HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #81  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 4:54 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 67,664
That map shows the connections, but it doesn't show the frequencies of the flights nor the number of passengers.

For what's it's worth, I have tons of relatives in NB and when they fly they almost always connect in Montreal and Toronto, not Halifax.
__________________
Amber alerts welcome at any time
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:08 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is online now
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by q12 View Post
Air Canada's and Westjet's route maps seem to suggest otherwise...

Air Canada

Source: Air Canada enRoute Magazine

Westjet

Source: Westjet Magazine
We look so much more important to WestJet than to Air Canada.

Halifax used to be a much more common connection for us - at least, in my personal experience. I remember, growing up, having to stop in Halifax all the time on the way to anywhere, even Europe.

These days it seems to be less common with most of my connections going to Toronto or Montreal. There are still lots of flights to Halifax, though.

If I had to get to Halifax tomorrow, there are 40-something options (more than one option per flight, obvs) ranging from $680 to $2,100.

https://www.google.ca/flights/#searc...yyt+to+halifax
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:15 PM
q12's Avatar
q12 q12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Halifax
Posts: 4,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Also, the only NB city within a decent driving distance to Halifax is Moncton, and, with about 700,000 PAX per year at the GMIA, it's pretty obvious that most Monctonians fly out of our home airport. If people from Freddy or SJ are going to drive to an airport other than their own, they will drive to Bangor, not Halifax.
Hey at least the Moncton airport gets more passengers than London, Ontario's Airport...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That map shows the connections, but it doesn't show the frequencies of the flights nor the number of passengers.

For what's it's worth, I have tons of relatives in NB and when they fly they almost always connect in Montreal and Toronto, not Halifax.
A quick survey in Halifax Stanfield's parkade or Park'N Fly lot especially in charter season you would see quite a few P.E.I. and N.B. plates.

Halifax Stanfield's passenger numbers grew by more than 5% in 2016 (Source: Chronicle Herald: Stanfield airport emerges as major cargo hub Published January 4, 2017), which will put it very close to 4 million passengers processed in 2016. These passengers weren't all from Nova Scotia.

According to the herald article Dublin, Amsterdam or Paris could all be possible future passenger destinations as they are contact some major carriers such as British Airways.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:25 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is offline
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 34,342


Bashing London again q12???

FWIW, here's the link to the complete sun flight schedule for this year out of the GMIA (YQM - Moncton)
http://www.cyqm.ca/site/media/gmia/2...16-2017(1).pdf

Orlando, Florida - Air Transat, Sunwing, WestJet
Cancun, Mexico - Air Transat, Sunwing, WestJet
Punta Cana, DR - Air Transat, Sunwing
Puerto Plata, DR - Sunwing
Varadero, Cuba - Air Transat, Sunwing
Montego Bay, Jamaica - Sunwing

Not too shabby. We're able to look after most of the sun destinations ourself thanks. Like I said though, Halifax is handy for direct European flights, as long as you're willing to drive down there.
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:26 PM
Nashe's Avatar
Nashe Nashe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Posts: 2,452
I'm not sure what a discussion about airports has to do with that for regional government. The two would be independent, I'd imagine. I'm sure fewer people fly out of Victoria than Vancouver.
A city being a seat of government doesn't really need to have much to do with much else than choosing where it goes and who gets to benefit from all the spin offs (housing, etc).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:30 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is offline
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 34,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorkuta View Post
I'm not sure what a discussion about airports has to do with that for regional government. The two would be independent, I'd imagine.
It doesn't, but as usual with a thread such as this, it degenerates into a regional pissing contest........
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:37 PM
q12's Avatar
q12 q12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Halifax
Posts: 4,500
Well since there seems to be 0% chance of the Province of Nova Scotia, the Province of Prince Edward Island and the Province of New Brunswick becoming the Province of Maritime(s)..? we might as well have some fun.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:59 PM
Nashe's Avatar
Nashe Nashe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Posts: 2,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by q12 View Post
Well since there seems to be 0% chance of the Province of Nova Scotia, the Province of Prince Edward Island and the Province of New Brunswick becoming the Province of Maritime(s)..? we might as well have some fun.
We just have to all go bankrupt at the same time and Ottawa will tell us where the capital will go, haha.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:14 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
We can have twenty pages of discussion on this but at the end of the day I find it entirely difficult to believe that residents in NB and PEI are going to give up their own capitals in favour of moving them to Halifax. There would have to be significant reason to do this.
Residents of NS would also be unlikely to want to give up their capital. NS is the largest of the three provinces and arguably has the best long-term prospects and most political clout, so it is hard to see why the terms of Maritime union would be dominated by residents of PEI and NB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
The last thing an under-urbanized region with a relatively tiny alpha city needs is to have that very alpha city undermined.
Yes, I feel like these discussions get hijacked by the anti-Halifax crowd (the whole obsession around the capital not being in Halifax isn't even terribly important or interesting) and that a lot of the anti-Halifax arguments are sloppy. For example, it's common to hear that Halifax is privileged yet also an unimportant and small city. Which one is it? What is the point of privilege if it doesn't result in power and importance?

This might be controversial but I think the most likely setup in the Maritimes in the future will be for the region to become even more dominated by the Halifax-Moncton corridor, and for that corridor to be more heavily dominated by the Halifax area, because it has some unique advantages within the region due to its size, history, and location. On factor is that it's probably an easier sell to get highly skilled workers to move to Halifax than it is to get them to move to other parts of the region (in the same way, Halifax is disadvantaged with respect to larger cities like Toronto and Vancouver).

The fact that Moncton is doing well and Saint John has been treading water is evidence that this concentration is happening.

The pattern of cities acting as "hubs" for small towns and rural areas has been in decline for decades in the Maritimes. The Maritimes are moving toward city-regions more slowly than other parts of North America but the change is still happening. I don't believe this because I am a Halifax booster, nor am I suggesting it is the best outcome. I just think it's how the wider economy is going. Every other part of Canada has seen more and more economic activity concentrated in a few metropolitan areas. The Maritimes can either embrace and encourage this or fight against the much larger economic current. Which strategy is more likely to be successful?

Last edited by someone123; Jan 9, 2017 at 6:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:22 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 41,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
... then it is odd to take it for granted that the most central location (for some definition of central) must be 50 km into NB, beyond the route to PEI.
Because Moncton is the only decently-sized city that's in a good location for a unified Maritime capital. Otherwise, sure, Aulac/Amherst is unarguably better, in terms of location.

Given even a Monctonian agrees that Moncton doesn't have enough gravitas to be a capital, you might as well want to start from scratch in Aulac, actually. Pull an Ottawa and place the brand new Parliament building straight on the Missaguash river to make sure both NBers and NSians are happy with the compromise location.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:25 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Given even a Monctonian agrees that Moncton doesn't have enough gravitas to be a capital, you might as well want to start from scratch in Aulac, actually. Pull an Ottawa and place the brand new Parliament building straight on the Missaguash river to make sure both NBers and NSians are happy.
This is what I've been saying. I suggested Tidnish a couple pages back for those who want to create a new, geographically central capital. The confluence of the tiny Tidnish river with the Northumberland Strait is where the NS, NB, and PEI borders meet.

(But this is still unlikely to be how anything plays out. Instead, the 3 provinces would merge specific government functions.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:27 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 41,956
Alternatively, the capital could be Cape Spear NB, provided a new bridge is built going due south to connect it to the freeway at Oxford NS.

Geographically, that would be optimal (judged by the standard of "trying to rub as few people as possible the wrong way in the three provinces").
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:29 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 41,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
This is what I've been saying. I suggested Tidnish a couple pages back for those who want to create a new, geographically central capital. The confluence of the tiny Tidnish river with the Northumberland Strait is where the NS, NB, and PEI borders meet.
I posted above about Cape Spear without having read this (or even anything beyond the post I replied to, on page 3).

Clearly, we agree on the basics there
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:33 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 41,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
I think any serious move towards Maritime amalgamation would be for greater political clout, not specifically to save money.
The irony, of course, is that Maritime amalgamation would be the perfect opportunity to readjust your generous allocations of Senate seats and MPs.

The way for PEI to have the greatest political clout (with 4 MPs in Ottawa) is most definitely the status quo.....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:41 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
The irony, of course, is that Maritime amalgamation would be the perfect opportunity to readjust your generous allocations of Senate seats and MPs.

The way for PEI to have the greatest political clout (with 4 MPs in Ottawa) is most definitely the status quo.....
If the question is really about the Maritimes getting things done then I think the best way to do that is to remain as 3 provinces but operate as one in important areas. This already happens in some cases. For example, I am not sure how far along it is, but the Atlantic provinces have tried to rationalize some of their government procurement processes so that the 4 provinces act as a single buyer. They've also tried to fix labour mobility issues so trades and other workers can easily work around the region (as opposed to leaving it entirely). It's obviously hugely useful for PEI to negotiate as a part of a region of 2.3 million people, even if they need to compromise a bit.

The Maritimes need to also work together to improve transportation around the region. There are 3 potential or actual major highway links between the Maritimes and Quebec/New England and they are all poor. The northern Trans-Canada route is not fully twinned in Quebec and the Bangor-Saint John route isn't fully twinned either. The optimal route for travel within Canada, a highway from Fredericton to Sherbrooke, doesn't even exist. It makes sense for NS and PEI to lobby for and perhaps pay for some of this infrastructure. I think the comparatively bad infrastructure is a big part of why the Maritimes have done relatively poorly economically. People say they are remote but that has as much to do with transportation infrastructure as it has to do with distance.

I think trying to get these things done would be more useful than arguing over where to build a new capital.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:45 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 41,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Charlottetown is the appealing non-partisan selection for Capital but it can't be denied that Halifax is appealing on the basis of scale and government structure. If the entire point of MU is to appear larger and more powerful and more in-control of its destiny it would be weird for bureaucrats/governmental officials from elsewhere in the country to be shown and flown into our new capital - a town of 10,000, or 50,000, or whatever. Show them that big urban centre and show them what we can do with it. The entire point of this exercise would be to have more clout on the national and international stage. Difficult to have that perception if our capital is in a small town.

We can have twenty pages of discussion on this but at the end of the day I find it entirely difficult to believe that residents in NB and PEI are going to give up their own capitals in favour of moving them to Halifax. There would have to be significant reason to do this. We can disagree on how capitals should be chosen and what indicators should be used but from a public opinion idea I can't see Halifax flying too well with most NBers, as logical a choice as it is.

As an aside, I think one of the bargaining chips which would theoretically be used to entice PEI to join a prospective MU would be to give them the capital. It seems like an alright tradeoff for a province losing their provincial designation and their overabundance of seats in the House and Senate.
I agree that this merger is pure fantasy. A much more realistic path to "greater clout" would be a federal Atlantic Party. It would currently hold the balance of power in Ottawa, FYI...

The Bloc held the balance of power in the past at various times (under Paul Martin and under Stephen Harper), it's statistically very possible for a regional party to achieve that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:56 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 67,664
Well, I am not anti-Halifax and happen to think it would be the obvious capital for a united Maritime or united Atlantic province.

But that does not change the fact that everyone I know in NB flies via Montreal and Toronto...
__________________
Amber alerts welcome at any time
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 6:59 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 41,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Well, I am not anti-Halifax and happen to think it would be the obvious capital for a united Maritime or united Atlantic province.
I still think it's worth mentioning that Vancouver, Montreal and Calgary didn't need to be capitals to get where they are.

(Sure, the capital of BC was within Greater Vancouver at some point, and Montreal was the capital of Canada for a while, but that's got about zero to do with their current position as Canada's 2nd, 3rd and 4th cities.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 7:09 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is offline
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 34,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I still think it's worth mentioning that Vancouver, Montreal and Calgary didn't need to be capitals to get where they are.

(Sure, the capital of BC was within Greater Vancouver at some point, and Montreal was the capital of Canada for a while, but that's got about zero to do with their current position as Canada's 2nd, 3rd and 4th cities.)
That's sort of my point too.

You don't need to be a capital to be an alpha city if you are already the business/commercial centre of the region. Halifax will continue to do well whether it's the capital or not.

Being a capital city however is far more important to Charlottetown's wellbeing.......
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #100  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 7:23 PM
geotag277 geotag277 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,091
Just wanted to share this chart which shows PEI is decidedly middle of the road concerning provincial public sector compared to it's peers in the region.



It seems Newfoundland and Nova Scotia would have more to lose on a per capita basis with provincial responsibilities moving elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:40 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.