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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 5:41 PM
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Only let it happen if Northern Ontario gets to leave Ontario.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post


All it takes is one issue and in NB that issue generally revolves around linguistic divide.
Could it be because some New Brunswickers will latch onto to anything they can find that might rid them of their "French problem" once and for all? Be it demographic change or political reorganization?
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 5:49 PM
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Could it be because some New Brunswickers will latch onto to anything they can find that might rid them of their "French problem" once and for all? Be it demographic change or political reorganization?
Is this passive aggressive or am I reading in to this too much?

It's entirely possible. Anglophones, again wrongly, blame Francophones for bureaucratic bloat and duplication of services. Whether or not Bilingualism actually costs that much a year (it doesn't, really) it can't be helped for being criticized: Duplication of education services, of health services. Children who speak different languages unable to ride school buses together. It's all bad optics in a province that isn't split 50/50 linguistically in every single corner. If Anglophones in NB were given a chance to join a larger political union at the potential to reduce Francophone influence in local government they may go for it. That's only if they view the reorganization of the NB government as a lost cause.

Again, i've worked in enough places throughout this province to know that Anglophones will use anything as an excuse to complain about Francophones, most of the time entirely wrongly. It happens.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 5:50 PM
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I've had people complain to me about the French for literally any problem they have under the sun, from the economy to auto insurance rates to property taxes. We're talking about people that resent Moncton because of the French and refuse to go there or acknowledge its importance as a provincial and regional hub.
There's a subset of Saint Johnners who have a massive chip on their shoulder because of perceived insults and inequities hurled at the city over the last two centuries. They resent the fact that Fredericton is the political capital of the province and they resent the rapid growth of Moncton as (increasingly) the main economic engine for the province. These people still cling to the belief that Saint John's status in NB should be similar to Halifax's status in NS.

It doesn't matter to this Saint John subset that Moncton is a majority English city. It gives them an easy target to rail against Moncton as being "French" and that bilingualism has robbed Saint John of its place in the province and of it's prosperity. These people are just displacing their anger and resentment and attacking the wrong target.........
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 6:03 PM
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There is certainly a lot of room and probably even a little public support for the amalgamation of certain government functions in the Maritimes, even if it's simply joint negotiations on any issues with Ottawa.

I think you could eventually see some sort of Maritime union that takes over many of the responsibilities of government, such as health and education. But full political union, with a single capital, etc., I can't imagine that would ever happen. So many people would have to be bought off. Ottawa might have to provide a few more MPs than simply adding the provincial totals together. The ruckus over where the capital should go will probably end up with so many awful compromises that the solution is more expensive than the status quo. A Strasbourg solution.

Besides, then we'd be left dangling off the east end of the country as the smallest province in population, making our higher profile/sense of entitlement even more bizarre.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 6:04 PM
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Only if Saskatchewan and Manitoba become Saskatoba.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 6:29 PM
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Only if Saskatchewan and Manitoba become Saskatoba.
It's called "Mansask".
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 7:04 PM
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It's called "Mansask".
I thought that was a gay bar in Saskatoon?
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Is this passive aggressive or am I reading in to this too much?

It's entirely possible. Anglophones, again wrongly, blame Francophones for bureaucratic bloat and duplication of services. Whether or not Bilingualism actually costs that much a year (it doesn't, really) it can't be helped for being criticized: Duplication of education services, of health services. Children who speak different languages unable to ride school buses together. It's all bad optics in a province that isn't split 50/50 linguistically in every single corner. If Anglophones in NB were given a chance to join a larger political union at the potential to reduce Francophone influence in local government they may go for it. That's only if they view the reorganization of the NB government as a lost cause.

Again, i've worked in enough places throughout this province to know that Anglophones will use anything as an excuse to complain about Francophones, most of the time entirely wrongly. It happens.
Well, it can't be passive aggressive on my part when you basically just proved my point, at length, with your post!
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 7:47 PM
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People are getting ahead of themselves in assuming the Maritimes are doing so poorly that something needs to be changed. What was the debt-to-GDP ratio for these provinces in 2016?

NB - 0.42
NS - 0.37
PEI - 0.35

Some others:
QC - 0.48
ON - 0.40
NL - 0.50

Most of these were roughly unchanged year-over-year except for NL, which went up by 7%. NL is unique in terms of its fiscal problems right now because it relies so heavily on oil and gas revenues.

But we keep hearing about demographic collapse in the Maritimes. When the population dwindles, they will not be able to handle their debts. How did the population change in the Maritimes from 2015-2016?

PEI +1.3%
NS +0.6%
NB + 0.3%

Maybe the population is still managing to grow but the economy is stalled. What is GDP growth expected to look like in 2016 and 2017?

P.E.I. +2.3 +1.7
N.S. +1.5 +1.6
N.B. -0.4 +1.4

(N.B. with lower population growth than some other provinces, the GDP growth in the Maritimes works out to larger growth in the GDP per capita.)

If there is ever a serious fiscal or political problem in the region then the afflicted province(s) will barter away power piecemeal and maybe merge if things get really bad. That's not what's happening right now though. PEI is singled out most frequently but it's doing fine; better than almost any similar area in Canada.

Note also that the discussion about the capital going in this or that place to minimize upset also makes no sense in light of the previous point. If a province collapses and needs to be bailed out, it will not be in a position to dictate what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Status quo in NB

Likely increased bilingualism or francophone services in areas like Clare, Ile Madame, Chéticamp, Abram-Village and Mont-Carmel

Status quo most everywhere else
A while back I saw some polling data about how Canadians in each province felt about bilingual services. The Maritimes were some of the most supportive if not the most supportive provinces*. I don't think the region is broadly against Acadians lobbying for better services in the region, although many anglophones are ignorant about what services communities like that need in order to thrive. If Acadians were to play their cards right they could probably get lots of special treatment. The story about some people in Saint John complaining about bilingual street signs is basically an anecdote that isn't representative of the region as a whole.

* Acadians have a kind of "founder" status in the Maritimes and there is still collective guilt about events like the deportation. Consequently, it is much easier for them politically to ask for special treatment.

Last edited by someone123; Jan 8, 2017 at 7:58 PM.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Well, it can't be passive aggressive on my part when you basically just proved my point, at length, with your post!
We had such a lovely chat about exogamous francophone language and now this.

I'm not advocating for any of these positions merely just relaying what I see on the ground.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 7:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Just put me in a corner why don't you. I cite statistics but I must be playing sides. We had such a lovely chat about exogamous francophone language and now this.

I'm not advocating for any of these positions merely just relaying what I see on the ground.
That's exactly what I am often doing too. Sorry if it was misunderstood - I can be a bit irreverent and sarcastic sometimes!
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 7:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
People are getting ahead of themselves in assuming the Maritimes are doing so poorly that something needs to be changed. What was the debt-to-GDP ratio for these provinces in 2016?

NB - 0.42
NS - 0.37
PEI - 0.35

Some others:
QC - 0.48
ON - 0.40
NL - 0.50

Most of these were roughly unchanged year-over-year except for NL, which went up by 7%.

But we keep hearing about demographic collapse in the Maritimes. When the population dwindles, they will not be able to handle their debts. How did the population change in the Maritimes from 2015-2016?

PEI +1.3%
NS +0.6%
NB + 0.3%

Maybe the population is still managing to grow but the economy is stalled. What is GDP growth expected to look like in 2016 and 2017?

P.E.I. +2.3 +1.7
N.S. +1.5 +1.6
N.B. -0.4 +1.4

(N.B. with lower population growth than some other provinces, the GDP growth in the Maritimes works out to larger growth in the GDP per capita.)

If there is ever a serious fiscal or political problem in the region then the afflicted province(s) will barter away power piecemeal and maybe merge if things get really bad. That's not what's happening right now though. Everyone singles out PEI but it's doing fine; better than almost any similar area in Canada.

Note also that the discussion about the capital going in this or that place to minimize upset also makes no sense in light of the previous point. If a province collapses and needs to be bailed out, it will not be in a position to dictate what happens.



A while back I saw some polling data about how Canadians in each province felt about bilingual services. The Maritimes were some of the most supportive if not the most supportive provinces. I don't think the region is broadly against Acadians lobbying for better services in the region, although many anglophones are ignorant about what services communities like that need in order to thrive. If Acadians were to play their cards right they could probably get lots of special treatment. The story about some people in Saint John complaining about bilingual street signs is basically an anecdote that isn't representative of the region as a whole.
Surely it's about equality, not "special treatment".
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
We had such a lovely chat about exogamous francophone language and now this.

I'm not advocating for any of these positions merely just relaying what I see on the ground.
I actually find discussions much more satisfying when people also relay their observations as opposed to just their own opinions, of which they may be the only one that has it.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 7:56 PM
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Surely it's about equality, not "special treatment".
Those words are synonymous for some people.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 7:57 PM
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That's exactly what I am often doing too. Sorry if it was misunderstood - I can be a bit irreverent and sarcastic sometimes!
It's all good.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 8:02 PM
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Those words are synonymous for some people.
I was making a stronger statement; they could likely get some advantages (in terms of representation, cultural funding, employment, etc.) that the population at large doesn't.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 8:03 PM
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I was making a stronger statement; they could likely get some advantages (in terms of representation, cultural funding, employment, etc.) that the population at large doesn't.
I am not the one who reacted (initially), though I did get your point.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 8:04 PM
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I guess the main benefit would be a stronger national voice for the region.
I'm not sure that would necessarily be the case. The other provinces would have to agree to the merger, and I doubt they'd allow for the region's continued over-representation in Ottawa. At roughly one half of Alberta's population, the new province would have four times as many seats in the Senate. The formula for assigning seats in the House of Commons would also likely have to change as the senatorial and grandfather clauses that protect the Maritime provinces' current over-representation would no longer apply (at least not in the eyes of the other provinces). Even if the number of MPs from the region remained the same, it is possible that rural PEI would lose seats to urban NS/NB.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2017, 8:28 PM
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I'm not sure that would necessarily be the case. The other provinces would have to agree to the merger, and I doubt they'd allow for the region's continued over-representation in Ottawa. At roughly one half of Alberta's population, the new province would have four times as many seats in the Senate. The formula for assigning seats in the House of Commons would also likely have to change as the senatorial and grandfather clauses that protect the Maritime provinces' current over-representation would no longer apply (at least not in the eyes of the other provinces). Even if the number of MPs from the region remained the same, it is possible that rural PEI would lose seats to urban NS/NB.
Indeed. In fact PEI could only justify about 1.4 seats in the HoC rather than the four seats it is guaranteed now. In such a scenario, I would expect one seat for Queens/Kings County in PEI, with Prince County combined with eastern Westmorland County NB for the second seat.
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