BC Political Discussion - BC Election 2017 May 9th

[ClaytonA]

Regarding deficit spending;

Canada's 2013 taxes were 30.6% of GDP, lower than they've been since at least 1980, lower than any time in the last 35 years.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/cana...p-wb-data.html

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/consumption/...014-canada.pdf

There are things that governments have to spend money on. Otherwise the country just doesn't work very well. Federally were we going too far in the smaller role of government? Provincially I don't know, my family's looking at private school because we just don't know about the public system anymore-is it the quality it was 20 years ago? We have that ability though, and it's not just luck, it's work that gets you that ability, others don't-occaisionally because of luck as stuff happens. I know someone from school that got diagnosed with cancer a few years ago and the financial impact on his family were terrible.

We definitely seem to be becoming a less equitable (equal opportunity-equality is a fantasy) society. Less equitable places are less stable places. The margin of error is smaller. It's not a good trend.

[Bcasey25raptor]

Year out prediction.

Massive majority for the LINOs, worst outcome for the NDP since 2001, NDP collapses federally within a decade, and the party becomes an afterthought in BC within 8 years, greens rise and take the progressive vote.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Year out prediction.

Massive majority for the LINOs, worst outcome for the NDP since 2001, NDP collapses federally within a decade, and the party becomes an afterthought in BC within 8 years, greens rise and take the progressive vote.

BC Liberals and Green Party. That would certainly be a very unique two party system.

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Year out prediction.

Massive majority for the LINOs, worst outcome for the NDP since 2001, NDP collapses federally within a decade, and the party becomes an afterthought in BC within 8 years, greens rise and take the progressive vote.

I have too agree with you! That party is very much a discredit to society! Leap Manifesto sounds similar to Communism and Marxism! It has radical idea's with no real solutions to modern society. Everybody will get everything and there will be no way to pay for it!

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

I have too agree with you! That party is very much a discredit to society! Leap Manifesto sounds similar to Communism and Marxism! It has radical idea's with no real solutions to modern society. Everybody will get everything and there will be no way to pay for it!

Yeah the current model of some people getting everything and having no way to pay for it is way better.

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Yeah the current model of some people getting everything and having no way to pay for it is way better.

I love it! please explain? Perhaps you have a really good model for us in society to learn from? Some work some get thing's for free is that it?Perhaps we could all live in igloos Logic nothing from you! Your Leap Manifesto and Naomi Campbell! I love this because you have probably never heard of her before me!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

I love it! please explain? Perhaps you have a really good model for us in society to learn from? Some work some get thing's for free is that it?Perhaps we could all live in igloos Logic nothing from you! Your Leap Manifesto and Naomi Campbell! I love this because you have probably never heard of her before me!

I don't know how to make sense of your incoherent message. I think his point was that our current lifestyle and extreme reliance on limited resource extraction will have an end point. We, certainly the first world in particular, don't live in a sustainable way that can be supported forever. Some things must change eventually. Similarly to climate change, the longer we wait, the more painful the eventual adjustment will be.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

I have too agree with you! That party is very much a discredit to society! Leap Manifesto sounds similar to Communism and Marxism! It has radical idea's with no real solutions to modern society. Everybody will get everything and there will be no way to pay for it!

Have you read it? I mean actually read it? I'm not sure you have, because very little of it would be considered communism (maybe, just maybe, the call for universal basic annual income might be, but that's being looked at in a number of places already that aren't communist). Investing in public infrastructure is communist? Cuts to military spending are communist?

[Alex Mackinnon]

Suggesting renewables belong primarily to co-ops and first nations maybe?

Also, high speed rail to every community? Come on, who wrote that crap?

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Suggesting renewables belong primarily to co-ops and first nations maybe?

Also, high speed rail to every community? Come on, who wrote that crap?

Don't agree with those, but everything else is common sense.

We have to progress forward instead of favoring the status quo. Funny thing is, these aren't even "radical loony leftist" that are being proposed.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Well, seeing as resource extraction is the only thing keeping what's left of the economy afloat (that, and Chinese real estate), might I suggest we find another source of GDP before Leap-ing?

[Bcasey25raptor]

Another oil slick in english bay.

Again

http://www.news1130.com/2016/04/15/l...n-english-bay/

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Don't agree with those, but everything else is common sense.

We have to progress forward instead of favoring the status quo. Funny thing is, these aren't even "radical loony leftist" that are being proposed.

Don't you remember the transit referendum?

[mezzanine]

At the end of the day, the economy is doing relatively well and the BCNDP doesn't seem to offer a compelling vision for what they would do differently.

IMO what Victoria did to translink is just awful, but I'm not sure if people care. And to her credit, CC's government has shown ongoing fiscal discipline. Not sure about all the promises from LNG, but the commodities crash IMO helped us not write cheques that we would have trouble paying off in the future unlike alberta.

Unless something drastic happens, people won't be interested in changing the status quo as it stands.

[Metro-One]

The thing is, it is not the fear of changing our energy proprieties, it is that the NDP seem to be against ALL resource extraction / major energy projects.

Whenever you hear that a nation or other region is this % relying on renewable energy, that includes hydro! And guess what, the NDP are against Site C! Also news flash, wind turbines and solar panels need REE which involves major open pit mines. Will they be allowing these mines to open in BC? Probably not! What about building some facotires that manufacture magnets / wind turbines / etc?? No, that is nasty industrial stuff, don't want that here!

This is where i find the BC NDP and BC style environmentalism in general to be amazingly hypocritical and dangerous.

It is not about taking responsibility, it is about passing the bucket of our energy / resource responsibility to someone else. Out of sight, out of mind.

If you truly want to be an environmental leader, we would continue with our LNG and indeed some oil projects, but conduct them with the highest environmental regulations and monitoring possible. That way we can develop safer / cleaner methods and get some return to the economy in the process, while at the same time developing new alternatives.

In the end, the truth is, if we simply ban these activities within our borders, well, then they will simply go to another jurisdiction where we have NO control. Often, these other jurisdictions are developing nations where the environmental damage in the end to the Earth is far worse.

Europe learned the hard way about this over a decade ago regarding REE. Mining was pretty much banned / greatly reduced across much of Europe, leaving China to slowly corner 96% of the REE market (and causing an environmental disaster while doing so). After realizing this, and the fact that everyone loves computers and cell phones (which need REE), mining again has expanded into Europe where it can far better be controlled environmentally.

Then there is my environmental worry about the Green bandwagon in BC, solar. I have long worried about solar farms being built in BC for one major reason. There are only two regions in the southern half of the province the receive enough sunshine for solar farms to make any sense at all, the Okanagan / Thompson / Fraser grasslands, and the Gulf Islands / South Vancouver Island. These two regions also happen to be the two most endangered ecosystems in Canada, with limited area and already extreme land pressure from urban development and agriculture. I never never never want to see any of our two most endangered ecosystems lost to large sprawling solar farms.

Where solar does make sense is on house / business rooftops (which they do here in Japan) that would be a good program. But, before you get all excited about that, even though there are many solar roofs around me here, there is also a massive shipyard only 2 KM away from my house continuously building massive LNG ships and only 5km is a massive LNG energy plant

[Stingray2004]

Last week, a BC Lib cabinet minister was a guest speaker at the BC Building Trades union convention, was warmly greeted and received a standing ovation. As I stated in an earlier post... that is essentially a historical political first in BC.

Today, someone inside the Steelworker's Union released an internal memo to the media... basically a scathing indictment of the BC NDP - long-time allies - another historical political first:

Vaughn Palmer: B.C. NDP Needs Credible Economic and Jobs Plan, Leaked Memo Says

Vancouver Sun

Published on: April 14, 2016

VICTORIA — From inside the United Steelworkers comes a telling lament about the relationship with the B.C. New Democrats since the union backed John Horgan for the party leadership.

“When the leader ran for the job, he staked out positions that are at odds with subsequent action, “ says the internal memo, referencing how the NDP has lagged in articulating the economic growth, job creation and resource development specifics promised by Horgan.

Consequently, the steelworkers and other private-sector unions have been “bewildered at not only the lack of progress on a vigorous jobs agenda, but frustrated at the ease which the governing party has labelled the NDP as saying ‘no’ to economic progress.”

Even where Horgan and the other NDP MLAs have done well — “caucus has notched several good sessions of the legislature” — the memo says those accomplishments have failed to connect to the province beyond the capital.

“This is reflected as an inability to brand the government — in a political environment where there is ostensibly less anger at the incumbent government than in the last election — and an inability to brand ourselves, while successfully being labelled as the party that says ‘no’ to economic development.”

The five-page memo was drafted earlier this year by union staff, circulated to some members and party supporters, then leaked this week to The Vancouver Sun. When reporter Rob Shaw called union and party for reaction Thursday, he triggered a scramble for cover that consumed the better part of the day.

...

http://vancouversun.com/opinion/colu...aked-memo-says

Steelworkers Sharply Criticize B.C. NDP

ROB SHAW

Vancouver Sun

Published on: April 15, 2016

VICTORIA — One of the B.C. New Democratic Party’s largest union allies is expressing deep frustration with the party’s lack of organization, and questioning if it can win next year’s provincial election.

The United Steelworkers of Western Canada are losing confidence in the NDP’s ability to defeat the B.C. Liberals in 2017, according to an internal memo obtained by The Vancouver Sun.

The memo suggested the union threaten to pull its financial support for the NDP’s election campaign and blasted the party for poor planning, treating organized labour like a bank machine and failing to develop a jobs plan for the resource sector.

“Our concern at the lack of a cohesive provincial office and leaders’ office and the lack of campaign planning has culminated in our advising that there will be no more financial and in-kind assistance until a plan is developed,” said the memo, which threatened to instead only fund “local NDP candidates who best share our values.”

An apparent lack of consultation with organized labour on key issues “adds to the perception that the party only views the labour unions as an ATM; the only time our views are heard is when they are attached to a cheque,” read the memo.

“Suffice it to say, the growing level of frustration at providing financial and other support, with the lack of a message we believe our members need to hear to be successful in target ridings, has allowed us to join those who have or are losing confidence the NDP can win the next election.”

....

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...ticize-b-c-ndp

Frankly. Unreal. Further corroborates the notion that the BC NDP is going after "green" voters and the Green Party as their major competition. Problem is that very few of the 87 BC seats have said message as a motivating vote factor - West Kootenays/inner Van City proper/southern Van Isle.

What also raised eye-brows last week is the fact that BC NDP leader John Horgan has publicly stated that a universal $10/day child care program will comprise part of their 2017 platform.

Prior to the 2013 BC election, said program was costed at ~$2 billion/annum in additional program spending. Back then the BC NDP stated "It's not an option - just too expensive". I guess the BC NDP is turning ideologically left in 2017 for the first time in over 40 years as well. BTW, apparently $billions more in annual program spending will be part of the 2017 BC NDP platform as well.

I can potentially foresee a political vacuum opening up in BC with the BC NDP turning both "green" and moving ideologically leftward.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Frankly. Unreal. Further corroborates the notion that the BC NDP is going after "green" voters and the Green Party as their major competition. Problem is that very few of the 87 BC seats have said message as a motivating vote factor - West Kootenays/inner Van City proper/southern Van Isle.

What also raised eye-brows last week is the fact that BC NDP leader John Horgan has publicly stated that a universal $10/day child care program will comprise part of their 2017 platform.

Prior to the 2013 BC election, said program was costed at ~$2 billion/annum in additional program spending. Back then the BC NDP stated "It's not an option - just too expensive". I guess the BC NDP is turning ideologically left in 2017 for the first time in over 40 years as well. BTW, apparently $billions more in annual program spending will be part of the 2017 BC NDP platform as well.

I can potentially foresee a political vacuum opening up in BC with the BC NDP turning both "green" and moving ideologically leftward.

That's both strange and counter-intuitive. Wouldn't it make more sense for the NDP and Greens to team up against the Liberals, instead of just fighting over the table scraps?

[Metro-One]

I actually think that the universal daycare is a good idea (especially if we want to encourage natural birth rates to increase) but the NDP of the olden days would have had such a proposal alongside increasing LNG projects / revenue and other industrial attempts at directly helping the trades industries / common man.

Now it is all abut pandering to the downtown, university educated, selling coffee, armchair environmentalist that have no real grasp on how the world (or even the province) works (likely having been pampered all their life).

[Bcasey25raptor]

The NDP needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Trying to appeal to the environmentalist crowd won't win them elections, they need to steal BC Liberal voters, not prevent the greens from rising.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

The NDP needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Trying to appeal to the environmentalist crowd won't win them elections, they need to steal BC Liberal voters, not prevent the greens from rising.

Right on!!! Trouble is, the NDP seem too naïve to realize that. Hope I'm wrong.