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  #61  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 6:50 PM
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Well, I hope to see a tower like this on the 666 Fifth Ave site. With $4 billion it is possible.


1,400 ft on the roof
1,705 ft with the spire.


     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 7:13 PM
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I hope whatever is being planned will be something of 53W53 quality. The two buildings will be close.


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  #63  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 7:28 PM
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I hope whatever is being planned will be something of 53W53 quality. The two buildings will be close.


Oh yes, a 1,700 ft like 53W53 will be fantastic.
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 7:56 PM
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Anbang will have two very significant developments going on in Midtown...


https://therealdeal.com/2017/03/14/a...rf-conversion/

Anbang wants a bunch more condos at Waldorf conversion
The 409 units cited in recent test-the-market filings is up from 321 proposed last fall


By Will Parker
March 14, 2017


Quote:
Chinese investment enigma Anbang Insurance filed a “test-the-market” application with the New York State Attorney General’s Office for its planned condominium conversion of part of the Waldorf Astoria hotel. The application reveals Anbang is now considering 409 apartments for the vintage skyscraper, up from the 321 it included in last fall’s filed construction plans.

.....Anbang’s chairman Wu Xiaohui remains bullish on the city’s luxury condo market at a time when when many seasoned investors have pulled back. Bloomberg reported on Monday that Anbang plans to invest $400 million and attempt to borrow another $4 billion for yet another ambitious conversion at Kushner Companies 666 Fifth Avenue.

In a prospectus circulated to potential investors, the developers said they think the gamble will make the property worth more than $7 billion at the time of completion, the most valuable office property in the U.S. by a mile.
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  #65  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 8:05 PM
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What I like most about Anbang’s ambition and optimism is that it may prompt other foreign investors to consider opportunities within the city and its immediate outskirts. Further, should this venture prove successful, it could serve as a model for owners of other mid-century office properties throughout the city to do something similar.
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  #66  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2017, 9:46 PM
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In December 2006, Tishman Speyer, along with the German investment firm TMW, announced the sale of the building to the Kushner Properties for $1.8 billion (about $2.2 billion real value), at the time the highest price ever paid for an individual building in Manhattan. This was an unconventional price for such a short building; at 483 ft (147 m), 666 Fifth is not even among top 100 tallest buildings in New York City, but its price was mainly because of its location on Fifth Avenue across from Rockefeller Center.
-Source: Wikipedia

Interesting.
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  #67  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 12:08 AM
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^Location is always key. Interestingly, half the value of that building is for the retail, which the Kushners will keep control of.

Quote:
The deal would value the 41-story tower at $2.85 billion, the most ever for a single Manhattan building: $1.6 billion for the office section and $1.25 billion for the retail section.

.....Anbang will pay for most of the building and take out a construction loan of more than $4 billion to convert the property’s higher floors into luxury residential units. The Kushners have agreed to invest $750 million in the retail portion of the building and will end up with a one-fifth stake in a project that the deal document says would be valued at $7.2 billion when completed.

SL Green bought 11 Madison for over $2 billiion. The GM Building sold for almost $3 billion.



https://www.google.com/amp/ny.curbed...th-avenue-deal

Kushner Companies and Anbang may revive stalled tower at 666 Fifth Avenue

BY TANAY WARERKAR
MARCH 14, 2017

Quote:
In 2015, it was reported that Jared Kushner, who was still a part of Kushner Companies at the time (he stepped down earlier this year), was in talks with Steve Roth, the head of Vornado, to restructure the building into a 1,400-foot condo and hotel with a large retail component. According to the New York Post, Roth was not on board with that plan, and the paper is now reporting that the condo tower plan is back on after Anbang’s investment. (Kushner Companies hasn’t confirmed this.)

In case they stick with Hadid's work....the plan for 425 Park.


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  #68  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 4:47 PM
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Definitely one of the most exciting proposals in the world right now!

     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 5:02 PM
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But at this point the tower will only be restructure or will be built the new 1.400ft tower?
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky88 View Post
Well, I hope to see a tower like this on the 666 Fifth Ave site. With $4 billion it is possible.


1,400 ft on the roof
1,705 ft with the spire.


1,705? YES! So long as it looks good, of course. It would be better for it to be shorter and well designed than taller and ugly.
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 11:13 PM
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Not sure if this is a net gain. Losing 1.5m sf of office space in a more then decent building for ultra-luxury units isn't beneficial to the area, and it's not the best use of this parcel, (as we know its very hard to find big rectangular plots in midtown east).

This certainly feels like a vanity project, and one certainly can't help but point out the proximity to Kushner's father-in-law's tower 3 blocks away. This has all the trappings of a Trump tower 2.

That said the touted 'vertical mall' is very appropriate for 5th avenue (that could certainly be done to the existing structure), and 1,400 ft buildings are always exciting. If it is a zaha project it has the potential to be a very significant building.

This building sits on top of the 53rd street EM station, it's more then worthy of a boost in far and air rights to accommodate a residential addition on top.
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2017, 11:56 PM
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Losing 1.5m sf of office space in a more then decent building
I tend to agree with this a little as it is a perfectly fine office building. It is one though that is past its prime and cannot compete with newer properties being constructed in other parts of the city. Midtown also has plenty of similar office buildings with huge vacancies.

As you also pointed out, the retail component being discussed is perfectly appropriate and will undoubtedly be a destination.
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  #73  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSsocal View Post
Not sure if this is a net gain. Losing 1.5m sf of office space in a more then decent building for ultra-luxury units isn't beneficial to the area, and it's not the best use of this parcel, (as we know its very hard to find big rectangular plots in midtown east).
Yes and no. The building is about 20% vacant, and I'm sure whatever redevelopment of the site as office would be, it would not be the $7 Billion they are planning with the new scheme. So yes, from that standpoint, the condo tower would be the best use of the site. The retail portion of the development is more valuable (in terms of space) than the office at this point. That's the one aspect that will stay regardless. Now, if someone could put a 4 - 5 msf office tower on the site, that would probably change. But a 2 msf or less tower wouldn't amount to the value they are seeking.



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...er-not-correct

Anbang Says 'There Is No Investment' in Kushner Office Tower

by Caleb Melby and David Kocieniewski
March 14, 2017


Quote:
One day after Bloomberg News reported on a potential deal between Anbang Insurance Group and Kushner Cos. for a Manhattan office tower, the Chinese insurer said it hadn’t invested in the building.

...The three companies involved didn’t dispute the details of the financing proposal, which was shared with them prior to publication.

Of course, this is obviously true.




Another view of the potential development site, along with the rising 53W53 and 111 W. 57th.


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  #74  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 1:44 PM
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It's a shame that the Midtown East rezoning proposal doesn't extend any Transit Improvement Zones to 5th Ave. As a general matter I agree that 5th is outside of the primary business district (at least up in the 50s), but a site like this that's sitting on top of the E/M lines should be an exception.

I'm thrilled to be getting a 1400 ft building, but definitely agree that it's a waste to build $3K/SF condos on top of a subway stop... it's not like the inhabitants are going to be big users of public transport.
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 5:07 PM
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^ Blame that on city zoning. A 1 or 2 msf office tower alone wouldn't be a game changer for the site, and most of the area is starting to lean towards residential development. Like I said earlier, if they could put up a massive 4msf office tower, that would be a big difference. Fifth Avenue itself is not a huge corporate address, leaning more towards high end retail and residential. That's why this redevelopment makes sense.
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  #76  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 6:27 PM
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^ Blame that on city zoning. A 1 or 2 msf office tower alone wouldn't be a game changer for the site, and most of the area is starting to lean towards residential development. Like I said earlier, if they could put up a massive 4msf office tower, that would be a big difference. Fifth Avenue itself is not a huge corporate address, leaning more towards high end retail and residential. That's why this redevelopment makes sense.
Yes, thank you. The city's zoning is a major problem here. I would like to see a replacement of the 1.5 million sqft of office at a minimum plus however many luxury units the market demands, but that would run afoul of the city's zoning.
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 8:05 PM
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Also, the air rights from the landmarked church across the street went to 53W53. There is a proposal to allow for broader lamdmark air transfers in Midtown, but this site is just out of reach. And finally, while there is much specilation about the numbers, we just won't know the details until they are released.


https://therealdeal.com/2017/03/16/a...n-the-details/

At 666 Fifth, the devil’s in the details – and the details don’t add up
News reports of Anbang deal at Kushner’s tower leave far too many questions unanswered


By Hiten Samtani and Konrad Putzier
March 16, 2017

Quote:
....Several market observers, however, told TRD that the numbers, no matter how they’re spun, just don’t make sense. Some even questioned Anbang’s commitment to the property, saying the news reports could serve as a way for Kushner Companies to court other interested investors even if the Chinese insurer walks away.

The investor documents obtained by Bloomberg estimate that the completed redevelopment will be worth $7.2 billion. For the project to pencil out at those numbers – even assuming very rosy projections for the office and retail components – the partnership would have to be underwriting the condos at an average of up to $9,000 per square foot, the developer said. That’s a price not even the most ostentatious of the current crop of buildings has come close to – 432 Park Avenue, for example, was asking an average of $6,894 per square foot, according to an analysis by TRD in January 2014.

....“This [price point] would be an attempt to move Billionaires’ Row onto Fifth Avenue,” said Jonathan Miller, CEO of Miller Samuel.

Another red flag is the size of the construction loan. At $4 billion, it would be many multiples of anything sought for a project of its type. Some of the city’s most prominent residential developers are chasing, with mixed success, construction loans in the $1 billion-range; HFZ Capital’s Ziel Feldman, for example, is in advanced talks with the Children’s Investment Fund to provide a $1.2 billion loan at 76 11th Avenue, while Gary Barnett, who is trying to score a $900 million loan for Central Park Tower, had to refinance existing land loans on the project because he couldn’t find the money in time.

Michael Stoler, who works on financing deals at Madison Realty Capital, called the $4 billion figure at 666 Fifth “crazy” – even if it factors in the $850 million in EB-5 funds that Kushner and Anbang are seeking.

“The only way this type of deal is going to be done is with the Chinese banks and then it’s going to be a structured deal,” he said, speculating that Anbang’s relationship with lenders like the Bank of China or the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China could help attract the needed funds. CMBS lenders have largely stopped doing construction loans, and banks balk at putting this much risk on their balance sheets.

“I could not see an American bank going into this type of deal,” he said.

Related Companies and Oxford Properties Group have landed around $5 billion in construction financing for an office tower at 30 Hudson Yards and the project’s nearby retail component, but the package was made up of smaller individual loans and involved a handful of owner-occupied office condo deals.

Related is now in the market for a $2.56 billion loan to fund an office tower 50 Hudson Yards (projected total cost: $4 billion), and SL Green Realty last year landed a $1.5 billion loan from a syndicate of banks to fund the construction of its Midtown East office project One Vanderbilt.

....Bistricer argued that 666 Fifth’s smaller floor plates near the top lend themselves to a condo conversion. “There’s lot of light up there, it’s a great block,” he said. “You can make it work.”
Kushner Companies and Anbang are also looking to turn several lower floors into retail space, according to the New York Post.

Sources told TRD that Kushner Companies was in talks with Spanish billionaire Armancio Ortega, whose company Inditex (parent to retail giant Zara) owns a large retail condo at the property, to partner with them on revamping the building’s retail and buying out some of the existing tenants.

“The amount of money they have to pay to buy out existing tenants is astronomical,” said one developer who’d heard about discussions at the property. “Which what is driving the cap stack so high.”
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  #78  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2017, 11:25 PM
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Small floor-plates near the top? … relative to the podium, yes, however they are still fairly large.
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  #79  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2017, 1:19 AM
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^ I've been interested in the reconfiguration of the building since it was first announced. Sounds like it would likely involve removal of some floors, a little similar to 425 Park Avenue perhaps.

I'm also willing to go out on a limb and suggests they would be willing to work with the original scheme by Zaha Hadid.


Quote:
The $2.85 billion deal made by Kushner with the Chinese insurance giant Anbang to recapitalize 666 Fifth Ave. will allow the family company to reconfigure it into a 1,400-foot-tall luxury condominium building over a larger retail component...

As The Post reported in 2015, Jared Kushner had hired Pritzker Prize-winning architect Zaha Hadid to prepare the scheme.

The architect passed away suddenly last year, and while her firm continues, it is unclear if her plan would move forward or if another architect would be hired, or if a hotel is still planned as part of the new project.
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  #80  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2017, 1:02 PM
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^ I've been interested in the reconfiguration of the building since it was first announced. Sounds like it would likely involve removal of some floors, a little similar to 425 Park Avenue perhaps.

I'm also willing to go out on a limb and suggests they would be willing to work with the original scheme by Zaha Hadid.
     
     
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