Ken Gray: NIMBY watch

[phil235]

Originally Posted by On Edge

Why stand waiting 30 minutes in freezing rain with no shelter on a darkened backstreet for a filthy overcrowded bus, then have to transfer, wait again, and then walk to your destination, when you could simply drive?

Making driving harder does not help, there are always ways around the restrictions, or people will just put up with the congestion.

You need a good comprehensive and functional transit system. Not happening any time soon.

How about making driving more expensive to better account for its real costs? That would go a long way towards moving people to transit.

I also think you are a little harsh on OC Transpo. The buses aren't filthy, they are actually quite modern and comfortable. And you would also be amazed at how the GPS apps basically eliminate long waits for buses. Lastly, I'd say that overcrowded buses are certainly not the rule, particularly in this scenario that you conjure up involving a remote area on a dark and freezing-rainy night.

[Dr.Z]

Originally Posted by phil235

How about making driving more expensive to better account for its real costs? That would go a long way towards moving people to transit.

How does that realistically happen? Politicians/decision-makers won't touch taxation.

The problem with roads is its an unmetered utility so there is no true user pays. The person that finds a way to meter it per person/vehicle should automatically when the top planning award. In all both countries.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Dr.Z

How does that realistically happen? Politicians/decision-makers won't touch taxation.

The problem with roads is its an unmetered utility so there is no true user pays. The person that finds a way to meter it per person/vehicle should automatically when the top planning award. In all both countries.

Even in the Netherlands road pricing per KM failed... I don't think it will happen until electric cars are >50% of the market.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by phil235

And you would also be amazed at how the GPS apps basically eliminate long waits for buses.

Well, when they work. There's still a lot of wrinkles in the system, especially "extras" which don't show up in real-time data, and, for some reason, too-frequent outages on weekends.

But yes, the real-time data has been a game-changer for the smart transit user.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Dr.Z

How does that realistically happen? Politicians/decision-makers won't touch taxation.

The problem with roads is its an unmetered utility so there is no true user pays. The person that finds a way to meter it per person/vehicle should automatically when the top planning award. In all both countries.

Difficult without touching taxation. But a combination of gas taxes and revised tax rates on parking lots would certainly have an impact.

[On Edge]

Originally Posted by phil235

How about making driving more expensive to better account for its real costs? That would go a long way towards moving people to transit.

I also think you are a little harsh on OC Transpo. The buses aren't filthy, they are actually quite modern and comfortable. And you would also be amazed at how the GPS apps basically eliminate long waits for buses. Lastly, I'd say that overcrowded buses are certainly not the rule, particularly in this scenario that you conjure up involving a remote area on a dark and freezing-rainy night.

On a dark and freezing morning going to work, or afternoon coming home, between November and April.

I use the buses. They are often dirty, crowded, noisy, and grim. And often unreliable. As for making car drivers pay, etc. etc., go for it. They will mostly simply pay and keep driving.

Because transit is painful in Ottawa, and having and alternative to OCTranspo makes 99% of people feel relieved.

[McC]

Originally Posted by On Edge

As for making car drivers pay, etc. etc., go for it. They will mostly simply pay and keep driving.

that's good, because the model depends on many continuing to drive and pay so that the revenue can go towards much needed improvements to the transportation system.

[S-Man]

I'm sure the city is crossing its fingers and praying that its share of the 38% tax paid on every drop of gasoline in the city drys up and disappears.

As for Brown talking about congestion preventing goods from getting to market and costing the economy - isn't that literally the exact reason given by Kathleen Wynne for collecting billions for Toronto to take cars off the city's streets. Like, the EXACT word-for-word rationale? Does she get a free pass because she has the magic red word in her party's name?

And who needs those nasty capitalist businesses, anyway? They're mean and are bad for lakes. We need an economy based on public sector workers and people on welfare. Watch the tax revenue pour in. You'll be tripping over piles of cash allotted to transit projects then. Especially after there's no more utilities and crown corp headquarters to sell.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by S-Man

I'm sure the city is crossing its fingers and praying that its share of the 38% tax paid on every drop of gasoline in the city drys up and disappears.

As for Brown talking about congestion preventing goods from getting to market and costing the economy - isn't that literally the exact reason given by Kathleen Wynne for collecting billions for Toronto to take cars off the city's streets. Like, the EXACT word-for-word rationale? Does she get a free pass because she has the magic red word in her party's name?

And who needs those nasty capitalist businesses, anyway? They're mean and are bad for lakes. We need an economy based on public sector workers and people on welfare. Watch the tax revenue pour in. You'll be tripping over piles of cash allotted to transit projects then. Especially after there's no more utilities and crown corp headquarters to sell.

The issue is that it's an incomplete way of looking at the problem. Hudak said "goods can't get to market on a bus" and for that reason we shouldn't build more transit in Niagara, only highways. Completely ignoring the fact that the best way to ensure highways are clear for freight traffic is to remove the need for passenger traffic to use them.

We know basically nothing about Brown at this point (other than his much-maligned social conservatism) but that will obviously change in the coming years.

[S-Man]

The issue is that it's an incomplete way of looking at the problem. Hudak said "goods can't get to market on a bus" and for that reason we shouldn't build more transit in Niagara, only highways. Completely ignoring the fact that the best way to ensure highways are clear for freight traffic is to remove the need for passenger traffic to use them.

I'm not talking about Hudak. I'm talking about Brown. And Wynne, the politician who you constantly deflect for. And what both have said.

Hell, maybe if your beloved Ontario Liberals had actually plowed the highways over the past 5 years (instead of contracting it out to shady operators with poor equipment, doubling response times) there'd have been less congestion (and deaths). But who needs to move goods down the 401 and Trans-Canada, right? The world begins and ends with the GTA in this sleepwalking province.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by S-Man

I'm not talking about Hudak. I'm talking about Brown. And Wynne, the politician who you constantly deflect for. And what both have said.

Hell, maybe if your beloved Ontario Liberals had actually plowed the highways over the past 5 years (instead of contracting it out to shady operators with poor equipment, doubling response times) there'd have been less congestion (and deaths). But who needs to move goods down the 401 and Trans-Canada, right? The world begins and ends with the GTA in this sleepwalking province.

Um... thanks for putting words in my mouth about my provincial political preferences? I voted Liberal in 2014 but it was very much a 'best of the worst' type choice.

Chill, dude.

[lrt's friend]

We need a balanced approach when it comes to transportation. We just have to look back to the last Conservative government and there ongoing lack of investment in transit (next to none) and even highways. Who sold off the 407? As far as snow plowing being contracted out, isn't that exactly the conservative way of doing things?

I know the current government has many problems, but the investment in public infrastructure after so much neglect is a breath of fresh air.

[S-Man]

That's typical. Give the party that does something foolish and damaging a free pass because it resembles something a party you don't like would do.

Same actions, but one is to be applauded, the other condemned. High standards, we have.

Are you sold on selling off the public utility Hydro One too, because after all, it's something the conservatives would do?

A government of any stripe should apply proper accountability and controls to anything they outsource, and the lowest bidder on the road clearing contract didn't even have the proper amount of equipment to handle the task. But the (bargain basement) price was right, and how can a government check these things, what with all the billions of dollars and thousands of people paid to check these things?

Same things happened with the air ambulance service.... hmm.

Snow clearing after big storms went from just over 2 hours to nearly 5. And it took 5 years for anyone to notice. But that's fine. You and your family wer put in danger, but they're not conservatives, so we'd better not demand better from our government!

In the past 3 provincial elections, I've voted for 3 different parties, so don't think that I'd only ever vote for one. I hate bad governance, and this province has it in spades. But it will continue if every screwup and cynical move is quietly tolerated because a party we like less exists.

[S-Man]

LRT's friend: please forgive me if I'm a little (a lot?) hot under the collar about that issue, but years of conversations with friends who were born into a voting block (never to leave) have made me sick to my stomach on the whole polarized politics/moral equivalency thing. Ugh.

As for transit, yes, it's nice the province let the city have some of its own money back. Let's hope the $$$ is there when we need to make the downpayment.

[1overcosc]

I've met people firmly in voting blocs, from multiple sides of the spectrum, so I can understand the frustration. Rest assured I'm not a bloc voter. I always weigh all options in elections.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by S-Man

I'm not talking about Hudak. I'm talking about Brown. And Wynne, the politician who you constantly deflect for. And what both have said.

Hell, maybe if your beloved Ontario Liberals had actually plowed the highways over the past 5 years (instead of contracting it out to shady operators with poor equipment, doubling response times) there'd have been less congestion (and deaths). But who needs to move goods down the 401 and Trans-Canada, right? The world begins and ends with the GTA in this sleepwalking province.

I will give Wynne credit: she's spending more time and paying more attention to Ottawa issues than any Premier before her that I can recall. Certainly more so than the recent occupant of that office who was, theoretically at least, an Ottawa MPP.

[Proof Sheet]

New musings from the Bulldog.

http://bulldogottawa.com/jan-harders...a-top-10-list/

[MoreTrains]

4. Expropriate Bulldog World Headquarters;

Lets hope this is true!