The 401

[sonysnob]

^ Umm... the largest highway expansion project in Canadian history was just built in Windsor, no?

[Innsertnamehere]

AADT in windsor on the 401 isn't even over 30,000.. if that warrants a 6 laning, almost every 400 series highway needs to be 6 lanes apparently. Let's be clear - the busiest part of the highway is not Windsor. It's in the middle of Toronto. Traffic levels near Windsor are actually quite low, albeit with a heavy truck presence.

I realize that Chatham Kent isn't Windsor.. I and I debated changing that in my post afterwards. My point moreso was that it isn't like the province is ignoring southwestern Ontario - per capita they have been giving them far, far more in capital spending in the last 15 years than the Toronto area. The 401 through central Toronto carries more cars in a day than the 401 through windsor carries in a month. It's a whole different equation. There are deaths on the portion of the 401 getting widened as well regularly as the traffic levels are so high. The highway sits at a standstill through that stretch for probably 14 hours a day, the traffic is that bad. Right now, 2pm on a saturday, there is an 8km backup going eastbound. 2pm. Saturday.

[ssiguy]

Chatham-Kent does have a safety issue. The crosswinds in the area are very heavy and particularly bad for transports. This is why the 401 in CK has a far disproportionate number of accidents.

Anyway as a Vancouverite & BCer it very hard to feel any empathy. Our roads are horrid. As an example our truck crossing has to grow thru school zones, residential areas, tractor and farm equipment crossings and usuage, no overpasses, lights at the bottom of three very steep hills which brings the transport traffic to a halt, go thru a major town area, and a total of 14 traffic lights just to make it to HWY#1. Some of the intersectins don't even have turning lanes.

Beleive it or not getting from the ferries or YVR to HWY#1, which is the only viable route to the rest of the province/country, is even harder.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Chatham-Kent does have a safety issue. The crosswinds in the area are very heavy and particularly bad for transports. This is why the 401 in CK has a far disproportionate number of accidents.

Anyway as a Vancouverite & BCer it very hard to feel any empathy. Our roads are horrid. As an example our truck crossing has to grow thru school zones, residential areas, tractor and farm equipment crossings and usuage, no overpasses, lights at the bottom of three very steep hills which brings the transport traffic to a halt, go thru a major town area, and a total of 14 traffic lights just to make it to HWY#1. Some of the intersectins don't even have turning lanes.

Beleive it or not getting from the ferries or YVR to HWY#1, which is the only viable route to the rest of the province/country, is even harder.

That's why the provincial government actually had to reconstruct 401 through C-K this summer.
And boy if one does not know about this history (the history of frequent accidents, especially the big one that happened in 1998), he or she won't understand why OPP at C-K stops cars at 106 kph (legend has it).
I hope that part gets 6-laned too though, in which case so should the portion through Elgin County just to make it consistent. LoL, I can't imagine 474 km of 6-laned 401 though.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by north 42

Sorry, but the 401 should have been extended to the border in Windsor decades ago! It's very warranted, and so was the expansion to 6 lanes with medians throughout Essex County! Windsor is the busiest border crossing in the country and serves massive trade between the two countries. The entire length of the 401 should be at least 6 lanes with medians. It's an embarrassment that this hasn't already been done on Canada's busiest highway! Not every penny of money for the highway needs to go to the GTA!

I don't know how to multi-quote so I have to do this.
Assuming that some of those traffic actually comes from Western Canada though, I would rather the money be spent on twinning the entirety of Highway 17 to (1) divert the traffic off 401 and (2) keep those trucks in Canada so people will find Northern Ontario livable.

[haljackey]

2 Articles on the London Free Press regarding safety issues between Tilbury and London


Highway 401: Woman leads fight for more median barriers to save others from friend's fate
http://www.lfpress.com/2017/10/03/hi...m-friends-fate


Median barriers: A Southwestern Ontario drive to install the devices west of London heads to Queen’s Park today
http://www.lfpress.com/2017/10/03/me...ens-park-today

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Chatham-Kent does have a safety issue. The crosswinds in the area are very heavy and particularly bad for transports. This is why the 401 in CK has a far disproportionate number of accidents.

Anyway as a Vancouverite & BCer it very hard to feel any empathy. Our roads are horrid. As an example our truck crossing has to grow thru school zones, residential areas, tractor and farm equipment crossings and usuage, no overpasses, lights at the bottom of three very steep hills which brings the transport traffic to a halt, go thru a major town area, and a total of 14 traffic lights just to make it to HWY#1. Some of the intersectins don't even have turning lanes.

Beleive it or not getting from the ferries or YVR to HWY#1, which is the only viable route to the rest of the province/country, is even harder.

yeah, bc takes it to another level of wretched connectionmanship.
Although the province has made great strides with the new second narrows and golden ears bridges, the connection between highway 1 and highway 99 is downright beyond embarrassing.

Don't even get me started on that horrible tunnel between Delta and Richmond (where I lived for 4 years in the 90s).

[haljackey]

Will the 401 see a median between Tilbury and London?

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/10/17/se...edian-barriers

[Jake Potter]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Will the 401 see a median between Tilbury and London?

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/10/17/se...edian-barriers

Very interesting

[MolsonExport]

definitely needed. The fatality rate is unacceptable.

[Dengler Avenue]

Then there's the stretch between Prescott and 416. Has anyone seen the news?
It's becoming frustrating when all Del Duca said is "It's not part of the plan". Enough with that attitude!
Ps: There was a fatality on Highway 9 near his riding, and he hasn't even done anything yet.
This government's just slow at improving infrastructure.

[1overcosc]

The mayor of Prescott is pushing for the MTO to commit to 6 laning the 401 through Eastern Ontario in response to the latest fatality there.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The mayor of Prescott is pushing for the MTO to commit to 6 laning the 401 through Eastern Ontario in response to the latest fatality there.

I wonder if adding 1 lane each direction just from Highway 15 to Highway 138 would do though. Let's be real here: maintaining 825 km of 6-laned freeway can be quite costly. As much as I would like that idea, it's a costly one.

Alternatively, has anyone considered twinning the TCH to divert some of those cross-country truck traffic from the 401? For more detail, check out http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=229872

[haljackey]

If the 407 got extended all the way to the 417 it would take a lot of strain off the 401 as it would handle the Toronto-Ottawa traffic.

But that's building a highway with modern standards in the Canadian Shield. Very costly. Tolling it would help pay for the cost but would deter many drivers. It would be much easier to widen the 401, at least to the 416.

Along with the widening, the concrete median and left shoulder would help make the highway safer.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by haljackey

If the 407 got extended all the way to the 417 it would take a lot of strain off the 401 as it would handle the Toronto-Ottawa traffic.

But that's building a highway with modern standards in the Canadian Shield. Very costly. Tolling it would help pay for the cost but would deter many drivers. It would be much easier to widen the 401, at least to the 416.

Along with the widening, the concrete median and left shoulder would help make the highway safer.

Even today, I still have the vision of extending 402 by twinning the present-day alignment of Highway 7 (except for the part between Guelph and Newmarket/Georgina, where the 402 extension will go along Highway 24, bypass Caledon on the west, get back on Highway 10, then Highway 9 to meet 400, and follow the 404 extension until Highway 12). Twinning the section of Highway 7 between Peterborough and Carleton Place is actually doable.

But then problems ensue:
(1) 10 lanes of 401 through Cambridge will probably be useless because a substantial amount of traffic will be diverted onto "402" and 6 in that case, what a waste of money and blood and tears eh?
(2) Highway 6 will be very congested 24/7.
(3) Also, 402 will look very circuitous, going up and down. I'm not sure if people will like that.
(4) Personally, I find it weird to have 2 freeways only 40 km apart (which is the distance from Belleville to Madoc via Highway 62) in the middle of nowhere. It makes sense to have 401 and 407 only five blocks apart because the area in between is very dense. However, such is definitely not the case between 401 and present-day Highway 7.

What do you guys think?

Ps: Imagine Highway 7 completely wiped off the map because it's supplanted by the 402 (not 407!!), and 402 tripling (if not quadrupling) in length. Also, in that case, we should strip Highway 12 of the TCH status and just put it on 402 between 400 and 417.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Even today, I still have the vision of extending 402 by twinning the present-day alignment of Highway 7 (except for the part between Guelph and Newmarket/Georgina, where the 402 extension will go along Highway 24, bypass Caledon on the west, get back on Highway 10, then Highway 9 to meet 400, and follow the 404 extension until Highway 12). Twinning the section of Highway 7 between Peterborough and Carleton Place is actually doable.

The major congestion problems on the 400-series highways are largely an urban phenomenon. Sure, a bypass might help get some traffic around cities, but the bulk of traffic is local. It's an expensive solution that won't help most people. The problem isn't Peterborough to Ottawa or Sarnia to Kitchener, it is from Kitchener-Waterloo to Oshawa. The highway you propose is too far north to be of any use to the people who need it the most.

There's no 'easy' solution to the problem.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by wave46

The major congestion problems on the 400-series highways are largely an urban phenomenon. Sure, a bypass might help get some traffic around cities, but the bulk of traffic is local. It's an expensive solution that won't help most people. The problem isn't Peterborough to Ottawa or Sarnia to Kitchener, it is from Kitchener-Waterloo to Oshawa. The highway you propose is too far north to be of any use to the people who need it the most.

There's no 'easy' solution to the problem.

Blame it on urban sprawling? :p

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Blame it on urban sprawling? :p

More like blaming it on the fact that the population of the Golden Horseshoe has probably tripled since the 1950s. There's probably close to 10 million people there now.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by wave46

More like blaming it on the fact that the population of the Golden Horseshoe has probably tripled since the 1950s. There's probably close to 10 million people there now.

The Greater Golden Horseshoe, not the Golden Horseshoe is closer to 10 million

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by wave46

The major congestion problems on the 400-series highways are largely an urban phenomenon. Sure, a bypass might help get some traffic around cities, but the bulk of traffic is local. It's an expensive solution that won't help most people. The problem isn't Peterborough to Ottawa or Sarnia to Kitchener, it is from Kitchener-Waterloo to Oshawa. The highway you propose is too far north to be of any use to the people who need it the most.

There's no 'easy' solution to the problem.

well said. I agree.