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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 5:50 AM
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Exclamation Mountain West water issue thread

Since water does seem to be a fun and interesting topic I thought I would start a thread for water issues.

To start it off I thought I would post my earlier comments about water:

You want to talk about water Pueblo has the most in the state of Colorado. We have enough for a city of about 500,000 people and buying more now that will give us enough water for a city close to 750,000 people. In fact some Denver suburbs, including Aurora, lease water from Pueblo. That keeps my rates low and I have no restrictions on my water usage.

In the west if you want to find the power don't follow the money but the water! That is one of the main reasons, Pueblo a city of only 100,000 people, commands so much power in the state of Colorado.

The one thing I like about sky scrapers is that we can all disagree but respect everyone's opinions. Lets keep that going in this thread!

Thanks,

Eeyore
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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 10:27 PM
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It scares me to think about the potential water problems this state (and the region) will have in the coming decades. I don't know a lot of details about the whole subject but I do know this; we have a lot of thirsty customers downstream that guzzle the stuff like crazy and it isn't going to be a sustainable lifestyle if the West keeps growing like it does. I am sick of Denver getting no-water days and conservation measures when many cities in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah have lesser restrictions. Also, cities that aren't planning ahead, like Highlands Ranch, really get under my skin. What will happen when their aquafers dry up? Great, another 100k people leeching off of Denver water and its system. That won't push up rates or anything. Meanwhile, yuppies green their lawns like there's no tomorrow when almost all of them probably think their water comes from the snowy mountains above.

It's gonna be a sad wake-up call for all the front range when population growth, groundwater shortage and climate change all hit at once.
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  #3  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 10:46 PM
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What makes me sick, is if you don't water and keep your lawn looking nice, they start talking bad about you throughout the neighborhood. It's like they judge people not by their character, but by their lawn. I would just assume tear up the entire lawn and plant a low maintenance, xeroscape in it's place. One neighbor who mows his lawn twice every 8 days (3 days mow, then 2 days mow, etc,...), I told him about my ambitions for the tearing up the lawn and replacing it with a beautiful garden. He got upset and said he didn't want me to do that. He said it would be bad for the neighborhood and that some of those plants might spread into his lawn.

He obviously doesn't care about the environment.
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  #4  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 10:50 PM
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For the most part, the only water Colorado gets is what falls here. A look a map will show this isn't quite true since there are a few small tributaries that originate elsewhere and briefly pass through the NW and SE corners of the state.

I am of the opinion that Colorado needs to be much more vigilant about protecting its water rights, especially until Arizona and So. California can take some proactive steps to conserve water there.

Building a metropolis where Phoenix sits and allowing it to sprawl across the desert with retirement communities lining green golf courses is high on my list of sins against the environment. The lack of freshwater flowing into the Gulf of California in the Colorado River delta is another one.

Water is a huge issue in the semi-arid west. It has sparked all sorts of contention and not-so-civil debate. It's a tricky issue bound to get even trickier with rain and snowfall patterns expected to change with the climate.
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Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:08 PM
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The ignorance on this thread is already too annoying but simply:

1. Phoenix gets its water from several sources, not simply the Colorado River.

2. ...

eh, I already don't feel like "arguing" this toping and I can't continue, hasn't this topic been rehashed about a million times on this forum before?
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  #6  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHX31 View Post
The ignorance on this thread is already too annoying but simply:

1. Phoenix gets its water from several sources, not simply the Colorado River.

2. ...

eh, I already don't feel like "arguing" this toping and I can't continue, hasn't this topic been rehashed about a million times on this forum before?
Nope. Not really.

Phoenix does get it's water from several sources, but The Colorado is the main source.

From the EPA water-sense website -

"The city of Phoenix ’s water supply comes primarily from the Central Arizona Project (CAP) which transports Colorado River water, and the Salt River Project (SRP). A small amount of Phoenix ’ supply comes from wells, or groundwater. The largest renewable supply source is the Colorado River. Arizona is apportioned 2.8 million acre-feet annually of Colorado River water."

P.S.

A city of 4 million people in the desert makes no sense. Especially when you consider that arizona has almost 300 golf courses in the state. Denver has water restrictions, it is ludicrous that phoenix does not.

End of story.
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Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:28 PM
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What I don't understand is that people say they want to help the environment by using less water? Now I understand if you city does not have enough water you should conserve to make sure there is plenty of water to go around. That being said if you city has plenty of water then how does using less water save the environment? Perhaps someone can explain that to me....
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Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottk View Post
Nope. Not really.

Phoenix does get it's water from several sources, but The Colorado is the main source.



P.S.

A city of 4 million people in the desert makes no sense. Especially when you consider that arizona has almost 300 golf courses in the state.

Again, more ignorance.

Checking the City of Phoenix's website, 54% of the City of Phoenix's water comes from SRP (Salt River), 36% comes from CAP (colorado river), 7% is reclaimed, 3% is ground.

And a large percentage of the water used on golf courses is from reclaimed wastewater.
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Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:37 PM
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Ignorance is building a city in the desert.


I simply quoted the EPA website.

I had assumed that the colorado was the main source based on the website. It is, however, still a major source.
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Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:49 PM
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Ignorance is building a city in the desert.


I simply quoted the EPA website.

I had assumed that the colorado was the main source based on the website. It is, however, still a major source.
Half of the country is in a desert. Where would you have all the cities, in the tropics? Who wants to live there, not me.
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Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
What I don't understand is that people say they want to help the environment by using less water? Now I understand if you city does not have enough water you should conserve to make sure there is plenty of water to go around. That being said if you city has plenty of water then how does using less water save the environment? Perhaps someone can explain that to me....
Because the water purification process produces trillions of cubic meters of gaseous carbon dioxide emissions. Not just from the electricity used by the plant to purify the water, but also the greenhouse gases produced by the industrial processes to produced the chemicals used in the water. Furthermore, more direct environmental issues arise, such as the fact that the Colorado River rarely ever reaches the Gulf of Mexico now (mainly because of Phoenix), resulting in disappearing native fish populations and a salinity increase in the upper Gulf of Mexico basin.

With Phoenix's proximity to the Gulf of Mexico, they need to work with Mexico on a plan to desalinate sea-water and pump it into Arizona to a new reservoir, and then release an equal share of Colorado River water back to nature. If this proves to be too costly to them, they need to pass the most ambitious growth suppression laws in the nation, matched by the strictest water usage laws on Earth. To the degree that the same population in Phoenix as now, will only use one third the water which they currently use.
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Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:54 PM
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^^ I don't believe that.

Even if it is true that half of the country is desert, very few cities are established in deserts.

Most of the population in America is on the eastern seaboard, where the average city receives 30+ inches of rainfall in a year. A huge portion of America's population lives in florida, and chicago. Both rainy places. Seattle and portland also come to mind as cities that receive rainfall.

Phoenix, Las Vegas, Southern california, and texas are exceptions.
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Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottk View Post
Ignorance is building a city in the desert.
hmmmmm tell that to half of the planet.



Is building cities in the woods better? What about cutting down all of the trees?

Is building cities in the tropical rain forests better? What about cutting down the trees and ruining the ecosystem.

Is building cities in the swamps better? What about ruining the wetlands.


You sound like you just don't like any human development, or don't really think/know before saying anything..
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Old Posted Apr 13, 2009, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottk View Post
Nope. Not really.

Phoenix does get it's water from several sources, but The Colorado is the main source.

From the EPA water-sense website -

"The city of Phoenix ’s water supply comes primarily from the Central Arizona Project (CAP) which transports Colorado River water, and the Salt River Project (SRP). A small amount of Phoenix ’ supply comes from wells, or groundwater. The largest renewable supply source is the Colorado River. Arizona is apportioned 2.8 million acre-feet annually of Colorado River water."

P.S.

A city of 4 million people in the desert makes no sense. Especially when you consider that arizona has almost 300 golf courses in the state. Denver has water restrictions, it is ludicrous that phoenix does not.

End of story.

Posts like this one are the reason this thread will be closed.

The state of Arizona is entitled to 2.8 million acre-feet of Colorado River water, but consumes only 1.7 million. And of that amount, only half of that goes to the cities. The other half goes to the Indian communities for irrigation or for water banking.

As for greater Phoenix, water from the Colorado river is only the 3rd-largest source. Our largest water source is surface water from the Salt and Verde river watersheds. Our 2nd largest source is groundwater.

Also keep in mind that most of our outdoor landscaping (golf courses, lakes, fountains, etc) is done with retreated and reclaimed water, not virgin water. We've been doing this for years, unlike other desert cities (cough...vegas...cough).

And for all of you front-range residents, is it our fault that you settled on the wrong side of the continental divide?

Put some cities in the Colorado river watershed first, then we can talk.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2009, 12:01 AM
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Because the water purification process produces trillions of cubic meters of gaseous carbon dioxide emissions. Not just from the electricity used by the plant to purify the water, but also the greenhouse gases produced by the industrial processes to produced the chemicals used in the water. Furthermore, more direct environmental issues arise, such as the fact that the Colorado River rarely ever reaches the Gulf of Mexico now (mainly because of Phoenix), resulting in disappearing native fish populations and a salinity increase in the upper Gulf of Mexico basin.
If its the energy used you worried about we just need to have alternative energy sources, that should be done anyway.

The key to solve the water crises is to develop a cheaper way to take the salt out of the sea water. Then all your costal cities could use ocean water thus leaving more water for inland states. One way to do that is to develop a cheap energy source, possibly fusion. I have heard we are less then 50 years away from that so once they develop it then we should never have to worry about water again.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2009, 12:02 AM
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Why dwell on some obvious ignorant comment about half the country residing in desert? Just ignore that stuff and stay on topic please.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2009, 12:03 AM
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Maybe you Coloradoians should have voted different people into power, people that put water issues in the forefront and were better at negotiating water rights/entitlements.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2009, 12:05 AM
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If its the energy used you worried about we just need to have alternative energy sources, that should be done anyway.

The key to solve the water crises is to develop a cheaper way to take the salt out of the sea water. Then all your costal cities could use ocean water thus leaving more water for inland states. One way to do that is to develop a cheap energy source, possibly fusion. I have heard we are less then 50 years away from that so once they develop it then we should never have to worry about water again.
Actually, that's already been done. U.A.E. is building a couple of the new, efficient water desalination plants as we speak. Los Angeles has also funded a plan to build one of these new water desalination plants. It's all based on a new gear-like pump design which pumps water throughout the plant using ~1/3rd the electricity as the previous generation of water desalination plants. You should be able to find detailed information in an archival search of Popular Science Magazine.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2009, 12:08 AM
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Posts like this one are the reason this thread will be closed.

The state of Arizona is entitled to 2.8 million acre-feet of Colorado River water, but consumes only 1.7 million. And of that amount, only half of that goes to the cities. The other half goes to the Indian communities for irrigation or for water banking.

As for greater Phoenix, water from the Colorado river is only the 3rd-largest source. Our largest water source is surface water from the Salt and Verde river watersheds. Our 2nd largest source is groundwater.

Also keep in mind that most of our outdoor landscaping (golf courses, lakes, fountains, etc) is done with retreated and reclaimed water, not virgin water. We've been doing this for years, unlike other desert cities (cough...vegas...cough).

And for all of you front-range residents, is it our fault that you settled on the wrong side of the continental divide?
Pueblo is on the Front Range and we have enough water for a city of 500,000 people and buying more now, the Bessemer ditch, that should give us enough for a city close to 750,000 people.

In fact only once in my life has Pueblo had restrictions for about a month. We were told in February to start watering our lawns and in the summer we can water as much as we want, no limits.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2009, 12:08 AM
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Maybe you Coloradoians should have voted different people into power, people that put water issues in the forefront and were better at negotiating water rights/entitlements.
I don't doubt that one bit. It seems like everywhere in this country, the only politicians running for office are bad choices--no matter which major party they come from. The few good politicians seem to be Independent from influences of either major party. sadly, few of them have enough funds to run for office, since their rivals receive billions from lobbyists pushing corporate special interests, including anonymous funds from foreign companies such as some in China.
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