Which of these cities has the most firsthand/direct connection to Europe/Europeans?

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Does Montreal really have more cafes and terraces than Toronto though? If it does, it's certainly not an appreciable amount. Not that cafes and terraces are a particularly "European" thing either mind you, nice as they are.

Montreal "feels European" because it has more recent western European expats than probably anywhere else in North America, and because more of the media & cultural reference is from Europe & the Francophonie. Not becuase of any way that the city itself is built.

When was the last time you came in Montreal during summer ? I'm genuinely asking because the city adopted a new zoning regulation in the past years that allows restaurants, bars and cafés to have a terrace on the street itself in the space usually devoted to parkings. Since then, every second restaurant, bar of café in the city has a terrace. We're talking literally hundreds upon hundreds of terraces on every commercial street. I have been to Toronto many times during summer and there is simply no comparaison.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

When was the last time you came in Montreal during summer ? I'm genuinely asking because the city adopted a new zoning regulation in the past years that allows restaurants, bars and cafés to have a terrace on the street itself in the space usually devoted to parkings. Since then, every second restaurant, bar of café in the city has a terrace. We're talking literally hundreds upon hundreds of terraces on every commercial street. I have been to Toronto many times during summer and there is simply no comparaison.

Summer of 2016. I've been to Montreal several other times in the summer, and it never struck me as being noticeably more "patioed" relative to Toronto. Perhaps that's changed with the new by-laws, and Montreal could very well have more patios, but we're still talking degrees of separation rather than polar opposites here.

Here's the Toronto patio guide. Not everything is on here (and it seems to be just limited to bars & restaurants, no cafes), but you get the idea. They're not exactly a rarity here either.


http://patios.blogto.com/

[samne]

Was in Montreal last summer. I couldn't notice a substantially greater Patio/Terrace culture to be honest.

Again. People are only associating with their ideal sense of Europe. How about all the commie blocks in Toronto...more Eastern Bloc-like than any other city in NA.

[tdawg]

I'm always amazed by not just how many European visitors we get here in New York but by the crazy number of Europeans who reside here. I live in Astoria and it's just a common thing that most of my neighbors spend roughly half of the year here and the other half in Greece.

[Capsule F]

Stopping by to see why this was such a popular thread, still don't understand why. Can only be subjective, case closed.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

Stopping by to see why this was such a popular thread, still don't understand why. Can only be subjective, case closed.

To each their own. I can't really be bothered to look through 2200 posts on the Amazon HQ or the 35,000,000 posts on city murder rates.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by samne

Again. People are only associating with their ideal sense of Europe. How about all the commie blocks in Toronto...more Eastern Bloc-like than any other city in NA.

New York City has a lot of those apartment types too, in its public housing.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Aren't we all forgetting a very important fact:

FUCK EUROPE!



I mean, Europe is cool and all, but this North American obsession with being perceived as "european" is so fucking dumb.



Get confident, stupid!

Be who you are.

Fact is the harder you'll 'fuck' anybody, the less proud of yourself you'll be. Cause you must still be given some consciousness of some sort, and it would torture your prick.

That being said, I hear being 'fucked' - you know, just like getting laid - is actually something pleasant. So I assume 'screw Europe' would be more relevant, given what you're trying to say.
Excuse me for being strict about semantics, but words are actually most important.

Let's be serious anyway, you just can't screw us. We've been too experienced already.

[Capsicum]

I was just browsing through the list of most populous countries/continents in the decades past, and what really struck me was how the peak years of European immigration to the US (the 1900s) corresponded almost to the peak period of Europe's share of the world's population.

Europe's relative share of the world's population was 28% in the early 1900s -- between a quarter and third of the world's population, compared to being about a fifth of the world's population in the 1600s and 1700s, and about 13% or an eighth of the world's population today.

Also, the list of the world's ten most populated countries in 1900 when the immigration processing at Ellis Island was in full swing were: Qing China, Indian Empire (controlled by the UK), Russian Empire, US, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Dutch East Indies, Empire of Japan, UK, France.

Lots of European countries among the top 10 largest populations (of course many Asian and African countries were colonies then, and immigration bans prevented pretty much all of Asia from immigrating then) back in those days. So, it was kind of foreseen that with decolonization, with Europe developing, that eventually we'd not see a European emigration wave like the one that passed through Ellis Island much longer after the later 20th century drew to a close.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Europe's relative share of the world's population was 28% in the early 1900s -- between a quarter and third of the world's population, compared to being about a fifth of the world's population in the 1600s and 1700s, and about 13% or an eighth of the world's population today.

Europe was super-overcrowded, everyone was having tons of kids, and the first sons received all property/wealth. Not surprisingly, the younger sons often left for new areas, whether Germans heading to Crimea, Italians heading to Sao Paulo, etc.

I would be highly skeptical of old population estimates, though. They can't even get the U.S. Census remotely correct; how do you expect estimates of populations 500 years ago to carry much authority?

[RST500]

European immigration has declined but it is hard to predict future trends. The combination of the migrant crisis in Europe, rise in terrorism, and higher taxes and the proposed merit based immigration could lead to an increase in immigration from Europe.

[PFloyd]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Summer of 2016. I've been to Montreal several other times in the summer, and it never struck me as being noticeably more "patioed" relative to Toronto. Perhaps that's changed with the new by-laws, and Montreal could very well have more patios, but we're still talking degrees of separation rather than polar opposites here.

Here's the Toronto patio guide. Not everything is on here (and it seems to be just limited to bars & restaurants, no cafes), but you get the idea. They're not exactly a rarity here either.


http://patios.blogto.com/

Holy cow, I was going through the endless pictures of patios in Toronto from that blogTO link. Along with Montreal, two of the most vibrant patio scenes in North America for sure!

[niwell]

Visually there's a bit of a difference as many of Toronto's patios are in the back of bars / restaurants. Montreal certainly has more with a street presence and has the temporary street parking patios (which are unfortunately hard to do given the layout of main streets here). There are pros and cons to both types, of course. Sometimes it's nice to people watch instead of being in a more secluded area, but I also got pretty annoyed when being harassed by a crust punk on St-Denis last spring!

[RST500]

Anyway, here is a look at the diaspora of European Immigrants in the Bay Area. I'll do other parts of the world and post them soon.

You never know where people live.

2005-2009 American Factfinder.

Born In England
San Francisco 1,951
San Jose 1,559
Oakland 688
San Rafael 376
Fremont 347
Santa Rosa 342
Palo Alto 333
Pleasanton 307
Walnut Creek 301
Novato 294
Berkeley 283
Santa Cruz 264
San Mateo 254
Santa Clara 244
Redwood City 239
Fairfield 236
Mountain View 221
Antioch 198
Mill Valley 196
Menlo Park 192
Moraga 192
Concord 190
Livermore 190
Sausalito 179
Belmont 178
Napa 170
Alameda 168
Danville 163
Benicia 162
Saratoga 161
Sunnyvale 157
Clayton 153
Petaluma 151
San Leandro 144
Pleasant Hill 135
Vallejo 135
Richmond 133
Cupertino 131
Castro Valley 124
Pacifica 124
Vacaville 119
Montara 117
Larkspur 116
Tiburon 111
Los Altos 106
San Carlos 105
Martinez 102
Los Gatos 100

Born in Scotland
San Jose 459
San Francisco 435
Mountain View 221
Vacaville 120

Born in France
San Francisco 2,932
San Jose 969
Palo Alto 819
Berkeley 550
Oakland 543
Mountain View 484
Sunnyvale 309
Los Gatos 273
Fremont 237
South San Francisco 220
Livermore 202
Los Altos 158
Redwood City 151
San Rafael 134
Santa Clara 129
Albany 123
Novato 114
San Carlos 111
Santa Cruz 104

Born in Germany
San Francisco 3,290
San Jose 2,155
Sunnyvale 761
Oakland 716
Mountain View 702
Berkeley 657
Palo Alto 560
Santa Rosa 528
San Mateo 518
Novato 466
San Rafael 450
Fremont 418
Walnut Creek 397
Redwood City 336
Santa Cruz 304
Hayward 283
Vacaville 268
Fairfield 264
Corte Madera 254
Santa Clara 249
San Ramon 235
Half Moon Bay 227
Larkspur 214
Castro Valley 213
Albany 211
Pleasant Hill 211
San Leandro 210
Foster City 207
Alameda 205
San Carlos 205
Daly City 202
Danville 196
Concord 184
Lafayette 177
Saratoga 174
El Cerrito 172
Menlo Park 170
Petaluma 170
Antioch 169
Pleasanton 169
Brentwood 166
San Anselmo 162
Los Altos 160
Napa 160
Pittsburg 159
Benicia 154
Milpitas 153
Vallejo 150
Calistoga 149
Tamalpais-Homestead 148
Livermore 146
Richmond 143
Burlingame 140
Pacifica 139
Dublin 136
Belmont 132
Los Gatos 122
Montara 117
Corte Madera 116
Morgan Hill 112
Sebastopol 110
Suisun City 107
Union City 106
San Bruno 104

Born in the Netherlands
San Jose 542
San Francisco 394
Walnut Creek 141
Los Altos 113
San Mateo 107
Oakland 105
Born in Switzerland
San Francisco 467
San Jose 198
Redwood City 155
Stanford 137
Mountain View 131
Oakland 124
Born in Greece
San Francisco 524
San Jose 265
Oakland 249
Belmont 124
San Mateo 122

Born in Italy
San Francisco 1,902
San Jose 810
San Mateo 445
Berkeley 281
Oakland 266
Concord 239
Cupertino 233
Santa Clara 218
South San Francisco 217
Redwood City 216
Sunnyale 149
Palo Alto 147
Millbrae 146
San Leandro 128
Tamalpais-Homestead 119
Mountain View 117
Daly City 111
Petaluma 108
Fremont 103
Walnut Creek 103

Born in Portugal
San Jose 3,468
San Leandro 925
Santa Clara 852
Newark 422
Fremont 395
San Francisco 298
Brentwood 262
Watsonville 197
Oakland 183
Hayward 178
Castro Valley 160
Petaluma 156
Dublin 155
Cherryland 146
Gilroy 145
San Lorenzo 128
Vallejo 119
Sunnyvale 102

Born in Spain
San Francisco 653
Alameda 534
Oakland 302
Berkeley 252
San Jose 237
Palo Alto 148
Stanford 117
Sunnyvale 117

Born in Poland
San Francisco 986
San Jose 688
Concord 264
San Mateo 242
Oakland 205
Sunnyvale 190
San Leandro 172
Berkeley 167
Walnut Creek 123
Redwood City 119
Emeryville 112
Hayward 112
Alameda 106
Menlo Park 101
Albany 100

Born in Russia
San Francisco 4,776
San Jose 2,482
Concord 764
Mountain View 760
Palo Alto 716
Sunnyvale 681
Fremont 648
Walnut Creek 556
Santa Clara 542
Oakland 443
Foster City 414
Berkeley 411
Cupertino 411
San Mateo 388
Campbell 343
San Bruno 334
Pleasanton 288
Daly City 284
Pleasant Hill 249
Novato 235
Los Gatos 234
Burlingame 230
Belmont 268
Redwood City 175
Castro Valley 173
Moraga 165
San Rafael 160
San Ramon 143
Danville 132
Livermore 121
Martinez 119
Saratoga 113
San Carlos 108
Morgan Hill 105

[RST500]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belden_Place

"Belden Place is a narrow alley in the Financial District of San Francisco, California that serves as the hub of the city's small French American community."


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveadal,_California

"Sveadal is a private unincorporated community located in Santa Clara County, California. The Swedish American cultural heritage and recreation center is situated west of Morgan Hill, California in the eastern Santa Cruz Mountains, adjacent to Uvas Canyon County Park. Since its founding in 1926, it has been owned and operated by the Swedish American Patriotic League, a congress of local organizations, dedicated to promoting and perpetuating common Swedish-American heritage in the San Francisco Bay Area. It has been visited by three generations of Swedish royalty, since 1927 when then Crown Prince (and later King) Gustav VI Adolf of Sweden and his wife dedicated Sveadal in 1927.[2]"

[RST500]

Source: US Census 2016 American Community Survey, 1 Year. Table B05006


United Kingdom
1. New York: 64,550 people
2. Los Angeles: 44,190
3. Boston: 19,866
4. Houston: 19,252
5. Washington DC: 18,682
6. Miami: 17,541
7. Chicago: 16,487
8. Seattle: 15,430
9. Atlanta: 15,262
10. Tampa: 14,610

Poland
1. Chicago: 131,410 people
2. New York: 105,941
3. Hartford, CT: 14,237
4. Detroit: 9757
5. Los Angeles: 9333
6. Miami: 8826
7. Philadelphia: 7749
8. Boston: 5786
9. Tampa: 4681
10. San Francisco: 4427

Germany
1. New York: 48,164 people
2. Los Angeles: 23,394
3. Chicago: 17,950
4. Washington DC: 16,674
5. San Francisco: 15,186
6. Miami: 12,543
7. Seattle: 11,880
8. Atlanta: 10,759
9. Philadelphia: 10,046
10. Detroit: 9921

Russia
1. New York: 84,987 people
2. Los Angeles: 25,308
3. Chicago: 16,983
4. Boston: 16,169
5. San Francisco: 14,510
6. Washington DC: 11,704
7. Seattle: 11,686
8. Miami: 9992
9. Philadelphia: 9902
10. Portland: 9615

Ukraine
1. New York: 89,222 people
2. Chicago: 21,609
3. Portland: 19,239
4. Seattle: 18,748
5. Los Angeles: 17,035
6. Philadelphia: 16,990
7. Sacramento: 15,618
8. Boston: 8496
9. Miami: 8413
10. San Francisco: 7883

Italy
1. New York: 113,791 people
2. Chicago: 18,510
3. Boston: 17,025
4. Miami: 14,440
5. Philadelphia: 11,875
6. Los Angeles: 11,793
7. Detroit: 8112
8. Hartford, CT: 6630
9. San Francisco: 6167
10. Washington DC: 4570


France
1. New York: 28,412 people
2. Los Angeles: 12,383
3. San Francisco: 10,768
4. Miami: 9276
5. Washington DC: 7324
6. Boston: 6525
7. San Jose: 4798
8. Chicago: 4763
9. Houston: 4546
10. Dallas: 3485

Romania
1. New York: 23,263 people
2. Chicago: 16,764
3. Los Angeles: 9345
4. Detroit: 6957
5. Miami: 6093
6. Cleveland: 5695
7. Phoenix: 5384
8. Atlanta: 4989
9. Portland: 4095
10. Seattle: 4061

Greece
1. New York: 34,306 people
2. Chicago: 16,046
3. Boston: 6603
4. Los Angeles: 5132
5. Philadelphia: 4162
6. Tampa: 3583
7. Washington DC: 3417
8. Miami: 3201
9. San Francisco: 3006
10. Houston: 2454

Portugal
1. Providence: 52,014 people
2. Boston: 14,898
3. San Francisco: 4257
4. New York: 4186
5. San Jose: 3817
6. Hartford, CT: 2656
7. Los Angeles: 2467
8. Washington DC: 2237
9. Miami: 2125
10. Philadelphia: 2044

Ireland
1. New York: 33,451 people
2. Boston: 13,140
3. Chicago: 7706
4. San Francisco: 7544
5. Los Angeles: 4464
6. Philadelphia: 3233
7. Washington DC: 2951
8. Orlando: 2538
9. Miami: 1843
10. Seattle: 1734

Spain
1. New York: 18,103 people
2. Miami: 13,483
3. Houston: 4712
4. Boston: 4580
5. Washington DC: 4230
6. Los Angeles: 3895
7. Chicago: 3098
8. Dallas: 2643
9. San Francisco: 2396
10. Philadelphia: 1803

Albania
1. New York: 25,347 people
2. Detroit: 10,675
3. Boston: 6787
4. Philadelphia: 6649
5. Chicago: 4013
6. Tampa: 2978
7. Cleveland: 1938
8. Miami: 1919
9. Hartford, CT: 1330
10. Atlanta: 1184

Bosnia and Herzegovina
1. St. Louis: 10,817 people
2. Chicago: 7347
3. New York: 3897
4. Atlanta: 3537
5. Detroit: 2826
6. Minneapolis: 2823
7. Dallas: 2771
8. Tampa: 2765
9. Phoenix: 2680
10. San Francisco: 2093

Bulgaria
1. Chicago: 12,125 people
2. New York: 6599
3. Los Angeles: 4426
4. Miami: 2547
5. Boston: 2492
6. Atlanta: 2453
7. Las Vegas: 2180
8. Phoenix: 2101
9. Washington DC: 1759
10. San Francisco: 1665

Belarus
1. New York: 17,167 people
2. Chicago: 5829
3. Los Angeles: 3459
4. San Francisco: 3361
5. Boston: 2101
6. Seattle: 1690
7. Denver: 1553
8. Minneapolis: 1518
9. Philadelphia: 1434
10. Sacramento: 1401

Czech Republic+Slovakia
1. New York: 11,126 people
2. Chicago: 4350
3. Los Angeles: 3911
4. Tampa: 2616
5. San Francisco: 2132
6. Washington DC: 1719
7. Detroit: 1453
8. Boston: 1443
9. Philadelphia: 1422
10. Cleveland: 1250

Hungary
1. New York: 11,704 people
2. Los Angeles: 5191
3. Miami: 3639
4. Chicago: 1933
5. Washington DC: 1772
6. Cleveland: 1746
7. Phoenix: 1350
8. Philadelphia: 1276
9. Riverside, CA: 1256
10. San Diego: 1228

Netherlands
1. New York: 5694 people
2. Los Angeles: 4450
3. San Francisco: 3337
4. Boston: 2568
5. Riverside, CA: 2162
6. Portland: 2100
7. Atlanta: 2053
8. Chicago: 2043
9. Washington DC: 2026
10. Houston: 1868

Moldova
1. New York: 7146 people
2. Chicago: 4087
3. Sacramento: 4014
4. Seattle: 3760
5. Minneapolis: 2550
6. Portland: 1256
7. Los Angeles: 1246
8. Orlando: 1208
9. Baltimore: 1158
10. Philadelphia: 1125

Sweden
1. New York: 5952 people
2. Los Angeles: 3794
3. San Francisco: 2972
4. San Diego: 1980
5. Miami: 1765
6. San Jose: 1655
7. Chicago: 1274
8. Atlanta: 1185
9. Seattle: 1158
10. Dallas: 1115

Austria
1. New York: 7624 people
2. Los Angeles: 2965
3. Chicago: 2380
4. Washington DC: 1814
5. Miami: 1451
6. San Francisco: 1256
7. Boston: 1224
8. Las Vegas: 1000
9. Philadelphia: 926
10. Riverside, CA: 870

Serbia
1. Chicago: 6793 people
2. New York: 5800
3. Las Vegas: 1922
4. Miami: 1842
5. Detroit: 1409
6. Los Angeles: 1266
7. Boston: 1102
8. Tampa: 926
9. San Diego: 881
10. Minneapolis: 817

Croatia
1. New York: 7829 people
2. Chicago: 4567
3. Los Angeles: 3398
4. Cleveland: 2188
5. San Diego: 858
6. Dallas: 847
7. Philadelphia: 824
8. Phoenix: 736
9. San Jose: 700
10. Boston: 661

Lithuania
1. Chicago: 10,803 people
2. New York: 4227
3. Los Angeles: 3298
4. Boston: 1227
5. Philadelphia: 945
6. Detroit: 800
7. Washington DC: 536
8. Houston: 499
9. Cleveland: 483
10. Providence: 467

Switzerland
1. New York: 5536 people
2. Los Angeles: 3362
3. San Francisco: 2551
4. Boston: 1286
5. Philadelphia: 986
6. Miami: 906
7. San Jose: 906
8. Chicago: 850
9. Washington DC: 844
10. San Diego: 816

Belgium
1. New York: 6377 people
2. Los Angeles: 2606
3. Washington DC: 1569
4. San Francisco: 1411
5. San Jose: 1201
6. Boston: 1184
7. Miami: 906
8. Chicago: 878
9. Atlanta: 869
10. Houston: 846

Macedonia
1. New York: 8452 people
2. Detroit: 4060
3. Chicago: 3529
4. Columbus: 1110
5. Miami: 880
6. Los Angeles: 680
7. Washington DC: 368
8. Las Vegas: 351
9. Phoenix: 307
10. Dallas: 222

Denmark
1. New York: 2836 people
2. Atlanta: 2497
3. San Francisco: 2222
4. Los Angeles: 1711
5. San Jose: 1225
6. Chicago: 953
7. Miami: 921
8. Dallas: 778
9. Phoenix: 740
10. Seattle: 597

Latvia
1. New York: 4609 people
2. Chicago: 1520
3. Los Angeles: 1207
4. Washington DC: 978
5. Boston: 889
6. Sacramento: 886
7. San Francisco: 832
8. Seattle: 824
9. Philadelphia: 805
10. Minneapolis: 643

Norway
1. New York: 1981 people
2. Seattle: 1432
3. Los Angeles: 1283
4. San Francisco: 905
5. Phoenix: 873
6. San Jose: 674
7. Austin: 599
8. Philadelphia: 546
9. Chicago: 438
10. San Diego: 437

[JManc]

Originally Posted by RST500

Source: US Census 2016 American Community Survey, 1 Year. Table B05006


Bosnia and Herzegovina
1. St. Louis: 10,817 people
2. Chicago: 7347
3. New York: 3897
4. Atlanta: 3537
5. Detroit: 2826
6. Minneapolis: 2823
7. Dallas: 2771
8. Tampa: 2765
9. Phoenix: 2680
10. San Francisco: 2093

No Utica?? A huge chunk of the city population is Bosnian. Should be some where around NYC's or ATL's population at least.

[Tom In Chicago]

Chicago has quite the share of the Eastern Bloc emigre population. . .

. . .

[Docere]

NYC dwarfs the other major Italian American centers in terms of number of Italian immigrants, and Chicago dwarfs the other major Polish American centers (many of which don't even appear on the list) in terms of Polish immigrants.

There's no particular attraction of the Midwest of German immigrants or the small number of Scandinavian immigrants.

And yeah, the Eastern Bloc presence in Chicago is notable.

[Docere]

Where do European immigrants in Detroit live? Hamtramck?