Draft On Hst Referendum Question Revealed

[Fairbanks]

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...stion-released

[Yume-sama]

It will undoubtedly pass, and people will then wonder why things still cost exactly the same.

What, with the "higher" tax gone and all

I wonder if the government would have the guts to then change the PST rules to apply on *everything*.

Something tells me there would be less uproar, as people seem to be ignorant and think it is GST & PST & HST now.

[SpongeG]

the way i thought it was was it will we will just have it the old way but with PST & GST but the PST will apply to loads more things than it did pre-HST

[touraccuracy]

and we'll have to give 1.6 billion dollars back.

another victory for democracy -_-

[touraccuracy]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

It will undoubtedly pass, and people will then wonder why things still cost exactly the same.

What, with the "higher" tax gone and all

I work a retail job and I'm often at a cash register, although I only help maybe 25 people/day. Every single item in the store that I work at had PST & GST on it, and every single item now has HST on it. Between the announcement of the tax shift and the the implementation, I got a couple customers a day complaining along the lines "ugh and it's all going to cost even more after the HST kicks in." For a couple weeks after the HST kicked in, I had slightly more customers each day complaining along the lines of "everythings so much more expensive now" or simply "*grumble* stupid HST" when I tell them their total. These died off after a couple weeks and now I get maybe one complaint every couple weeks, but the fact that there are complaints at all still amazes me, and the pure level of ignorance is breathtaking. My last shift, I had a guy complain about HST making his purchase cost more, and I politely explained that it didn't change price. "But how's that possible, it's a 12% tax on everything?!" Me: "It's a 12% tax that replaced the 7% PST and the 5% GST." Him: "That's not what I heard! I don't think you're right about that!"

Bill Vander Zalm, my contempt for you is unmeasurable. You are no better than FOX news, you purposely manipulate and tell half truths.

Hurray, the people of this province will get exactly what they deserve. Make Carole James the premier next, surewhynot.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

I wonder if the government would have the guts to then change the PST rules to apply on *everything*.

I wonder the same thing. Simply put, is it more beneficial for us to scrap the HST for both a PST and GST on everything? Perhaps maybe we're all assuming that the items that weren't taxed under the old system of things will go back and become untaxed. Its really not all that clearly defined as to what will happen if the HST is repealed.

[BCPhil]

I'll give the question some credit, it sure does make the effort of making you feel retarded if you thought the HST wasn't just the GST + PST. When you think about the question, as it is worded, which is worded very accurately and precisely, it kind of makes you think "Wait, what's the point?"

It might also make some people, after reading it, go: "wait that's not what I want, 2 taxes, is it? Why am I here again?"

[whatnext]

And now Colin Hansen is trotting out the bogeyman figure of HST cancellation costing $5 Billion Dollars (say it in your best Dr. Evil voice). If this is their strategy to win the hearts and minds of British Columbians, its going to backfire on them big time. People will just be even more pissed of the BC Libs backed them into a corner.

It will be interesting to see if the federal NDP are successful in hanging the HST around Stephen Harper's neck in the next federal election. If so, I can see Jack Layton gaining a lot of seats in BC at the expense of the Tories..

[WarrenC12]

Everybody wants less tax, more money for healthcare and education, a strong economy, higher minimum wage, and a balanced budget.

The general public will vote down this efficient, effective, and economically sound consumption tax, because they are idiots. Enough said.

I'll be voting to keep the HST, but I have a hard time believing 50% of the people will join me.

I have yet to hear a single valid argument against it, given the caveats of a balanced budget and maintaining relatively similar levels of government service.

The effects of ripping out the HST on BC's economy will be far more than $5b when all is said and done.

[Stingray2004]

Whatnext........

That $5 billion figure was derived from documents obtained through an FOI request by the Globe and Mail from internal Ministry of Finance documents. And that was if the HST was terminated WITHOUT the PST re-instated. The 7% PST brought in about $5 billion/year into provincial coffers.

Of course, if the HST was extinguished the PST will be bought back, so that $5 billion figure is a moot point. Even Colin Hanson confirmed that today.

As for Jack Layton. Sheesh. Layton OPPOSED the reduction in the GST rate from 7% to 5% back in 2007, which would have resulted in a 14% HST rate in BC, NOT 12%. And of course, Jack Layton has recently been in Nova Scotia praising the NDP government for their HST rate increase from 13% to 15% as being "fiscally prudent"

BTW, the NDP federally is polling lower right now in BC than they obtained during the 2008 election.

And if ya think Jack Layton's NDP is gonna win more seats in BC because of the HST (and his history on that matter concerning the 7% GST and the 15% Nova Scotia HST) I have a book for you entitled "Politics 101 for Dummies".

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

...
BTW, the NDP federally is polling lower right now in BC than they obtained during the 2008 election.

And if ya think Jack Layton's NDP is gonna win more seats in BC because of the HST (and his history on that matter concerning the 7% GST and the 15% Nova Scotia HST) I have a book for you entitled "Politics 101 for Dummies".

Total wishful thinking on your part. Look for northern ridings that vote populist rather than idealogue to swing from the Tories to NDP, if Layton can successfully tar Harper with the Hated Sales Tax (as he did in the New West byelection).

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Total wishful thinking on your part. Look for northern ridings that vote populist rather than idealogue to swing from the Tories to NDP, if Layton can successfully tar Harper with the Hated Sales Tax (as he did in the New West byelection).

Northern interior ridings are small "c" social conservative in their demographics - Reform Party types and they view Layton as a left-wing outside interloper from Toronto. The Conservative margins in the northern interior are between 30% - 45%. And that's huge - Alberta style margins. Ain't gonna happen.

Layton a populist? He only has an 11% approval rating in BC, the lowest in Canada, from a Nanos poll of two days ago:

http://www.nanosresearch.com/library...-W10-T445E.pdf

As for the New Westminster-Coquitlam riding, it has always been a bedrock NDP seat esp. the New West portion. And Fin Donnelly was a star candidate. How could the NDP not win that seat in the by-election? That's akin to saying the NDP could not win Vancouver East in a by-election. Van East is an obvious, foregone, slam-dunk conclusion for the NDP (aside from a 1993 meltdown).

Frankly, if I were you, I would be more concerned about Vancouver-Kingsway as that will move back from Davies and the NDP to Yuen and the Liberals in the next go around based upon polling trends. Really.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

...Frankly, if I were you, I would be more concerned about Vancouver-Kingsway as that will move back from Davies and the NDP to Yuen and the Liberals in the next go around based upon polling trends. Really.

Won't happen. David Everscum soiled the Liberal brand in that area for a generation, and Yuan doesn't have the profile to overturn that, Chinese influx notwithstanding. The CCF-NDP held V-K for the majority of the last 60 years.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Won't happen. David Everscum soiled the Liberal brand in that area for a generation, and Yuan doesn't have the profile to overturn that, Chinese influx notwithstanding. The CCF-NDP held V-K for the majority of the last 60 years.

whatnext... the demographics for V-K have changed considerably over the past 20 years. Using your analogy, the federal riding of Nanaimo-Alberni would also be NDP as it (or its previous incarnation) has been for ~60 years.

But the demographics of Nanaimo-Alberni have changed considerably with retirees from BC, Ontario, and esp. Alberta infesting that riding whose voting profile is Conservative. That's along the North Nanaimo, Ladysmith, Nanoose Bay, Parksville, Qualicum Beach corridor. That seat, which would have been slam dunk NDP pre-1993, is now strongly Conservative and trending that way election after election.

The same trend is occurring in V-K in favour of the Liberals. And yes, Emerson was the wrong candidate for that riding. Nevertheless, the NDP vote is also trending downward in V-K. From 37% in 2004, skip 2006, to 35% in 2008 for the NDP - around 1/3 of the vote.

In 2008, nobody could really understand Liberal leader Staphane Dion and were also turned off by their "Green Shift" representing further carbon taxes when BC'ers were opposing the BC carbon tax. Bad populist politics.

The overall BC Liberal vote went to 19%, the lowest Liberal vote in a federal election in BC since 1984. The Conservatives were the beneficiary of that Liberal vote and their blue tide swept into the City of Vancouver, taking a good chunk of the previous Liberal vote in V-K, while knocking off Liberals in Richmond to the North Shore and almost Dosanjh in V-S.

The Liberal vote in BC has now rebounded while the NDP vote is stagnant. Do you really believe that Don Davies will keep his seat with the NDP's glass ceiling of ~35% in V-K (trending downward) in the next election? I'd wager $100 with ya that he won't.

V-K is no longer the working class 'burb of even 20 years ago but, with new homes in the $1 million range, continues to trend Liberal, Emerson and the 2008 election notwithstanding.

[twoNeurons]

You can really blame the current party for the way they handled this matter. It's a protest vote, clear and simple.

People see HST increases the price they pay for consuming things at restaurants and ALL services.

Think about that for a moment. Every utility bill, car service, haircut etc. went up. People see HST on their clothing receipts and it reminds them of the 12% tax they paid on their Latté at Starbucks that morning.

Sure, some of them grumble... HST, HST... but not all who grumble in retail stores actually think their retail purchases cost more. A lot of the stuff thrown about how people don't understand the HST is anecdotal. The fact is... it's a protest vote.

[Fairbanks]

Here's the question I would like asked in the referendum:
Would you support the HST if the PST portion of the HST was exempted from the items that were exempt from the PST prior to the new tax?

[Fairbanks]

I think about the single moms out there that work as servers in restaurants now having to deal with a drop in their tips probably by 12% and a new tax on clothing and school supplies of 12% plus some food itiems.
It boggles my mind that these idiots didn't think about this one issue among hundreds of others. Let's face it...the budget for the Olympics (which I supported fully) was 1.6 billion dollars...the same amount we received from the Feds for introducing the HST.

Coincidence? I think not!

[Spork]

Originally Posted by Fairbanks

I think about the single moms out there that work as servers in restaurants now having to deal with a drop in their tips probably by 12% and a new tax on clothing and school supplies of 12% plus some food itiems.

Poor single moms that couldn't use contraception, plan a career, or cut back on discretionary spending. Boo hoo.

[Yume-sama]

I have a hard time believing people are tipping less. However, I don't doubt SLIGHTLY less people eat out to begin with.

In the end, human laziness will be triumphant

[Fairbanks]

Originally Posted by Spork

Poor single moms that couldn't use contraception, plan a career, or cut back on discretionary spending. Boo hoo.

You kiss your Mom with that mouth? You are probably responding this way because you think I am a Woman. You defiinitely wrong.

So you are in favour of this tax?

I already know the answer. " I am sick and tired of paying for those "Freeloaders"

"Get a Job"!!!

"Stop having kids!!!"

"Have another beer at my expense!!!"


You have probably yelled these "cowardly phrases" out someone elses car window as they drove you around.