?

IrishIllini · #**1764** Posted **Oct 2, 2019, 9:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handro

Why are communities in other states able to have good schools without insane local property taxes? Are school districts in IL overly dependent on local taxes?

Yes. The state of Illinois doesn’t provide much educational funding at all. I believe the funding that is provided is allocated based on need. School districts live and die by their local tax base.

Vlajos · #**1765** Posted **Oct 2, 2019, 9:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Yes. The state of Illinois doesn’t provide much educational funding at all. I believe the funding that is provided is allocated based on need. School districts live and die by their local tax base.

Yep, the state of Illinois doesn't provide much funding for schools, though it pays for all schools pensions other than CPS.

In Chicago, I believe over 50% of real estate taxes go to CPS.

marothisu · #**1766** Posted **Oct 2, 2019, 10:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrinChi

This is fascinating and, logically and anecdotally, it totally makes sense to me. $75-$100K is that income range where you can live comfortably, but around Chicago it's still going to be tough to put away much savings besides your 401K. You feel rich based on your salary but are shocked when your expenses quickly eat up your monthly income. If you're a family, health care costs keep going up and now your SALT taxes are going up plus they can't be deducted over 10K. You're going to be much more open to move to a low-tax state to keep living in the same size house (or bigger) + 2 cars at a lower cost. This income range also reflects people I've known who end up leaving the area due to the "high costs of Chicago."

This also fits into the narrative of the squeezed middle class.

There is most likely many reasons why but without much evidence it's hard to say all of them. Many other explanations can be there such as the fact that many households could be moving up income brackets who were previously at the $75K-$100K bracket, but now are above $100K.

Handro · #**1767** Posted **Oct 3, 2019, 8:58 PM**

https://www.kiplinger.com/tool/taxes...state=Illinois

Quote:

Illinois’ economic woes are one reason why the Prairie State tops our list of the least tax-friendly states in the country. The state ranks #50 in the latest ranking of states’ fiscal health by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, and residents are paying the price with higher taxes.

It goes on to give a breakdown of IL taxes, on average.

Also:
Least Tax-Friendly States: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/...019/index.html
Most Tax-Friendly States: https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/...019/index.html

Skyguy_7 · #**1768** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 12:28 AM**

^I’m pro-public transit, and very anti-NIMBY, but how could they forgo parking in both those proposals? The West Loop is an absolute nightmare for autos. I have to swing down there from the north burbs for meetings and it’s always a great ordeal. This goes against my being; but MORE PARKING PLEASE

killaviews · #**1769** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 12:51 AM**

The young business district should take a lesson from the senior business district where they are tearing down parking garages. Sounds like the alderman is on board with no parking. Terrible traffic isn’t fixed by more parking.

ardecila · #**1770** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 1:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

^I’m pro-public transit, and very anti-NIMBY, but how could they forgo parking in both those proposals? The West Loop is an absolute nightmare for autos. I have to swing down there from the north burbs for meetings and it’s always a great ordeal. This goes against my being; but MORE PARKING PLEASE

OK, so I was at the meeting for 800 W Lake. Ald. Burnett said he will be pushing for a new L stop at Halsted to replace the one that was removed in the 90s.

I dunno if CTA will listen, since Morgan is only 1/4 mile away... this site isn't exactly a transit desert, and there are tons of areas in the city with a far greater need. But arguably, if Fulton Market is gonna be part of downtown, it deserves a downtown station spacing. Ideally they would have skipped Morgan in the first place, and built two stations at Racine and Halsted.

I also questioned the architect from GREC about saving the Hollenbach building on Lake... the proposed facades on the hotel podium are pretty generic, I don't know why they wouldn't save the beautiful facade they already have on site. GREC already did this with a similar historic building at the Ace Hotel. He said they were "still considering it"...

BonoboZill4 · #**1771** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 1:23 AM**

Thanks for showing up and representing for us ardecila!

aaron38 · #**1772** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 3:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

OK, so I was at the meeting for 800 W Lake. Ald. Burnett said he will be pushing for a new L stop at Halsted to replace the one that was removed in the 90s … Ideally they would have skipped Morgan in the first place, and built two stations at Racine and Halsted.

At that spacing they could put a station at Elizabeth if the demand is ever there for it.

OrdoSeclorum · #**1773** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 1:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

^I’m pro-public transit, and very anti-NIMBY, but how could they forgo parking in both those proposals? The West Loop is an absolute nightmare for autos. I have to swing down there from the north burbs for meetings and it’s always a great ordeal. This goes against my being; but MORE PARKING PLEASE

Parking CREATES traffic. If you add parking things will get worse, not better. PLUS the one thing we should never do is think about making our streets work better for people who are *driving in from the burbs*. I walk to Fulton Market and it's great. It would be much less great. Places that are good for cars are bad for people.

k1052 · #**1774** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 1:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

^I’m pro-public transit, and very anti-NIMBY, but how could they forgo parking in both those proposals? The West Loop is an absolute nightmare for autos. I have to swing down there from the north burbs for meetings and it’s always a great ordeal. This goes against my being; but MORE PARKING PLEASE

This is like how trying to reduce highway congestion through adding lanes doesn't work. Making more space for cars causes more cars to show up.

Improve city transit and Metra instead.

k1052 · #**1775** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 1:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

I dunno if CTA will listen, since Morgan is only 1/4 mile away... this site isn't exactly a transit desert, and there are tons of areas in the city with a far greater need. But arguably, if Fulton Market is gonna be part of downtown, it deserves a downtown station spacing. Ideally they would have skipped Morgan in the first place, and built two stations at Racine and Halsted.

This seems a little too close maybe. One thing that constantly irritates me about Morgan is that the secondary exits don't span to the next block east or have high barrier gate entries so you have to make an extra crossing and walk the full block.

Handro · #**1776** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 3:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

Parking CREATES traffic. If you add parking things will get worse, not better. PLUS the one thing we should never do is think about making our streets work better for people who are *driving in from the burbs*. I walk to Fulton Market and it's great. It would be much less great. Places that are good for cars are bad for people.

I understand induced demand, but parking is SO limited in an area swelling with new residents, visitors, and workers that a sizable portion of the traffic there is probably people circling looking for a space.

People will drive always drive in Chicago--while we want to offer as many alternatives as possible, we'll never have the transit coverage of NYC.

west-town-brad · #**1777** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 3:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handro

I understand induced demand, but parking is SO limited in an area swelling with new residents, visitors, and workers that a sizable portion of the traffic there is probably people circling looking for a space.

People will drive always drive in Chicago--while we want to offer as many alternatives as possible, we'll never have the transit coverage of NYC.

the amazing transit coverage in NYC must be the reason for such little 24-hour automobile traffic there.

Investing In Chicago · #**1778** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 3:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

the amazing transit coverage in NYC must be the reason for such little 24-hour automobile traffic there.

I read somewhere once that ~80% of vehicles in Manhattan are either Taxi's/Delivery Trucks/Other Livery Driver.

Handro · #**1779** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 4:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

the amazing transit coverage in NYC must be the reason for such little 24-hour automobile traffic there.

Cute, but it is demonstrably easier to get around NYC sans car than Chicago. Certainly the 6m daily population of the 20 square mile ISLAND of Manhattan has more to do with the traffic there than anything transit related.

But feel free to have guests of hotels in the West Loop that they just need to wait in the January cold for a bus that will take them 30 minutes to go less than a mile to the blue line.

LouisVanDerWright · #**1780** Posted **Oct 4, 2019, 4:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handro

People will drive always drive in Chicago--while we want to offer as many alternatives as possible, we'll never have the transit coverage of NYC.

That's fine, let them drive. Also let them pay the costs of their choices themselves. There is no reason to foist the costs of the negative externalities of individual choices onto developers or the end users or tenants of their projects.

If you drive to the West Loop, then prepare to pay for it and still have to walk several blocks. That's no one's problem but those who choose to drive.