Cycling in Ottawa

[waterloowarrior]

Terrible crash yesterday at Riverside and Bank. From some of the witnesses commenting on the Sun it sounds like it happened when the truck turned right on a red near the MUP (if the accounts are correct these turns are not permitted at this intersection). We don't know the exact circumstances but it's worth pointing out that the design of this intersection actually requires technically illegal behaviour from cyclist. The curve on the street is quite auto-oriented as well.

http://goo.gl/maps/wxpAQ

http://goo.gl/maps/iDlJB

[waterloowarrior]

Here is how Toronto treats two-way MUPs crossing signalized intersections. Separate from pedestrians, signalized etc.

http://goo.gl/maps/kDriE
http://goo.gl/maps/oP7VA

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Terrible crash yesterday at Riverside and Bank. From some of the witnesses commenting on the Sun it sounds like it happened when the truck turned right on a red near the MUP (if the accounts are correct these turns are not permitted at this intersection). We don't know the exact circumstances but it's worth pointing out that the design of this intersection actually requires technically illegal behaviour from cyclist. The curve on the street is quite auto-oriented as well.

What is the technically illegal behaviour you speak of?

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Buggys

What is the technically illegal behaviour you speak of?

Riding in a crosswalk.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Buggys

What is the technically illegal behaviour you speak of?

It's a fully legal turn. However, the space is very tight and dangerous.

The intersection should be rebuilt IMO and the 2-way couplet removed with all turns at the southern leg (used by eastbound traffic) which would need to be somewhat widened.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Riding in a crosswalk.

It's practically unenforced and it can easily be legalized.

Gatineau has done so for some crosswalks that connect with MUPs.
https://maps.google.ca/?ll=45.432491...208.38,,0,0.46

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

It's practically unenforced and it can easily be legalized.

Gatineau has done so for some crosswalks that connect with MUPs.
https://maps.google.ca/?ll=45.432491...208.38,,0,0.46

Looks to me like that bike sign wants me to ride on the 6" wide bit of pavement. Are they crazy? Sorry, not everyone is Nick Wallenda. I would never want to risk falling in front of a vehicle trying to balance on a narrow curb like that. I would rather take up the whole right lane (so I won't get side-swiped by a vehicle trying to "share" a narrow lane) or just ride on the wide part of the pavement.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Looks to me like that bike sign wants me to ride on the 6" wide bit of pavement. Are they crazy? Sorry, not everyone is Nick Wallenda. I would never want to risk falling in front of a vehicle trying to balance on a narrow curb like that. I would rather take up the whole right lane (so I won't get side-swiped by a vehicle trying to "share" a narrow lane) or just ride on the wide part of the pavement.

What the...

The signage, accompanying flashing lights, and painted markings on the road, are to indicate to traffic to yeild to pedestrians & bikes that are crossing the road.

I have no idea how you saw that as being told to ride on a 6 inch wide curb...

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

What the...

The signage, accompanying flashing lights, and painted markings on the road, are to indicate to traffic to yeild to pedestrians & bikes that are crossing the road.

I have no idea how you saw that as being told to ride on a 6 inch wide curb...

Ok, I get the message to motorists to be careful.

I'm not clear what the signs want cyclists to do?
(The words under the yield sign are too small to see from Google Maps.)
There are no bike lanes in the roundabout or the roads leading to the roundabout.
The lanes are too narrow for a non-expert biker like me to comfortably ride while sharing with a car.
If that person + bike sign wants cyclists to dismount, it should look more like this: http://wosu.org/2012/news/2013/04/18...rians-allowed/
Although, if the intersection is very busy, I'll probably dismount anyways, for my own safety.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Ok, I get the message to motorists to be careful.

I'm not clear what the signs want cyclists to do?
(The words under the yield sign are too small to see from Google Maps.)
There are no bike lanes in the roundabout or the roads leading to the roundabout.
The lanes are too narrow for a non-expert biker like me to comfortably ride while sharing with a car.
If that person + bike sign wants cyclists to dismount, it should look more like this: http://wosu.org/2012/news/2013/04/18...rians-allowed/
Although, if the intersection is very busy, I'll probably dismount anyways, for my own safety.

There's a MUP running parallel to Allumetiere and it crosses St-Joseph at that point. Cyclists are allowed to ride in that crosswalk to cross St-Joseph. The path is coblestone around the intersection so it's a bit unclear on Google maps if one hasn't ridden there before.

If you're riding on St-Joseph you have to take the lane if you're going to go through the traffic circle. The cyclists (just like the rest of traffic) are to yield to the peds & bikes in the crosswalk first (flashing lights) and then yield to the cars already in the traffic circle (the yield sign). (Or what most cyclists do is use the other crosswalks around the traffic circle.)

[Dado]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Terrible crash yesterday at Riverside and Bank. From some of the witnesses commenting on the Sun it sounds like it happened when the truck turned right on a red near the MUP (if the accounts are correct these turns are not permitted at this intersection). We don't know the exact circumstances but it's worth pointing out that the design of this intersection actually requires technically illegal behaviour from cyclist. The curve on the street is quite auto-oriented as well.

http://goo.gl/maps/wxpAQ

http://goo.gl/maps/iDlJB

Originally Posted by Buggys

What is the technically illegal behaviour you speak of?

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Riding in a crosswalk.

That's for cyclists travelling on the path who are crossing Bank, but the victim in this incident was travelling south on Bank (which you may not have known at the time of writing) in which it is possible to ride legally.

It kind of seems unlikely that the collision was due to a right turn on red since under those circumstances the cyclist would have had no reason to enter the intersection, unless she was crushed right at the stop line somehow.

This is almost certainly a case of someone passing improperly, but who was passing whom remains to be determined.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Terrible crash yesterday at Riverside and Bank. From some of the witnesses commenting on the Sun it sounds like it happened when the truck turned right on a red near the MUP (if the accounts are correct these turns are not permitted at this intersection). We don't know the exact circumstances but it's worth pointing out that the design of this intersection actually requires technically illegal behaviour from cyclist. The curve on the street is quite auto-oriented as well.

http://goo.gl/maps/iDlJB

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ot...969/story.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...riverside.html

So the reports say that:
* the truck was going South on Bank and turning Right onto Riverside
* the cyclist was going South on Bank
And it looks like:
* her broken bike is in the middle of the road
* there's no right turn permitted on a red light

I would guess that both truck and cyclist were side-by-side on the road at the intersection while the light was red. Then, as soon as the light turned green, both of them started doing their thing.... The cyclist probably started moving earlier, going parallel to any pedestrians walking South on Bank when the light is green. The truck probably started moving slightly later, as heavy trucks accelerate a tad slower than a typical car (or human). The truck driver probably made too wide a turn or simply not looked out the right window to check for potential cyclists (or joggers and walkers).

If the problem is because the driver didn't look towards the right before turning, then a wider bike lane ain't gonna solve it all by itself (although it'll help with other things). There needs to be something like an advanced light for non-motorized vehicles, like what was suggested in one of the news articles.

[Buggys]

Seriously, the lanes on the Bank bridge here are quite narrow. The wide green berms should be between the cars and bikes, not squeezing cyclists with the cars.

Rather than waiting 5 years for an improvement, perhaps that little white man button can be re-programmed to give cyclists & pedestrians an early walk signal on-demand. Also, one of those green railing / green berm pathways can be turned into a bikepath with a yellow line, and the other side left for pedestrians.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Buggys

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ot...969/story.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...riverside.html

So the reports say that:
* the truck was going South on Bank and turning Right onto Riverside
* the cyclist was going South on Bank
And it looks like:
* her broken bike is in the middle of the road
* there's no right turn permitted on a red light

In the pictures, her bike is on the sidewalk next to the traffic light support in the northwest quadrant of the intersection, as seen in WW's first link (the Citizen photo of her bike was taken from Bank):

http://goo.gl/maps/wxpAQ

The concrete truck is parked in the left lane of Riverside, off to the right of the frame in the above link alongside that segment of new sidewalk (the rear of the truck is roughly in line with the joint between the middle segment and the westernmost segment of new sidewalk), but of course we don't know how far he drove before stopping.

I would guess that both truck and cyclist were side-by-side on the road at the intersection while the light was red. Then, as soon as the light turned green, both of them started doing their thing.... The cyclist probably started moving earlier, going parallel to any pedestrians walking South on Bank when the light is green. The truck probably started moving slightly later, as heavy trucks accelerate a tad slower than a typical car (or human). The truck driver probably made too wide a turn or simply not looked out the right window to check for potential cyclists (or joggers and walkers).

Looking at the size of that truck and having seen plenty of them up close (I live in Westboro, so the place is full of them), it would have had to take that turn wide (which might explain why the truck is parked in the left lane of Riverside). If so, he would likely have gone "straight" for a distance before starting the turn into the left lane of Riverside.

Perhaps that was a factor.

If the problem is because the driver didn't look towards the right before turning, then a wider bike lane ain't gonna solve it all by itself (although it'll help with other things). There needs to be something like an advanced light for non-motorized vehicles, like what was suggested in one of the news articles.

[Buggys]

...Sorry, I meant to say it looks like the bike was in the middle of the road when they crashed.

I can't remember which news article I read it in now, but reporters said paramedics had moved the bike onto the pavement while they tried to save the woman in vain. Waterloo warrior's Sun article has pictures that show the bike's debris on the road.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/07/30/...truck-by-truck

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Buggys

...Sorry, I meant to say it looks like the bike was in the middle of the road when they crashed.

I can't remember which news article I read it in now, but reporters said paramedics had moved the bike onto the pavement while they tried to save the woman in vain. Waterloo warrior's Sun article has pictures that show the bike's debris on the road.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/07/30/...truck-by-truck

Thanks for that link. I hadn't seen those pictures before.

It's possible this may have been a right hook collision. We'll have to wait for the results of the investigation to know for sure.

[waterloowarrior]

interesting item buried in this staff report. The North-South arterial in Fernbank will now have a raised cycle track. Great to see on a greenfield road. http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/view....s&fileid=77370

[waterloowarrior]

has anyone gone by the East-West Bikeway route recently? There are several sections planned for construction this year.
http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public...nue-st-laurent

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

has anyone gone by the East-West Bikeway route recently? There are several sections planned for construction this year.
http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public...nue-st-laurent

I noticed there are new posts to segregate the bike lane WB over the canal on Laurier bridge.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

has anyone gone by the East-West Bikeway route recently? There are several sections planned for construction this year.
http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public...nue-st-laurent

Stewart & Wilbrod are also being worked on. Lots of construction along the bike lane.