HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2017, 6:37 AM
Loco101's Avatar
Loco101 Loco101 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Timmins, Northern Ontario
Posts: 7,623
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
As a Maritimer, my vote goes to Robert Stanfield, an excellent statesman, a capable administrator and a successful provincial premier. He had the great misfortune of competing against Trudeau the senior and Trudeaumania. He never stood a chance. The media was quite cruel to him as he was the opposite of "hip". It was a shame really............

Well he came close in 1972 (PET's second election) as the Liberals only won a minority government and by 2 seats! If Stanfield would have won by two seats you wonder if Trudeau would have stuck around much longer as Liberal leader.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2017, 7:02 AM
BretttheRiderFan's Avatar
BretttheRiderFan BretttheRiderFan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,667
I can't believe the PCs kept Stanfield around for three elections. That would absolutely never happen nowadays.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2017, 7:24 PM
lio45 lio45 is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 41,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan View Post
I can't believe the PCs kept Stanfield around for three elections. That would absolutely never happen nowadays.
Which is, IMO, really shortsighted. For example, politicians of the caliber of Jack Layton or Tom Mulcair could very well eventually prevail... but likely only after a few lost elections and a decade or more of party leadership / media appearances under their belt. If you ditch them after their first lost election to systematically replace them with inexperienced fresh blood who's got to be the next savior, you're unlikely to ever achieve anything.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2017, 9:22 PM
VIce VIce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Why don't we broaden this thread to include provincial leaders?

We've got plenty of examples in Ontario. Stephen Lewis (NDP, late 1970s) and John Tory (PC, 2007) both stand out as figures that would have been great Premiers, IMO. I think Ernie Eves could have done a good job too if he hadn't been completely ruined by Mike Harris' baggage.

I also wonder what might have happened in Ontario if Bill Davis hadn't retired in 1984. At the time of his retirement he was still young (only 55 years old) and generally popular. He was this rare figure that could appeal to massive swaths of the political spectrum, from rural social conservatives right through to moderate socialists. I still don't know how the hell he did it. If he hadn't retired he could have remained in office into the early 21st century.
I think opposition leaders that never became premier would be too obscure for anybody outside of the specific province to comment on. But premiers who we'd have liked to see enter federal politics could be more interesting.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2017, 9:25 PM
VIce VIce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
LOL!

Paul Martin jnr. was amazing and Preston Manning isn't fit to run a lemonade stand!
I understand that politics clouds vision sometimes, but even though I'm fairly liberal, I've had a few chances to speak to Preston Manning (he guest lectured in a few courses of mine), and every time I did he gave the impression of being whip-smart.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2017, 9:33 PM
thurmas's Avatar
thurmas thurmas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 7,595
I think if Joe Clark had stayed in power and not bungled his 1979 budget Canada would look very different. Trudeau Senior would have faded from memory and never gotten his Constitution.The 1980 Quebec referendum would have been a much narrower victory for the NO side but there would have been far more constructive provincial relations between a Clark government and the provinces. The National Energy Program and Brian Mulroney likely would never have happened. Our national finances would likely be in far better shape as Clark in 79 was actually committed to bringing down the deficit while PET almost destroyed our economy permanently between 1980-84 and it took the GST and massive cuts in the 90's to get this finally in check but caused sever trauma on our health care and infrastructure systems.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2017, 9:42 PM
Marshsparrow Marshsparrow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,005
Rona Ambrose!?!?!? - too much! I would say Jack Layton or Bob Rae (Liberal year version) are the two Canada missed out on!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2017, 10:45 PM
EpicPonyTime's Avatar
EpicPonyTime EpicPonyTime is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Yellowfork
Posts: 1,068
I would second the Bob Rae we saw as interm leader of the Liberals. He did a lot to right the ship before Trudeau took over.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 2:43 AM
Gresto's Avatar
Gresto Gresto is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,707
I third Bob Rae. Layton was a good man with his heart in the right place, but he was too beholden to buzzwords and catchphrases (e.g. "Kitchen table, not boardroom table", "Working families").
Frank McKenna might have been very interesting, given his reputation as a bulldog.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 3:04 AM
mistercorporate's Avatar
mistercorporate mistercorporate is offline
The Fruit of Discipline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIce View Post
I understand that politics clouds vision sometimes, but even though I'm fairly liberal, I've had a few chances to speak to Preston Manning (he guest lectured in a few courses of mine), and every time I did he gave the impression of being whip-smart.
I'm not a Liberal, or Conservative. I've voted for both parties in equal measure, depending on the candidate and platform, with consideration to Canada's needs at that moment. That being said, he is a fellow of the Fraser Institute. Therefore, a certified dumbass. He also did a PhD in Divinity. There's nothing wrong with spirituality/religion, but the combination of formal higher studies in a particular religion combined with a proclivity for associating himself with ignorant organizations such as the Fraser Institute leads me to conclude we'd end up with another intellectual lightweight running Canada off the rails economically. We need more Paul Martins.
__________________
MLS: Toronto FC
Canadian Premier League: York 9 FC
NBA: Raptors
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 3:12 AM
Loco101's Avatar
Loco101 Loco101 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Timmins, Northern Ontario
Posts: 7,623
Quote:
Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan View Post
I can't believe the PCs kept Stanfield around for three elections. That would absolutely never happen nowadays.
Well it was also the situation that the PCs were in that kept him as leader. In 1968 the PCs were bound to lose so they let that go. But then their popularity increased with Stanfield as leader campaigning and he came VERY close in 1972. Having a Liberal minority government meant that Stanfield could be PM in a year or two. But the Liberals ended up winning a majority in 1974 and that was the end of him.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 3:36 AM
BIMBAM's Avatar
BIMBAM BIMBAM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Which is, IMO, really shortsighted. For example, politicians of the caliber of Jack Layton or Tom Mulcair could very well eventually prevail... but likely only after a few lost elections and a decade or more of party leadership / media appearances under their belt. If you ditch them after their first lost election to systematically replace them with inexperienced fresh blood who's got to be the next savior, you're unlikely to ever achieve anything.
On that note, voting out Mulcair and then not finding a new leader for years was a terrible strategy. You end up having a demoralized person as your leader just going through the motions for years and don't even know if you actually have anyone better to replace him with.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 4:04 AM
BretttheRiderFan's Avatar
BretttheRiderFan BretttheRiderFan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,667
Mulcair really should have quit the moment that leadership review happened in Edmonton and allowed somebody else to be an interim. Or, at least whenever he concluded to himself that he wasn't going to run again (if that's even happened yet?)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 4:11 AM
bikegypsy's Avatar
bikegypsy bikegypsy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 982
Joe Clark. He entered the game way too young and his timing was all wrong. If he had waited 15 years or so he would have been iconic. This is one of the very few instances that the conservatives had a leader who appeared human.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 4:42 AM
BretttheRiderFan's Avatar
BretttheRiderFan BretttheRiderFan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,667
In response to the "Best Premiers your Province Never Had" my responses would include:

- Grant MacEwan: Mayor of Calgary from 1963-65, former university professor and dean, led the Liberals to a large defeat in the 1959 election to Social Credit. Served as Lieutenant Governor from 1966-74. MacEwan University in Edmonton as well as a student centre at the U of C and neighbourhoods in Calgary and Edmonton are named for him.

- Grant Notley: Alberta NDP leader from 1968-84, as well as leader of the opposition from '82 onwards. For eleven years he served as the only New Democrat in the legislature, before being joined by Ray Martin in the '82 election. He died in a plane crash in 1984 and his daughter Rachel now serves as premier.

- R.B. Bennett: before the former Prime Minister led the Conservatives federally, he was the provincial party's first leader. After failing to win a seat and losing the first election to Alexander Rutherford's Liberals in 1905, Bennett managed to gain a seat in 1909 despite again losing to Rutherford provincially. He switched to federal politics and was elected to the House of Commons in 1911, quickly rising in the Tory Party.

- Edward Michener: Served as an early Mayor of Red Deer in the 1900s before entering provincial politics. After Bennett left for federal politics, Michener became leader of the Conservatives and of the Official Opposition. He too failed to lead the party to a breakthrough, and was appointed to the Senate by Robert Borden in 1918. His son Roland would eventually serve as Speaker of the House of Commons and then Governor General of Canada.

- Elmer Ernest Roper: Roper was leader of the provincial Cooperative Commonwealth Federation for thirteen years from 1942-55, but never managed to challenge the dominance of the Social Credit government. He managed better success at the municipal level, however, and was elected mayor of Edmonton in 1959, being re-elected two years later before stepping down in 1963.

- Laurence Decore: After serving as mayor of Edmonton from 1983-88, Decore entered provincial politics, winning the Liberal leadership. In the 1989 election, he was elected in his riding and doubled the Liberals' seat total to 8, still well behind the opposition New Democrats. Positioning himself as a critic of the province's financial situation and rising deficits, the party polled well in the leadup to 1993, and managed to wipe out the NDP from the legislature as well as winning 32 seats (including every seat in Edmonton) and 40% of the popular vote, the largest of any opposition party in Alberta history. Many Liberals, expecting to win the election, were disappointed with the result and demanded Decore to resign, which he did the following year. He died of cancer in 1999, and the Liberals haven't approached the support levels enjoyed under his leadership since then.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 4:53 AM
Rollerstud98 Rollerstud98 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,723
My grandpa used to be pretty high up in the Alberta NDP party, had Grant Notley over for dinner fairly often. I do not follow my families political ideals though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 2:46 PM
PoscStudent's Avatar
PoscStudent PoscStudent is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St. John's
Posts: 3,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan View Post
I can't believe the PCs kept Stanfield around for three elections. That would absolutely never happen nowadays.
It can if expectations for the leader aren't necessarily that high, and then of course if they have support among grassroots.

Jack Layton was able to stay as leader for four elections because he was never expected to win and had been able to grow the party bit by bit each election. On the hand Mulcair was suppose to deliver them a win and went into the election leading. In 2012, many New Democrats compromised their beliefs by selecting a centrist leader because he was a Quebecker who stood the best chance of winning an election. When selecting past leaders the idea of who's going to deliver an election win wouldn't have really been on peoples minds.

At the moment many Conservatives realize that Trudeau stands a good shot of winning a second term and a two election strategy is needed. If the next leader is able to keep the support they had in the last election or better yet gain support then they stand a good chance of sticking around. This was Dion's problem in 2008. At the time he led the party to their worst electoral showing in history, despite having been competitive with the Conservative prior to the writ dropping. Had he gained support while keeping Harper in minority he may have stuck around. He may have also struggled with the grassroots because he wasn't many peoples first choice when he won the election.

As for the actual topic of the thread... I don't really know. Bob Stanfield is usually the name most associated with this question.

Maybe I'll go with John Crosbie. Just because he's John Crosbie!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 3:01 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 67,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by itom 987 View Post
If Jacques Parizeau was prime minister Canada would have split up.



There is always the chance they were saying those things to get elected, but not follow through when in power.
It would have required an amazing and unlikely amount of sleight of hand for Jacques Parizeau to get elected as PM for all of Canada, and then proceed to dismantle the country while residing at 24 Sussex.
__________________
Amber alerts welcome at any time
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 3:42 PM
BretttheRiderFan's Avatar
BretttheRiderFan BretttheRiderFan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,667
I think we're at the point in Canadian history where any leader of the Liberals or Conservatives is expected to quickly bring success to the party, and government within at least an election cycle or two. You also saw this culture completely change within the NDP once they had got into spitting distance of power, and IMO is a huge factor in why the membership turfed Mulcair.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2017, 4:08 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is offline
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,641
For Canada, Jack Layton is the only one I'm disappointed was never Prime Minister. He had some great ideas and we've certainly missed out on a few things for the fact he wasn't. For Newfoundland, Ches Crosbie. He would've certainly been our next Prime Minister if the National Question had been settled for the other side in the 1940s. His economic union with the United States was very lucratively timed and could've improved our fortunes. Or not. I'm not sure what an anglophone Puerto Rico would be today - perhaps we'd be a full state. But Trudeau versus Trump? O Canada.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."

Last edited by SignalHillHiker; Feb 6, 2017 at 11:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:59 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.