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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 1:05 AM
geotag277 geotag277 is offline
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
new elevators cost millions. That's why condos triplex might be a better investment in the long term.
Where are you getting "millions"?

From what I've seen entire elevator replacement cost is typically in the half a million to one million range, with service life extending to 35-40 years.

Easily covered by a properly managed reserve fund. And very unlikely to require early complete replacement due to warranties and adhering to a proper maintenance schedule.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 1:07 AM
geotag277 geotag277 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
I don't know. I will say some of those special assessments in Calgary would be covered by the developer's warranty program in Toronto. The installation related issues I'm referring to won't be known for a while. Little things like the wrong screws or improperly installed or missing seals.
Would be interesting to compare warranty laws between cities as well.

Alberta just recently (2014) strengthened warranty laws for new home owners.

http://anhwp.com/mandatorywarranty/

I wonder what the gaps would be in Calgary versus Toronto in this area in 2017.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 1:08 AM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
new elevators cost millions. That's why condos triplex might be a better investment in the long term.
You're splitting the costs between hundreds of units. In Toronto, Developers chose speed over the number of elevators as they take up sellable floor space. 3 elevators in a 40 storeys with 380 units is common.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 1:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
Where are you getting "millions"?

From what I've seen entire elevator replacement cost is typically in the half a million to one million range, with service life extending to 35-40 years.

Easily covered by a properly managed reserve fund. And very unlikely to require early complete replacement due to warranties and adhering to a proper maintenance schedule.
I've seen price of $1M for a 16 floors condo tower. maybe it was for 2 towers. anyway, very expensive. the price will likely go up by 2030.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 1:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
Would be interesting to compare warranty laws between cities as well.

Alberta just recently (2014) strengthened warranty laws for new home owners.

http://anhwp.com/mandatorywarranty/

I wonder what the gaps would be in Calgary versus Toronto in this area in 2017.
Yeah it would. I'm not up to date with that anymore and Calgary's market is maturing at a fast pace possibly from outside developers. The program is to their protection afterall.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 1:13 AM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
I've seen price of $1M for a 16 floors condo tower.
edit** read it wrong


That's over a very long life span with the costs split between many units. It's an incremental part of the monthly condos fees. Yearly maintenance in a new build isn't usually estimated to be more than a $1000 per unit.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 1:23 AM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
How many units and how old a building?
112 total (2) , 70's , the original elevator still works.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
112 total (2) , 70's , the original elevator still works.
With routine maintenance. Elevators require a lot of maintenance work to keep them going. Nothing a proper budgeting model can't handle, though.

In the event of an apocalypse or some such, elevators would be one of the first forms of infrastructure to fail due to the routine maintenance they require. Ten years in, the top floors of high rises would be more or less inhabitable due to difficulty of access. Funny enough, this is never really used as a plot device in books or movies about post-apocalyptic societies.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 2:16 AM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Elevator maintenance is a problem for everyone and you can blame the union. It just sucks more in a 40 storey tower opposed to a mid rise or short highrise. The falling glass is mostly SSG curtainwall. Pipes bursting and, in particular, sprinkler heads failing happen in the top office building too. One thing for sure, early occupancy permits need to be stricter as these situation tend to arise in new condos within the first few months of move ins and while construction on the upper floors is still ongoing.
Yes but these are highly visible issues that can't help but come to light. What of all the cut corners on internal systems such as hvac, plumbing, electrical etc.? We're going to see a lot of these get rich quick scheme piles of crap disintegrate prematurely in the coming years. God knows you don't have to be a googlemeister to find info on the subject.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 7:42 AM
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Where are the Torontonians? (other than Whippersnapper)
You guys are the experts when it comes to "Talkin' Condo!".
Is there any truth to this?
Any problems you've encountered?
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 2:32 PM
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I thought this article would be interesting to share. I wouldn't invest in condos for a multitude of reasons, and this is only one of the reasons why:

Quote:

Broken elevators reaching 'crisis' proportions across Canada

Ontario alone logged 4,461 calls from people trapped in elevators last year
Every day of the year, Canadians across the country are finding themselves trapped in faulty elevators, while countless more are suffering through inconvenience and isolation because of elevators that are out of service — and the problem is worsening, an investigation by The Canadian Press has found.

Last year, for example, firefighters in Ontario alone responded to 4,461 calls to extricate people from elevators — more than a dozen a day — and double the number from 2001.

"I don't think we're heading toward a crisis, I believe we're already there," said Rob Isabelle, a mechanical engineer and elevator consultant to property managers and owners.

"If we look at the reliability of a large number of pieces of equipment, it's really the worst it's ever been."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/elev...oken-1.3689394
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
The bills should be encapsulated in the budget that condos fees contribute towards.

FTR the actual bill in terms of capital expenditure is typically in the hundreds of thousands for a high rise, but a 100+ unit high rise which is 5-10 years old should generally have a about million (or more) in the reserve fund at any given time.
Thing is even owning an 80 year old home my yearly maintenance costs were well less than the average two bed condo's yearly maintenance fees.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:08 PM
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I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention of Vancouver's leaky condo crisis, which has resulted in estimated damages of over $4 billion to condos in the region.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:23 PM
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^ Yeah I was going to bring that up... what a mess in the late '90's/ early 2000's. Mostly affected low rise buildings designed without proper roof overhangs and improper moisture barriers, but the new code that caused them to be so airtight also resulted in a lot of condensation inside exterior walls. What a mess.

I owned a condo when I lived in Calgary and I enjoyed it at the time but at this point in my life I am exceptionally happy to live in a single family house. It's not so much the building issues with apartment buildings, it's putting up with other people's crap. From bad neighbours to busybody condo board members, no thanks.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
^ Yeah I was going to bring that up... what a mess in the late '90's/ early 2000's. Mostly affected low rise buildings designed without proper roof overhangs and improper moisture barriers, but the new code that caused them to be so airtight also resulted in a lot of condensation inside exterior walls. What a mess.

I owned a condo when I lived in Calgary and I enjoyed it at the time but at this point in my life I am exceptionally happy to live in a single family house. It's not so much the building issues with apartment buildings, it's putting up with other people's crap. From bad neighbours to busybody condo board members, no thanks.
Condensation, or water infiltration? It seems that some EIFS designs are prone to issues if not done right.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTowner View Post
Yes but these are highly visible issues that can't help but come to light. What of all the cut corners on internal systems such as hvac, plumbing, electrical etc.? We're going to see a lot of these get rich quick scheme piles of crap disintegrate prematurely in the coming years. God knows you don't have to be a googlemeister to find info on the subject.
floor to ceiling windows, quartz counters and designer lighting sell condos. Nobody gives a shit about the HVAC systems as long as they have their pretty finishes and views
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Condensation, or water infiltration? It seems that some EIFS designs are prone to issues if not done right.
It was both, if memory serves. Moisture barriers were not done correctly, and due to Vancouvers' climate they also had issues with vapor barriers trapping moisture inside walls.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Thing is even owning an 80 year old home my yearly maintenance costs were well less than the average two bed condo's yearly maintenance fees.
Indeed. In the first year of owning my century-old rowhouse, I spent about 20 grand on renovations, but that was a once-a-generation thing (new roof), a bit of asbestos remediation, and then a bunch of cosmetic repairs.

This year is a different picture. I save about 150 dollars a month for maintenance for my own personal reserve fund, and on top of that I'll spend maybe 500-600 dollars all year. SO that's about $2,400 annually, or $200 a month.

According to this Star story, Toronto's city-wide average condo fees are about 530 dollars a month.

When I was deciding whether to buy a house or a condo, I was seriously swayed towards the house by how high condo fees seemed to be. But I'm in a relatively affordable city. In Toronto I wouldn't have had that choice; instead it would've been between renting and a condo. (And renting probably would have won out.)
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:44 PM
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^ we re-did the roof on our house last year, new furnce, hwt and a/c the year before and upgraded the insulation. Those things add value to a house whereas the new roof on an apartment building really dosen't raise the value of the individual suite to any appreciable degree
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2017, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
^ we re-did the roof on our house last year, new furnce, hwt and a/c the year before and upgraded the insulation. Those things add value to a house whereas the new roof on an apartment building really dosen't raise the value of the individual suite to any appreciable degree
It does make a condo easier to sell though. Anything that's done to the building that reduces the chance of a large assessment for future owners is going to make a condo easier to sell. Things like roofs, boiler repair, windows, rainscreening...
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