Supertalls in the USA.

Krases · #1 Posted **Jan 16, 2009, 5:15 AM**

Why is it that Dubai has so many massive construction projects for just one city, but the entire USA doesn't seem to have as many supertalls going up?

I know that the economy is to blame now, but even in the 90's it didn't seem like much was happening in the area of supertalls.

Did 9/11 really create that much fear in the USA when it came to supertalls?

plinko · #2 Posted **Jan 16, 2009, 6:24 AM**

We hate them because they block out the sun. Dubai is in the desert...where blocking out the sun is a good thing.

Steely Dan · #3 Posted **Jan 16, 2009, 3:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krases

Why is it that Dubai has so many massive construction projects for just one city, but the entire USA doesn't seem to have as many supertalls going up?

supertall skyscrapers don't make much economic sense by themselves, so a significant amount of ego is necessary to get them up into the sky. right now cities in asia (dubai, shanghai, 3 dozen other chinese cities you've never heard of, etc.) are the rising stars with something to prove, so the necessary ego to build attention grabbing supertalls abounds.

Austinlee · #4 Posted **Jan 16, 2009, 4:14 PM**

Yes, I will echo what Steely Dan said; Right now Asia and certain countries in the middle east are growing the fastest and have the most ambition so those places are where the towers are rising. The United States is reaching a mature country status like Europe and Japan where growth is slowing or even declining in some countries. Our boom period was in the early 1900's. Now it's asia and the middle east's turn.

By the way, the global slowdown right now has halted many projects planned for Dubai. I think you'll see their explosive growth slowing down considerably in the future.

NYguy · #5 Posted **Jan 16, 2009, 4:23 PM**

Building tall simply for bragging rights was something that was over in the US decades ago. Ironically, it was only after 9/11 that cities in the US began to look at skyscrapers as symbols again.

It's important to note that skyscrapers in the US (and a lot of other places) are built in established cities on actual city streets. You can't simply drop a 2,000 ft tower down in the middle of any American city without years of planning and study, along with an approval process that includes the concerns of the local citizens.

Is there a need for the many supertalls being built around the world? Of course not. But its the symbolism these cities around the world hope to get, and it's not a bad thing. But as much as I would like to see a few built here, it says a lot about ourselves that we don't need the symbolism as much.

photoLith · #6 Posted **Jan 16, 2009, 8:38 PM**

Some developer that is buying lots in downtown Houston [I forget his name] wants to build the worlds tallest building downtown. I dont think its ever going to happen, but I sure hope it does. Houston has but 1 supertall, 1,004 ft tall and that was built decades ago.

In all honesty, I dont really care about a whole bunch of supertalls going up in most southern or midwestern cities. Id be happier with 4 500-700 ft tall buildings going in on 4 parking lots rather than just seeing 1 supertall go in.

M II A II R II K · #7 Posted **Jan 16, 2009, 8:50 PM**

Another factor in the Middle East & China is far cheaper labour and less red tape to go through to get them approved as well as no NIMBY's since they have little say if any at all.

Krases · #8 Posted **Jan 16, 2009, 10:20 PM**

Looking at the new WTC I realize that it has almost three times as much square footage for the entire complex compared to Burj Dubai. I guess access to borderline slave labor and less red tape has a lot to do with it when it comes to all thee countries building these huge towers.

Then again...there are a lot of illegal immigrants in the USA that nobody would miss...just kidding lol.

JManc · #9 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 5:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by photolitherland

Some developer that is buying lots in downtown Houston [I forget his name] wants to build the worlds tallest building downtown. I dont think its ever going to happen, but I sure hope it does. Houston has but 1 supertall, 1,004 ft tall and that was built decades ago.

In all honesty, I dont really care about a whole bunch of supertalls going up in most southern or midwestern cities. Id be happier with 4 500-700 ft tall buildings going in on 4 parking lots rather than just seeing 1 supertall go in.

we could have had 2 or 3 more supertalls had the oil industry not bottomed out in the early 80's.

GO_UAE · #10 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 7:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA Pride

By the way, the global slowdown right now has halted many projects planned for Dubai. I think you'll see their explosive growth slowing down considerably in the future.

Yes i agree 100%. However, Dubai was growing at a sickening rate of what , 500% ?

65% of the proposed project have been put on hold for 1 year ... the ones that have been announced and broke ground are still under construction , so i would say that put Dubai at a healthy 110% sickening construction growth rate

Economics can be as complicated as it wants to be , but one thing is crystal clear. When Shiekh Mohammed approaced the president for financial aid , he clearly said he was ok with paying the trillion+ he needed for the approved u/c projects but under one condition , that NONE of the proposed projects take shape until things are ok again. and thats what is happening now.

BTinSF · #11 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 8:53 AM**

Two things that prevent supertalls in San Francisco are concerns of the first responders and the issue of sunlight. We have an ordinance forbidding any new building from shadowing a public open space. That in itself may have cut a couple hundred feet off the proposed TransBay Tower. But the spector of the efforts of firemen to reach the upper floors of the twin towers will not go away either. Many people have argued that better design could have made it easier to evacuate those buildings and for fire crews to get to the fires on high floors, but the safety issue will always be there, especially in earthquake country.

BTinSF · #12 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 8:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA Pride

By the way, the global slowdown right now has halted many projects planned for Dubai. I think you'll see their explosive growth slowing down considerably in the future.

I'm betting the construction boom in Dubai will turn out to have been the biggest bubble of the late 20th and early 21st centuries. I simply have yet to hear an economic reason for the existence of all that real estate other than the ego of the rulers and the wealth that the transient peak in oil prices put at their disposal. Who is supposed to live and work in all that space over the long haul?

Krases · #13 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 5:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTinSF

I'm betting the construction boom in Dubai will turn out to have been the biggest bubble of the late 20th and early 21st centuries. I simply have yet to hear an economic reason for the existence of all that real estate other than the ego of the rulers and the wealth that the transient peak in oil prices put at their disposal. Who is supposed to live and work in all that space over the long haul?

By what I read, only 6% of there economy is oil based. Whether that is true or not, I don't know.

The closest thing the USA has to Dubai is my wonderful city of Las Vegas. Its growth has been rapid, but far more controlled than Dubai's growth.

JDRCRASH · #14 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 5:24 PM**

Dubai is in for a gargantuan collapse, especially when Dubailand is completed.

Tom In Chicago · #15 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 6:38 PM**

^What do these last posts have to do with the Supertalls in the U.S.A.?

BTinSF · #16 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 7:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krases

By what I read, only 6% of there economy is oil based. Whether that is true or not, I don't know.

That's consistent with what I've read. They don't get a lot of income from oil. Abu Dhabi is the UAE oil power.

But my point is simply that any city or country with the money to do it can build supertalls and Dubai can get the money, to a large extent by borrowing it. The big question mark in my mind hanging over Dubai is who occupies them and why? Because if they aren't really economically useful, they will ultimately be a failure.

In New York, very tall buildings got built because the land was so expensive it was (is) more economic to build up when new space is needed. Same with Hong Kong (although the land constraint was more political). But Dubai is desert and I don't think the availability of land is a problem. I also wonder if the space is even needed and we won't know until the speculative phase of the real estate boom is over and the people owning space they don't plan to occupy and use try to sell or rent it.

BTinSF · #17 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 7:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

^What do these last posts have to do with the Supertalls in the U.S.A.?

The person who started the thread opened it with the question "Why is it that Dubai has so many massive construction projects for just one city, but the entire USA doesn't seem to have as many supertalls going up?"

Obviously, to discuss that one must explore why supertalls are getting built in Dubai and whether that really makes sense. If there's a problem, it's with the thread title, not the direction the posts are taking.

Bergenser · #18 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 8:21 PM**

There are zero supertalls in Europe, so you guys are better off.
Asia is #1 Skyscraper continent for the moment/future.

Tom In Chicago · #19 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 9:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTinSF

The person who started the thread opened it with the question "Why is it that Dubai has so many massive construction projects for just one city, but the entire USA doesn't seem to have as many supertalls going up?"

Obviously, to discuss that one must explore why supertalls are getting built in Dubai and whether that really makes sense. If there's a problem, it's with the thread title, not the direction the posts are taking.

I see. . . carry on. . .

photoLith · #20 Posted **Jan 18, 2009, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bergenser

There are zero supertalls in Europe, so you guys are better off.
Asia is #1 Skyscraper continent for the moment/future.

Moscow is getting a few, and then London is getting the Shard and what not, I believe theres at least one supertall going in in London. Isnt there a supertall also going in at Le Defense?