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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 12:42 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by O-tacular;7678420[B
]I live in a townhouse [/B]and have no complaints. I think it's kind of the best of both worlds. You have the perks of a condo without the elevator or noisy neighbours above you. You also have a bit of a yard. I'd sooner live where I do now than in a semi detached duplex where you're kinda screwed if you have a shitty neighbour.
Assuming it's the same sh*tty neighbour, how would you be more screwed if you lived in a duplex than if you lived in a townhouse?
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 1:41 AM
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Assuming it's the same sh*tty neighbour, how would you be more screwed if you lived in a duplex than if you lived in a townhouse?
Yeah but in a townhouse complex you can complain to a board and the rainy day fund is spread out among more people. If your neighbour in a duplex let's his side go to shit you have no recourse. That wouldn't happen in a townhouse.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 2:07 AM
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If your neighbour in a duplex let's his side go to shit you have no recourse. That wouldn't happen in a townhouse.
Terrace houses are a great buy.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 3:01 AM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
I live in a townhouse and have no complaints. I think it's kind of the best of both worlds. You have the perks of a condo without the elevator or noisy neighbours above you. You also have a bit of a yard. I'd sooner live where I do now than in a semi detached duplex where you're kinda screwed if you have a shitty neighbour.
Doesn't make any sense. You're implying all townhouses are condos and all duplexes are freehold which isn't the case at all.

I don't think they built condo townhouses in Toronto anymore ( note: this doesn't include stacked townhouse) with the popularity of common element condo corps. Everybody likes to say their own their homes and not just the living space.

Stomping of the foot, loud snoring and, even smoking & music selection are probably much bigger irritants to sharing a common wall than someone letting their home fall apart. Any board would be basically powerless to do something about it.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 3:11 AM
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Montréal (metropolitan area) builds row houses at a high rate.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post

Stomping of the foot, loud snoring and, even smoking & music selection are probably much bigger irritants to sharing a common wall than someone letting their home fall apart. Any board would be basically powerless to do something about it.
Considering the paper thin walls and shite construction standards of many condos these days, I would agree.

http://torontolife.com/city/faulty-towers/

http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/features/condos/
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 8:46 PM
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Toronto Life did a good piece on the downside of condo living. Problem is "new urbanists" have talked every planner and civic politician into thinking condos are the greatest thing ever and we must all resign ourselves to living in shoeboxes in the sky.

http://torontolife.com/real-estate/c...-vs-neighbour/
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Toronto Life did a good piece on the downside of condo living. Problem is "new urbanists" have talked every planner and civic politician into thinking condos are the greatest thing ever and we must all resign ourselves to living in shoeboxes in the sky.

http://torontolife.com/real-estate/c...-vs-neighbour/
Actually, most new urbanists are not a fan of high rises. A lot prefer mid-rises or townhomes. You can get some pretty good density if you're entire city is that construction. Paris is very dense yet there are no high rises within city limits.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 10:30 PM
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That's the usual escape goat that doesn't hold water. The largest costs by far are professional management (after market service most large developers in Toronto offer) and security "monitoring". The guards/concierge are not trained to intervene. They can only report. It really is a ridiculous cost.
On site property manager, full time security, full time concierge, full time door man, full time manager to manage these people, assistants. People assume they need all these things, until they realize the yearly cost is half a million dollars, which assuming 200 units contributes over 200 dollars a month to condo fees.

Luckily for other markets, it seems only Toronto has the mind set of "keeping up with the jonses" regarding high end amenities offered in places like Manhattan. I haven't seen the same personnel cost swelling in Vancouver or Calgary, and the lower condo fees reflect that.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Stomping of the foot, loud snoring and, even smoking & music selection are probably much bigger irritants to sharing a common wall than someone letting their home fall apart. Any board would be basically powerless to do something about it.
Never had a problem with any of this in concrete buildings, and furthermore people pretend that noisy or problematic neighbours in single family detached homes are never a problem. If you have a bad neighbour in a SFH, you have much much much less recourse as compared to a condo.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2017, 10:36 PM
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Unfortunately I'm not sure how you avoid all of this. A condo's board and management can change over the years and nobody really has control over it. The same crazy people who show up to town council meetings with bizarre ideas are the sort of people who love to run condos. Note that I also don't personally care enough to waste my time going on these boards.
In my experience the philosophy of a condo board doesn't change all that much. The board gets into a groove, it attracts a certain type of personality, and while people come and go, it is hard to change the inertia of a condo board organization (similar to any corporate culture).

In general, a poorly functioning or condo governance philosophy that you don't agree with will be very apparent from reading annual condo minutes and looking at the budgets. If small vacuous topics dominate the annual meetings, and the board takes measures to micro manage amenities and other hair-brained schemes like delaying fixing a door that doesn't close properly will be all there in black and white.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Toronto Life did a good piece on the downside of condo living. Problem is "new urbanists" have talked every planner and civic politician into thinking condos are the greatest thing ever and we must all resign ourselves to living in shoeboxes in the sky.

http://torontolife.com/real-estate/c...-vs-neighbour/

Condo boards aside, that's what apartment living has always been - sharing space with lots of different kinds of people in different stages of their lives. That article is nothing more than a recollection of some tantalizing horror stories of the sort of people who should not be living in close proximity with anyone.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
Never had a problem with any of this in concrete buildings, and furthermore people pretend that noisy or problematic neighbours in single family detached homes are never a problem. If you have a bad neighbour in a SFH, you have much much much less recourse as compared to a condo.
What does this have to do with anything? The discussion was about a condo townhouse vs a freehold semi which 99.9% of the time won't be built of reinforced concrete. In either case or in any ownership structure of these housing units, you're pretty much screwed with a nightmare of a neighbour.

Toronto has a large number of masonry homes. Those double brick walls aren't anymore sound damping than a 2X4 stud wall with basic insulation dividing the units. Of course the plaster is directly applied to the brick common wall. Adding a 2X3 or 2X4 stud wall with insulation in front of the brick wall greatly improve the dampening; almost soundproof. Problem is these homes are already narrow. Losing 3 or 4 inches width is not usually recommended.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Condo boards aside, that's what apartment living has always been - sharing space with lots of different kinds of people in different stages of their lives. That article is nothing more than a recollection of some tantalizing horror stories of the sort of people who should not be living in close proximity with anyone.
I purposely moved around alot in my 20s to get different experiences. Not all apartments are alike. There's a really sense of community in smaller buildings with 100 or less units and not more than 6 per floor. The towers being built almost exclusively today are like anonymous vertical subdivisions with little interaction and little sense of community.

They are built for the masses. Like you say, for all types of people in all stages of live. The thing is, most people aren't that interested in others that are very different with their careers, religion, ethnicity, etc. and/or at different stages of life. For example, I look at college kids problems and just laugh now.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Doesn't make any sense. You're implying all townhouses are condos and all duplexes are freehold which isn't the case at all.

I don't think they built condo townhouses in Toronto anymore ( note: this doesn't include stacked townhouse) with the popularity of common element condo corps. Everybody likes to say their own their homes and not just the living space.

Stomping of the foot, loud snoring and, even smoking & music selection are probably much bigger irritants to sharing a common wall than someone letting their home fall apart. Any board would be basically powerless to do something about it.
In Calgary I'm not aware of there being some kind of regulation making duplexes not free hold. Also all townhouses here are run by condo boards.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
In Calgary I'm not aware of there being some kind of regulation making duplexes not free hold. Also all townhouses here are run by condo boards.
Ownership structure isn't dictated by regulation. These duplexes were simple marketed as condos.

Not all townhouses built in Toronto are part of large complexes made of blocks with internal private laneways . Those complexes also tend to be a combination of freehold and condo ownership. You own your house and can do whatever you want with it and are responsible for all the maintenance. The condo only looks after the common elements which would be the underground parking or private laneways, landscaping and, the exterior of the structures.

Most condos here are professionally managed. The board is boss but, the contracted management company is the board's oversight. Power is not easily defined.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 8:19 PM
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Most of these shitbox vertical rabbit cages are built to make developers, speculators and flippers rich. That human beings are expected to live in them is almost incidental.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2017, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Condo boards aside, that's what apartment living has always been - sharing space with lots of different kinds of people in different stages of their lives. That article is nothing more than a recollection of some tantalizing horror stories of the sort of people who should not be living in close proximity with anyone.
Except when you rent and hate your neighbor its relatively easy and cheap to give notice and move. When you've put a lot of you own money and maybe mortgage to the hilt, it can be much more difficult.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2017, 3:44 AM
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Caricaturizations of condos as nothing more than shoeboxes in the sky with paper walls and asshole neighbours are useless hysteria. All that a condo is is an owned unit in a multi-family building, and like any other kind of housing, quality is not inherent to building type or ownership arrangement.

I've been in plenty of condo buildings, and some are utilitarian pieces of shit with poorly contemplated plans and cheap finishes; some are gorgeous structures with thick concrete walls and great interiors; but the majority are pretty average modern buildings (while a bunch of others meanwhile are retrofitted older buildings).

There are plenty of valid criticisms to be made of recent condo development without having to resort to hyperbole, from them bidding up the cost of land to the block-sized scale of many buildings, but as far as providing decent places to live, they're fine.
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