The Great Canadian Cross-Border Shopping Thread

[Acajack]

So, people, if you have the opportunity to cross-border shop (some Canadians do not), how would you describe and assess the possibilities within striking range of where you live?

Here is my assessment for Ottawa-Gatineau:

Just over the border, roughly an hour away:
Massena NY (opposite Cornwall) and Ogdensburg NY (opposite Prescott)
Small towns (10,000 range) with little shopping appeal except for people from Cornwall and Prescott who likely cross over for gas and groceries, and maybe some Walmart-type items.

Watertown, NY – about two hours away
Small city of 40,000 or 50,000 maybe. You go here for Sears, Walmart, Zellers type shopping for the most part. I don’t find it’s really worth it from Ottawa-Gatineau (especially since Syracuse is just an hour further down the road) but for people from the Kingston area it might be worth the short trip to stock up on some basic essentials.

Syracuse NY – just over three hours away.
Though the metro is half the size of Ottawa-Gatineau, because it draws from a large area (and that everything in the U.S. often seems larger than life I suppose), Syracuse offers as much if not more than Ottawa-Gatineau does in terms of shopping options. The main mall, Carousel Center, is a big as any mall in Ottawa and will soon be expanded (and rebranded) as DestiNY USA which will dwarf anything we have in our area. Plus about 45 mins. west of Syracuse is a pretty good (100+ stores) outlet mall in the town of Waterloo featuring tons of designer labels.

Overall rating for cross-border shopping in Syracuse from Ottawa-Gatineau: A

[Antigonish]

Freeport, Maine is probably the first destination for Maritimers heading through St. Stephens (or Woodstock).

[SignalHillHiker]

(All joking aside, I've twice now driven from St. John's to the eastern United States, once just to NYC, and once all the way to Florida. It's too far for us to go for a simple shopping trip, but it's certainly worthwhile to shop while you're there.)

[Xelebes]

Eh, too far for me with not too good shopping choices around once I cross the border. You end up having to Boise, Denver or Salt Lake City and those are well over a thousand clicks away.

[flar]

I haven't cross border shopped in NY since I moved to Ottawa, too far away, but I do shop in the states when I go home (Port Lambton, Ontario, right on the border).


We cross border shopped all the time when I was growing up. 20-25 years ago it was about a half hour drive to a suburban Detroit mall that totally blew away the selection available anywhere in Canada. Also, cheap booze, cheap gas and cheap groceries. However, I don't recommend buying meat in the US.

[MonctonRad]

Bangor ME is about 4 hours from Moncton which makes it a weekend shopping destination. Bangor is only half the size of Moncton, but manages to have stores like Macy's, J.C. Penny's, Abercrombie & Fitch, Hollister and Victoria's Secret.

I much prefer the shopping experience in Portland/Freeport which is about 5 hours 45 minutes from Moncton. This is far enough that it is really a long weekend shopping destination. The big attraction here is the outlets and L.L. Bean.

Having said all this, I have made a conscious decision to "shop in Canada first", and will only buy south of the border if I am certain that I can't get what I want locally. My shopping trips to Maine are generally for window shopping purposes.

[MolsonExport]

Many possibilities for London residents. Niagara Falls, NY has outlet malls, as does nearby Buffalo (about 2-3 hours from London). Detroit is 90 minutes + border crossing time. Port Huron (Michigan) is 50 minutes + border crossing (just across from Sarnia), and has a decent sized mall. Better still is Frankenmuth/Birch Run about 1 hour north of the hellhole known as Flint (Michigan). Frankenmuth is actually very nice (Faux Bavarian town). Worth the 4 hour drive. I have heard that some drive to Pennsylvania (Erie?) for shopping.

I purposely go to the states for shopping perhaps once per year, mainly for childrens clothes (e.g., Polo outlet).

[MTLskyline]

Plattsburgh, NY is about an hour. It has about 20,000 people. There is not a huge amount there, to be honest, but it does attract Quebecers in droves.

Burlington, VT is about an hour and a half. It has around 40,000 in the city proper, 100,000 in the urban area and 200,000 in the metropolitan area. It is reasonably good. Downtown Burlington is quite attractive and there are a fair amount of stores there on the main street (Church Street). Nice mix of independent stores and chains that aren't in Canada.

Albany, NY is about 3.5 hours, and has around 1 million people in its metro area, but I've never really shopped there although it is a fairly interesting city.

Conway, NH is about 4 hours and has around 10,000 people. It has a lot of outlet shops. I know some people from PEI who go there almost every year (along with Boston of course)

Boston is around 5 hours and is a very good long-weekend destination.

New York City is around 6.5 hours and is the best long-weekend destination...

[freeweed]

Calgary SUCKS when it comes to road-tripping for this. Well, to be fair the entire west does except Vancouver. This is one area where the East definitely has it WAY better. I'm so envious of you people who can go cross-border for a weekend whenever you want.

5 hours away is a Wal-Mart in Great Falls, MT. Extend that another 2-3 hours and you can go to the metropolis of Spokane, WA. You basically have to drive a solid 12+ hours to get anywhere useful - Salt Lake, Seattle, Portland. Add another 2.5 hours for Edmontonians, they definitely have it the worst in the country.

So other than insane people like me (I do a drive to the coast and/or Vegas about twice each year), cross-border shopping for Albertans basically means flying. So of course you can go anywhere.

With the recent influx of US retailers to Canada (esp. Calgary), I find less and less of a need to go south. Stuff is available here in ways it never used to be. However - clothing is still often 30-50% (and more!) cheaper down south. I think I've spent maybe $100 on clothing in the past 5 years in Canada, and I'm not exactly light on the clothes budget.

I'd love to support our local economy more, but until I see retailers step up to the new world of parity (and they slowly are, to their credit), I'll still keep doing this. It's also much more fun to shop in the outdoor-style outlet malls when it's +25 in December.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

Plattsburgh, NY is about an hour. It has about 20,000 people. There is not a huge amount there, to be honest, but it does attract Quebecers in droves.

Burlington, VT is about an hour and a half. It has around 40,000 in the city proper, 100,000 in the urban area and 200,000 in the metropolitan area. It is reasonably good. Downtown Burlington is quite attractive and there are a fair amount of stores there on the main street (Church Street). Nice mix of independent stores and chains that aren't in Canada.

Albany, NY is about 3.5 hours, and has around 1 million people in its metro area, but I've never really shopped there although it is a fairly interesting city.

Conway, NH is about 4 hours and has around 10,000 people. It has a lot of outlet shops. I know some people from PEI who go there almost every year (along with Boston of course)

Boston is around 5 hours and is a very good long-weekend destination.

New York City is around 6.5 hours and is the best long-weekend destination...

I've never heard of people from Montreal or Quebec in general shopping in Albany, but you're right - it is a good-sized city not too far away.

Although I guess if you already in that area it is probably simply worth it to just go to Woodbury Commons, a massive outlet centre that is about an hour north of NYC.

As for Plattsburgh (in particular) and Burlington also, many people do go there but I find it's a bit of a drop in scale for people who live in a metro of million people. In Plattsburgh especially it's more to stock on Walmart-type essentials (their Walmart is HUGE there) than anything to do with selection.

I do hear of people going to North Conway, NH. Often combined with an outdoorsy trip (hiking, skiing).

[Airboy]

We do quite a bit of online shopping; however on a recent trip to Seattle we did go a bit over board.

The selection is slightly better but the service is outstanding. I was at Nordstums but did not buy very much as I saw prices were similar to Edmonton and being from Alberta I did not have to pay the State tax.

Macy's was the big shopping load; prices came in at almost 50% less. Got to love sales. J crew was another that had a different price for some items. Checked out Jcrew in YEG when we got home. Pants were the same but the cashmere sweaters were almost double the price.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Calgary SUCKS when it comes to road-tripping for this. Well, to be fair the entire west does except Vancouver. This is one area where the East definitely has it WAY better. I'm so envious of you people who can go cross-border for a weekend whenever you want.

5 hours away is a Wal-Mart in Great Falls, MT. Extend that another 2-3 hours and you can go to the metropolis of Spokane, WA. You basically have to drive a solid 12+ hours to get anywhere useful - Salt Lake, Seattle, Portland. Add another 2.5 hours for Edmontonians, they definitely have it the worst in the country.

Have you ever been to Spokane to shop? (I've never been there - so I have no idea.)

Because I always find that mid-sized and even smaller U.S. cities are usually way above comparably-sized Canadian cities when it comes to shopping. Not sure if it is because they have more population density in their surrounding areas, or if the U.S. retail sector is just way more developed, or both.

For example, Watertown, New York appears like it has more stuff than Sudbury, Ontario, which has three times its population. And it completely blows away comparably-sized cities in Canada like Timmins, North Bay or Rouyn-Noranda.

As I said earlier, Syracuse has half the population of Ottawa-Gatineau and it is at least equivalent, if not better.

[SignalHillHiker]

Just checked Google Maps to see exactly how inconvenient it would be to shop across the border.

From St. John's, you have to drive to catch the ferry to Nova Scotia. You can choose:

1. Argentia: 134 km (1 hour, 44 minutes). Then board and take a long, overnight ferry to North Sydney, N.S.

2. Port-aux-Basques: 903 km (10 hours, 16 minutes). Then board and take the main, short, hours-long ferry to North Sydney, N.S.

From there, it's 955 km (10 hours, 9 minutes) to Bangor, Maine, which is the nearest large American city.

So, in total, the shortest possible time between St. John's and Bangor is 27 hours.

Or, you know, you can fly direct to London, U.K., for $99 when the flights go on sale.

[DrNest]

The thing that frustrates me is the higher prices and lower selection available in Canada. I've asked numerous companies how they justify their higher prices, when the same item an hour's drive away across the border is so much cheaper.
They usually hide behind the "it's not down to us, it's the distribution, taxes etc" line.
So frustrating!!

[flar]

It's true, the US has way better selection, better prices on many items, and a massive retail presence in even the smallest towns.

The main reason is the better supply chain in the US. They have way more people, way more stores, way easier shipping and beat us on economy of scale. They also have lower labour costs. Minimum wage is often half of what it is in Canada. That's why so many poor Americans have two or three jobs and have to do meth to stay awake for days on end to support their families.

[esquire]

For better or for worse, cross border shopping is a popular pastime for Winnipeggers and people in southern Manitoba. The US isn't quite as convenient for us as it is for people in Vancouver or Toronto, but it's still close enough to make heading down worthwhile for many people.

There are three main destinations:

Grand Forks, ND (2.5 hours) - A small city of just under 100,000 people in the metro area, Grand Forks has a wide selection of low-to-mid range retailers. You obviously won't find a Bergdorf Goodman here but there is a full range of popular big box stores like Target, Wal-Mart, Lowes, Kohl's and the like. Especially popular are Target and Menard's (a home improvement store). On long weekends, there are nearly as many Manitoba plates in the parking lots of those stores as there are North Dakota plates. This is a very popular destination for day trips.

Fargo, ND (3.5 hours) - It's significantly bigger than Grand Forks but from a shopping and attractions standpoint there isn't much incentive to drive the extra hour. Fargo has a lineup of stores similar to Grand Forks although the mall in Fargo is quite a bit bigger. This is more of a weekend destination for Winnipeggers.

Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN (7.5 hours) - It's a long haul but well worth it as a shopping destination. MSP has the full range of retailers you'd expect to see in a big American city, along with enough attractions, arts, sports and entertainment to keep you busy for days on end. It has an outlet mall that is very popular with Winnipeggers, and the Mall of America is considered an attraction in and of itself. The downtown department stores are personally my favourite sources of good deals, although the Saks store has downgraded to a Last Call and the Neiman Marcus is closing next year. However, Macy's is still going strong. In my experience, you need at least a long weekend to do this trip without feeling rushed.

[hamster]

Originally Posted by flar

It's true, the US has way better selection, better prices on many items, and a massive retail presence in even the smallest towns.

The main reason is the better supply chain in the US. They have way more people, way more stores, way easier shipping and beat us on economy of scale. They also have lower labour costs. Minimum wage is often half of what it is in Canada. That's why so many poor Americans have two or three jobs and have to do meth to stay awake for days on end to support their families.

minimum wage is about $3 higher per hour on average in Canada. That makes marginal difference in costs. Government vs. employer based healthcare, right-to-work vs pro-union, and higher import and business taxes in Canada makes a bigger difference. If they just made cross-border trade easier, then the American supply chain could be expanded to Canada.They say that most Canadians live within 2 hours of the US border anyway. It's not like you are buying Canadian or American. Everything says made in China these days.

Also, what is the current supply chain in Canada? It seems that most imported goods could arrive on ship to Montreal, Quebec City, Toronto, Vancouver, Halifax, and Saint John’s. Shipping is the cheapest way to move goods. So only the interior cities should have higher supply chain costs (Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton, possibly Ottawa), but even those cities could use rail, which is efficient. I think that the supply cost argument has little merit.

Canadians are just being charged more because they are willing to pay the higher cost and are used to paying a higher cost when the loonie was worth less. Just keep taking your money to the US and hopefully the retailers get the message. The good news is that Target and Nordstroms are coming to Canada soon, and this year the 24 hour duty-free exemption was bumped up from $50 to $200 and the 48 hour duty-free exemption is now $800.

Be smart when you buy clothes. Just go with an empty suitcase and remove the tags before you head back. Some states like Minnesota have no taxes on clothes.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Calgary SUCKS when it comes to road-tripping for this. Well, to be fair the entire west does except Vancouver. This is one area where the East definitely has it WAY better. I'm so envious of you people who can go cross-border for a weekend whenever you want.

5 hours away is a Wal-Mart in Great Falls, MT. Extend that another 2-3 hours and you can go to the metropolis of Spokane, WA. You basically have to drive a solid 12+ hours to get anywhere useful - Salt Lake, Seattle, Portland. Add another 2.5 hours for Edmontonians, they definitely have it the worst in the country.

So other than insane people like me (I do a drive to the coast and/or Vegas about twice each year), cross-border shopping for Albertans basically means flying. So of course you can go anywhere.

Hahaha, this. So much this! Who the hell (except for you, apparently) is going to spend 6 hours driving to Kalispell (or Great Falls) to get a discount on a shirt, and then spend 6 hours driving back? Only makes sense if you are already there on vacation (and I have spent many summers of my youth down in Montana...), or if you are buying something like a new car.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Have you ever been to Spokane to shop? (I've never been there - so I have no idea.)

Yup. We go practically every year. I adore the Idaho panhandle area for vacationing and Spokane is a very short drive once you're down that far. Spokane is a decent place to go shopping - but it's no Seattle. It's a very, how to say this, blue collar city. Their Macy's (they have 3 that I'm aware of) tend to be... well for most things similar to a big city, but they're smaller. And they cater more to the local clientele (let me show you the Macy's in Helena, MT sometime, you'd understand). You just don't get the "big city" stuff as much.

But the biggest thing Spokane lacks is an outlet mall. There used to be one in Couer d'Alene next door, but it closed down years ago. And it was kinda crappy anyway.

Smaller centres (50,000-200,000 population) near bigger cities - I totally agree with you. They tend to have just as much shopping. But paradoxically, when you have a smaller city in the middle of nowhere - you wish you were in the bigger city. At least out west anyway. Logic would dictate that their remoteness means MORE selection, but such is not usually the case.

Spokane is much better for shopping than a comparable Canadian city, no question. But it doesn't hold a candle to Seattle - at least not as far as SHE is concerned, which is really what matters.

PS: Boris, I've never specifically gone to Great Falls, although we've joked about it. As far as I'm concerned, it's basically a gas/food stop on the way to Butte/Helena/Twin Falls depending on the season and weather conditions.

PPS: how did I make a "thumbs down" symbol, and how do I get rid of it? Stupid new keyboard.

[MonctonRad]

Driving time to Bangor from select Atlantic Canadian cities.

Saint John - 2.5 hours
Fredericton - 3 hours
Moncton - 4 hours
Charlottetown - 6 hours
Halifax - 7 hours
Sydney - 9.5 hours
St. John's - 27 hours! (gives a whole new sense to the term "isolation")