Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Reignman

People from outside of Winnipeg driving on these types of roads are not used to seeing traffic lights at all.

No kidding. My point is there's no warning of the possibility you might have to come to a complete stop, not even a cautionary signal ahead sign, when streets like Kenaston even have them in places where it's way more obvious there's a light. IT's not like I'm up in arms going to Gordon Sinclair over this, most of you need to relax, I'm just saying there should be a warning there.

[NK59]

CPT extension would likely solve a lot of problems at Mcphillips and Leila. Unfortunately CPT bottlenecks at main when travelling west from Henderson. The light timing to turn left on Main is awfully short.

By: Staff Metro Winnipeg, Published on Wed Aug 12 2015

Winnipeg’s ten worst collision-prone intersections have seen more than 9,000 crashes over the past five years. And the city’s worst street is Bishop Grandin/Kenaston – although the worst intersection can be found on McPhillips Street and Leila Avenue. Manitoba Public Insurance says the 10 worst intersections in the city have seen 9,058 collisions between 2010 through 2014, with five of those 10 intersections belonging to Bishop Grandin and Kenaston boulevards.

In north Winnipeg, 1,319 collisions have happened on Leila Avenue at McPhillips Street, averaging out to one every day and a half.

The List:
· Leila Avenue and McPhilips Street - 1,319
· Kenaston Boulevard and McGillvray Boulevard - 1,265
· Grant Avenue and Kenaston Boulevard - 961
· Lagimodiere Boulevard and Regent Avenue W - 956
· Bishop Grandin Boulevard and St. Mary’s Road - 876
· Bishop Grandin Boulevard and St. Anne’s Road - 806
· Archibald Street and Marion Street - 763
· Bishop Grandin Boulevard and Waverley Street - 719
· Portage Avenue and St James Street - 701
· Portage Avenue and Moray Street - 692

[esquire]

^ Interesting... Leila/McPhillips has long been a fixture on those lists. Funny thing is it doesn't seem particularly treacherous compared to some of the other ones which are typically really wide (Regent/Lag) or fast-moving (Kenaston/McGillivray).

[cllew]

Not sure if its related to Chief Peguis but there is a tender out right now that includes drawings for intersection improvements at the Lag and Grassie Blvd intersection. Looks like most of the work is going to be turning improvements on the east west lanes from Grassie to Lag.

[Danny D Oh]

I guess volume is a factor, but I don't get how an intersection that is so controlled like Regent/Lag has that many "accidents." To me, driving in that area quite a bit, intersections like Regent/Nairn & Panet or Regent/Rougeau-Reenders or Regent/Peguis are much more treacherous with all the blind left turns and aggressive retail craziness going on.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

I guess volume is a factor, but I don't get how an intersection that is so controlled like Regent/Lag has that many "accidents." To me, driving in that area quite a bit, intersections like Regent/Nairn & Panet or Regent/Rougeau-Reenders or Regent/Peguis are much more treacherous with all the blind left turns and aggressive retail craziness going on.

Could be a symptom of the idea that people drive slower and more carefully in situations that appear more dangerous.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by NK59

CPT extension would likely solve a lot of problems at Mcphillips and Leila. Unfortunately CPT bottlenecks at main when travelling west from Henderson. The light timing to turn left on Main is awfully short.

If by "solve" you mean "move" the problem then I would agree -- much like Bishop did in the south end, all the problems moved from the side streets, where speed is low and accidents aren't typically as bad, to the expressway, where speeds are higher and accidents cause more injuries.

Bishop and Kenaston have 5 of the top 10 intersections and we want to build more street like it. Whereas the north end of the City has just 1 intersection in the list and we want to build streets with the same cross section as Bishop and Kenaston...

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by cllew

Not sure if its related to Chief Peguis but there is a tender out right now that includes drawings for intersection improvements at the Lag and Grassie Blvd intersection. Looks like most of the work is going to be turning improvements on the east west lanes from Grassie to Lag.

That intersection has sucked for years, going east on Grassie towards Lag. and you have two lanes, there is a turn signal for cars turning north onto Lag. but there is usually one car ahead of you going east that blocks that lane so you miss the turn signal. Should have been a third lane on Grassie for cars turning south onto Lag. with the middle lane for cars headed east across Lag. and the left hand lane reserved for cars turning north onto Lag.

[vjose32]

I don't think the problem is the intersections but rather the drivers. After living in Garden City for over 25 years I haven't seen one accident there that I can recall. However on more than one occasion I've seen drivers the median lane to turn left onto Leila!

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by vjose32

I don't think the problem is the intersections but rather the drivers. After living in Garden City for over 25 years I haven't seen one accident there that I can recall. However on more than one occasion I've seen drivers the median lane to turn left onto Leila!

While it might be a guess, I think that the reason you don't ever see any accidents at the intersection, even though it has the most in the whole city, is because they get cleaned up fast and/or are non-issues because the speed limit around there is only 60 on both streets.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

That intersection has sucked for years, going east on Grassie towards Lag. and you have two lanes, there is a turn signal for cars turning north onto Lag. but there is usually one car ahead of you going east that blocks that lane so you miss the turn signal. Should have been a third lane on Grassie for cars turning south onto Lag. with the middle lane for cars headed east across Lag. and the left hand lane reserved for cars turning north onto Lag.

This is almost what they are doing... They are adding a third lane to the eastbound Grassie as a northbound turn lane to Lagimodiere... I think the detailed design is up on the bid op.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by NK59

Winnipeg’s ten worst collision-prone intersections have seen more than 9,000 crashes over the past five years. And the city’s worst street is Bishop Grandin/Kenaston

Well gosh golly there's a surprise...high numbers of accidents on a high speed street littered with traffic lights

[cllew]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

This is almost what they are doing... They are adding a third lane to the eastbound Grassie as a northbound turn lane to Lagimodiere... I think the detailed design is up on the bid op.

Correct, the designs are on there ( bid opp 699-2015 ), they are also doing some intersection improvement work at Lagimodiere Boulevard at Bishop Grandin under the same bid request.

[CoryB]

It is interesting that 7 of the 10 intersections on the list of top collision locations are already on the books for consideration as grade separations, most commonly as part of the inner ring road.

Originally Posted by NK59

The List:
· Leila Avenue and McPhilips Street - 1,319 interchange at CPT and McPhillips
· Kenaston Boulevard and McGillvray Boulevard - 1,265 no grade separation planned
· Grant Avenue and Kenaston Boulevard - 961 no grade separation planned
· Lagimodiere Boulevard and Regent Avenue W - 956 grade separation in planning stages
· Bishop Grandin Boulevard and St. Mary’s Road - 876 part on inner ring and likely grade separation
· Bishop Grandin Boulevard and St. Anne’s Road - 806 part on inner ring and likely grade separation
· Archibald Street and Marion Street - 763 grade separation in development for near term construction
· Bishop Grandin Boulevard and Waverley Street - 719 part on inner ring and likely grade separation
· Portage Avenue and St James Street - 701 no grade separation planned, also north to east merge via yield
· Portage Avenue and Moray Street - 692 potential grade separation as part of inner ring road

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

I guess volume is a factor, but I don't get how an intersection that is so controlled like Regent/Lag has that many "accidents."

I notice a pattern on that list -- most of the intersections have two side-by-side left turn lanes. I would guess that a lot of collisions occur by not maintaining proper positioning relative to other lanes while in a left turn. Ever seen someone on the inside/left lane on one of those turns end up in the middle/right lane at the end of the turn? It is one of the reasons I thought Kenaston and Sterling Lyon with its triple left turn would have a high collision rate with the middle lane being prone to incursions from both sides.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It is interesting that 7 of the 10 intersections on the list of top collision locations are already on the books for consideration as grade separations, most commonly as part of the inner ring road.

I notice a pattern on that list -- most of the intersections have two side-by-side left turn lanes. I would guess that a lot of collisions occur by not maintaining proper positioning relative to other lanes while in a left turn. Ever seen someone on the inside/left lane on one of those turns end up in the middle/right lane at the end of the turn? It is one of the reasons I thought Kenaston and Sterling Lyon with its triple left turn would have a high collision rate with the middle lane being prone to incursions from both sides.

If the City/Metro would have planned better they could have made some room for grade separations on Bishop @ St. Mary's Rd and Bishop @ St. Anne's Rd.

But they didn't. Now, if they made it all separated, they'd have to do some $$ expropriation$.

I was saying a few weeks ago that Fermor near Southdale Centre should be grade-separated too.

I HATE Winnipeg because of the stupidity of the planners we have nowadays.

[cllew]

Actually some of that land around St. Vital Center is owned by the city but leased out for parking to the shopping mall.

that's the reason you see city of Winnipeg parking lot tow warning signs on the very north part of the St. Vital parking lots and not signs from St. Vital centers property management company.

[CoryB]

The question is do St Mary's, Dakota and St Annes need full interchanges or change those roads has flow interrupted for diamonds with Bishop being free flowing?

What if say Bishop was raised over both Dakota and St Mary's with an at grade level access road on either side. A merge lane coming from St Mary's going east and Dakota going west could then be raised over the next street before it merged with Bishop. The overall design would be similar to how the CentrePort Canada Way overpass is designed on the Perimeter. Having the left turns queue and cross traffic stop for them would allow a more compact design and should still highly improve the flow in the area. If St Mary's traffic needs it the left turns there could be eliminated in peak traffic periods turning it into a free flow point, however with the number of traffic lights on St Mary's it seems like a moot point.

[Biff]

Last year I spoke with the engineer dealing with this issue and the problem with Bishop/St Mary's/Dakota is that the distance between St Mary's and Dakota is too short for proper decel and accel ramps (approx 1,600 ft). They need to come up with something creative and he said it will likely be one large interchange where for example you get off Bishop EB at St Mary's and access EB Bishop again from Dakota. Vise-Versa on the WB lanes.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by Biff

Last year I spoke with the engineer dealing with this issue and the problem with Bishop/St Mary's/Dakota is that the distance between St Mary's and Dakota is too short for proper decel and accel ramps (approx 1,600 ft). They need to come up with something creative and he said it will likely be one large interchange where for example you get off Bishop EB at St Mary's and access EB Bishop again from Dakota. Vise-Versa on the WB lanes.

I always assumed they would build an interchange at St Marys and have a straight underpass on Dakota with no ramps onto Bishop; because Dakota does not go to the perimeter. Ya know, in like a hundred years.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by plrh

I always assumed they would build an interchange at St Marys and have a straight underpass on Dakota with no ramps onto Bishop; because Dakota does not go to the perimeter. Ya know, in like a hundred years.

That makes sense... I'm guessing they might even be able to get away with WB to NB and NB to EB ramps at Dakota if they decided to take that approach.