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View Poll Results: Should Ottawa be officially bilingual?
Yes, Ottawa should be officially bilingual. 112 56.00%
No, Ottawa should not be officially bilingual. 63 31.50%
Yes, Gatineau should take the same initiative. 62 31.00%
No, gatineau should not take the same initiative. 17 8.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 200. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 1:28 AM
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
Yes, if, and only if, Gatineau requires English, and it can get exempted from the French-language requirements of Quebec.
Until the day Gatineau separates from Quebec - something I would support - the above isn't going to happen. Therefore, Ottawa should not be officially bilingual.

The existing provincial requirements for French services in Ontario communities where populations warrant is sufficient. That said, I have long been in favour of Ottawa being separate from Ontario. It can't be easy to be the second most populous municipality in Ontario but be so far removed from the GTA that it can be easy to get ignored by Queen's Park. Tim Hudak committed political suicide in Ottawa during the last provincial election campaign by telling the city it wouldn't fund Phase 2 of its LRT project, and that alienated a lot of voters, especially once the mayor accused Hudak of focusing too much on the GTA.
I don't understand why you make the connection. Gatineau is not Canada's capital city.
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 1:31 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I think the NCR is already a microcosm of Canada anyway, with its two unilingual sections, a main Anglo one, and a smaller Franco one. It doesn't bug me at all.

Who cares about the municipal level... it doesn't change anything to the Federal government's bilingualism, or lack thereof. Anyone who works for the Fed govt can already live in the official language of their choice in the area.
It would not be difficult to live in Gatineau entirely in English. To live entirely in French in Ottawa, if not impossible, would be quite a challenge.

Wouldn't you see it as having symbolic importance?
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 1:35 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
It would not be difficult to live in Gatineau entirely in English. To live entirely in French in Ottawa, if not impossible, would be quite a challenge.

Wouldn't you see it as having symbolic importance?
Who cares about symbolic importance. This is about municipal government, which should reflect the population it serves.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 1:37 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Wouldn't you see it as having symbolic importance?
In my opinion, the symbolic importance is already included in the choice of location for the "new" permanent capital on the Quebec-Ontario border. Previous capitals were either in one or the other.

You want to work for the govt in the capital and live in French in Quebec, you can. You want to work for the govt in the capital and live in English in Anglo Canada, you can.
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Who cares about symbolic importance. This is about municipal government, which should reflect the population it serves.
Well in that case, Ottawa should have been bilingual since Confederation. Better late than never!
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 3:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug View Post
Absolutely not. Official Bilingualism is affirmative action by another name. It makes speaking two languages the most important job requirement to potentially exclude more competent candidates. Most government jobs do not involve engaging the public and with self service technology, the percentage continues to decline.
God forbid we exclude unqualified people.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 3:17 AM
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
Yes, if, and only if, Gatineau requires English, and it can get exempted from the French-language requirements of Quebec.
Gatineau is not the capital of Canada. What's more, Quebec is a false dichotomy of the ROC. It ain't the same thing at all.
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I don't understand why you make the connection. Gatineau is not Canada's capital city.
Gatineau is part of the NCR and there are many federal jobs based in Gatineau. The National Capital Commission (funded by all Canadians) helps to fund projects in Gatineau. The National Museum of Civilization is located in Gatineau. It is defacto part of the Nation's capital.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 4:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I don't understand why you make the connection. Gatineau is not Canada's capital city.
Your right, but the federal government has a goal of having 25% of National Capital Region, federal employees working in Gatineau. I believe they are at 23% right now. There is also a push to have more national cultural institutions located in Gatineau.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...neau-1.1399665

"These moves will shift the distribution of public employees closer to the federal government's goal of 75 per cent in Ottawa and 25 per cent in Gatineau. Right now, about 20 per cent of employees work in Gatineau.

NDP MP Françoise Boivin, who represents the Gatineau riding, told Radio-Canada the 75-to-25 ratio is a long-awaited promise the government needs to deliver on.

Gatineau city council believes it will gain about $8 million in municipal taxes per year from the new buildings."
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 4:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ramako View Post
What does deeming a city "bi-lingual" actually entail?
Here is a short history of the City of Ottawa and official bilingualism (from Wiki)

"One controversial aspect of the City of Ottawa Act is the manner in which it addresses official bilingualism within Ottawa's municipal government. Prior to the enactment of the Act, Glen Shortliffe, a special advisor appointed by the provincial government to make recommendations on municipal governance in Ottawa-Carleton, recommended in 1999 that the new amalgamated city of Ottawa be designated as officially bilingual, with municipal services available in both English and French.

The provincial government of the time, led by the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario, refused to enshrine official bilingualism in the City of Ottawa Act, but made clear that the new city was free to establish its own language policy. In 2001, Ottawa City Council passed a bilingualism policy modelled on the policy of the former Ottawa-Carleton Region, whereby English and French were both recognized as having the same rights, status and privileges within the municipal government, while allowing for differences in services based on local needs throughout the amalgamated city.

In 2003, the Ontario Liberal Party returned to power at the provincial level, and the new Premier, Dalton McGuinty, publicly stated that the city should be designated bilingual in the Act. Rather than reignite the controversy through a designation, however, the province ultimately announced amendments to the Act in 2004 (which came into force in 2005) to require the city of Ottawa to have a policy respecting its use of French and English. City council revised its bilingualism policy in 2004."

And here is the City of Ottawa bilingualism policy:

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/your-c...gualism-policy

Bilingualism Policy

REFERENCE NO: ACS2001-CMS-OCM-0002
ORIGINATING DEPARTMENT: Corporate Services
BRANCH: Secretariat Services
DELEGATED AUTHORITY: n/a
EFFECTIVE DATE: 9 May 2001
LAST REVISION DATE: 15 November 2004
REVIEW DATE: 11 April 2012

Declaration of Principle

The City of Ottawa recognizes both official languages as having the same rights, status and privileges.

To this end, the City of Ottawa must:

Language of Work
•Encourage employees to work in the official language of their choice;
•Provide appropriate language training;
•Provide assistance to employees who must or wish to write in French;
•Develop and organize training programs in both official languages.

Language of Service
•Take the necessary steps to provide at all times the appropriate number of bilingual employees within work units;
•By appointing employees meeting the language requirements of the unit where the vacancy occurs or by providing language training to new incumbents 1 .

Cultural Programs
•Ensure that cultural programs aimed at one official language group be developed by employees having full knowledge of the appropriate culture.

Complaints
•The Secretariat Services Branch (French Language Services Division) will follow up on citizens' complaints concerning services in both official languages.

Communication
•That all documents published by the City of Ottawa or its agencies and intended for the public (internal and external), be published in both official languages.
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Would you agree that those who do interact with the public, such as police officers, paramedics and fire fighters (jobs for which the pool of candidates is way greater than positions available) should be fully bilingual?
Yes. Most office workers would not fall into this category.
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I think the NCR is already a microcosm of Canada anyway, with its two unilingual sections, a main Anglo one, and a smaller Franco one. It doesn't bug me at all.
It is a microcosm of Canada from the 1800's.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 12:28 PM
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That's what I thought - the policy is pretty close to official bilingualism.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 2:56 PM
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Why is the total of the votes counting for a total of 132,36 % ?
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 3:01 PM
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What I find odd, is that a francophone with barely passable English are sometimes considered bilingual, yet if an Anglo had the same command of French they aren't even close.

True story...We did some work for the NCR, and their supervisor could barely speak English...He did stumble through though...I'm willing to bet that had he been an Anglo stumbling through French, he may have not even got the job in the first place...I'm not trying to spark a debate, but these were my observations, and this wasn't my only experience....Having said that, yes the City of Ottawa should be officially bilingual, and yes Ottawa and Gatineau should of been made an autonomous region much like Washington...The region should of not belong to either province much like other countries have done with their capitals..I think Mexico comes to mind as well..Not sure though.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
What I find odd, is that a francophone with barely passable English are sometimes considered bilingual, yet if an Anglo had the same command of French they aren't even close.

True story...We did some work for the NCR, and their supervisor could barely speak English...He did stumble through though...I'm willing to bet that had he been an Anglo stumbling through French, he may have not even got the job in the first place...I'm not trying to spark a debate, but these were my observations, and this wasn't my only experience....Having said that, yes the City of Ottawa should be officially bilingual, and yes Ottawa and Gatineau should of been made an autonomous region much like Washington...The region should of not belong to either province much like other countries have done with their capitals..I think Mexico comes to mind as well..Not sure though.
At least some departments have made it easier for Anglophones to get a bilingual qualification in recent years, in my experience. If you are talking about people with what in the federal government is called "B" level, the level of fluency doesn't need to be very high in either language to qualify. That being said, I think there can be an element of subjectivity to any language testing.
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by FrAnKs View Post
Why is the total of the votes counting for a total of 132,36 % ?
Because you can vote for more than one option.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Gatineau is part of the NCR and there are many federal jobs based in Gatineau. The National Capital Commission (funded by all Canadians) helps to fund projects in Gatineau. The National Museum of Civilization is located in Gatineau. It is defacto part of the Nation's capital.
That's exactly why I said what I said above. The two cities are far too intertwined via the NCC to consider them separately. It would be no different than pretending Nepean wasn't part of Ottawa prior to municipal amalgamation - different city council, but same city. Or a more extreme example, pretending Scarborough wasn't part of Toronto before 1998.
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2015, 5:36 PM
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2015, 1:32 PM
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Originally Posted by khabibulin View Post
Your right, but the federal government has a goal of having 25% of National Capital Region, federal employees working in Gatineau. I believe they are at 23% right now. There is also a push to have more national cultural institutions located in Gatineau.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...neau-1.1399665

"These moves will shift the distribution of public employees closer to the federal government's goal of 75 per cent in Ottawa and 25 per cent in Gatineau. Right now, about 20 per cent of employees work in Gatineau.

NDP MP Françoise Boivin, who represents the Gatineau riding, told Radio-Canada the 75-to-25 ratio is a long-awaited promise the government needs to deliver on.

Gatineau city council believes it will gain about $8 million in municipal taxes per year from the new buildings."
Not saying this is what you said, but job locations is not the same as job holders. These jobs may be in Gatineau but a lot of them (in downtown Gatineau - Vieux Hull - the majority in fact) are held down by Ontario residents. Of course, it's still a boon for Gatineau in terms of in-lieu tax money from the buildings and other spinoffs. And of course many people from Gatineau work in Ottawa too.
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