Future Canadian Skylines

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by whiteford

the last picture looks great cal. funny how the one tower, even though it appears to be taller than FCP, which would make it a supertall, still it is greatly dwarfed by the CN tower.

That's why I'm waiting to see what happens in Yorkville. No matter what happens in the core / southcore, nothing is gonna match the size of CN Tower, it will always be the dominant building on the skyline from this view. A supertall in Yorkville is a chance to create a new iconic skyline view for the world. - Something like Absolute World in Mississauga, but twice as tall.

330 Meters, perhaps?

[steveve]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

by me

that actually looks pretty good!... of course we don't want pure boxes, but the massing on the skyline is decent,
but when we get closer to the city (not by the islands), these towers will be way too dominant,

[caltrane74]

Well the ICE tower to the left of 120 Harbour will not be a box, as I've depicted it in that render.

L tower will be visible too, and I didn't include it in the render.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

So you like Cityplace then? right? - I'm sure you're not being overly dramatic, anyways, just want to see your opinion on that project, which everyone seems to hate.

From a plannings perspective, its crap, its to isolated and will struggle long term - from a design stand point... well their are some good towers in the mix. The developers are trying to add some edge. I think Cityplace's problems are mostly on the street level with its inability to generate any meaningful street action. The towers for the most part are fine.

The past GridTO article got a lot of people talking about it. It made me realize why was there no long term to place transit into the mix of the development.

[Travis007]

I totally agree. Cityplace's biggest fail is the inconsistent attempt at creating an interesting pedestrian presence at ground level. The podiums for the most part are poorly planned, with patchy retail and lacking in human scale context. It doesn't necessarily need to become a destination, but for the large resident population in the complex it should be enough to sustain a viable and moderately engaging retail strip. Everyone finds the towers to be getting repetitive and bland but I think it's due to the fact that the developer wants to fit so many towers into the developments. IMO, If the towers were rated individually, I think the architecture is decent/tolerable.

[logan5]

Probably been said before, but the success of the waterfront area will likely be incumbent upon the relocation of the Gardiner Expressway and Union Station to below grade. That's probably obvious, I wonder what the cost would be?

[Innsertnamehere]

^ somewhere above 5 billion.. (for both)i think the rail lines should be covered and a park placed on top, eliminating that barrier, and to have lakeshore blvrd reduced to 2 lanes and to introduce some retail underneath it. this would allow for a nice place to go during a rainy day, as long as the underside of the Gardiner was spruced up. (lights, possibly public art on the underside). this could fix the problem at somewhere around 1-2 billion. (overestimate?)

[vegeta_skyline]

Originally Posted by logan5

Probably been said before, but the success of the waterfront area will likely be incumbent upon the relocation of the Gardiner Expressway and Union Station to below grade. That's probably obvious, I wonder what the cost would be?

I disagree that the success of the waterfront depends on that.
But if that's what your basing the success of the waterfront on, your going to have to wait a long time.

The Gardiner will probably come down in a decade or two when they can no long rehabilitate it. But the railways will stay long after that. GO transit is a vital transportation link absent of which the economy of Toronto would greatly suffer. To say nothing of VIA, which plays a lesser but not insignificant roll. Obviously I know your not suggesting to eliminate passenger rail service. But burying all the rail lines and associated tracks that lead into Union station would greatly reduce the capacity of the system for years on end at a time when its growing by almost 10% per year. That's a non-starter, never mind the fact that they're spending somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.2 billion dollars and a decade of construction to modify & rehabilitate the station and refurbish & upgrade the tracks leading to it. see;
http://top100projects.ca/2010/union-...italization-2/
http://top100projects.ca/2010/union-...ation-project/
http://top100projects.ca/2010/union-...lling-program/

Obviously they're not going to just tear it all down so soon after they've just spent that kind of money on it.

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

^ somewhere above 5 billion.. (for both)

That's a large underestimate. The costs burying all the lines and the station itself below the street level would probably make Boston's big dig look cheap by comparison.

Consider the West Toronto diamond project(the most expensive rail burying project in Canada today), which was estimated to cost 277 million dollars just to grade separate a 4 track mainline from another 2 track mainline and one road crossing. Other than 2 new bridges none of it is covered.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/re...h018e-2375.htm



The total length of both approaches are approximately 1 km long and 2 separate overhead bridges will be built. A total of only 0.3km will actually be below grade. The project starting in Jan 2009 and was scheduled to be completed at the end of 2011 but the completion date has now been pushed back until 2014.
http://top100projects.ca/2010/west-t...ion-project-2/

So, what would it cost to bury a corridor 8 to 14 tracks wide, 3.5 km's of which would have to be below grade and bridged over + and additional 1/2 km approach on either side in 2020 dollars? Oh and lets not forget having to rebuild the largest rail station in the country entirely underground, while keeping it in service the entire time?

To get a better idea of the difference between the two heres a comparison of their sizes;

West Toronto;


Union Station Rail Corridor;


The images are in the same scale. Yellow is the approach sections. Red is the portion that is entirely below grade and Green is Union station.

The project would be several orders of magnitude greater than the WT project. Compared to Bostons big dig the USRC project would be 4.5km long vs 5.6km, however the USRC is wider and would include a massive passenger rail station. The big dig cost 14.6 billion although new estimates peg the actual cost at 22 billion. Not counting for inflation, that would be a good starting point

In other words, not that I want to shot down anyone's hopes but realistically, its just not going to happen.
At least not in our lifetimes.

[caltrane74]

I don't see the big deal with waterfront access right at the central core. We have some of the nicest beaches around just west and east of Union Station.

[Chadillaccc]

There's basically no point in burying the station/tracks. I love the station, in fact to me it is one of Toronto's masterpieces.

and yeah, I get that the tracks separate the city from the water, but there are a couple ways around that that would be much more financially viable I'm sure.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by vegeta_skyline

That's a non-starter, never mind the fact that they're spending somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.2 billion dollars and a decade of construction to modify & rehabilitate the station and refurbish & upgrade the tracks leading to it.

I hadn't realized they had that kind of money committed to what's already there. Maybe it will work there if you throw tons of density at the area, but besides the tracks and expressway, there is also the blight of the stadium and arena to overcome.

Maybe sometime in the distant future (30 years?) demand might warrant a World Trade Centre type complex that would sit on top of the most important transit hub in the city.

[osmo]

The tracks aren't an issue. You can easily build on top of them if needed, and I assume eventually developers will cry for a piece of the action and Metrolinks will gladly sell off the air rights (I assume the Province owns those tracks?).

The Gardiner is another story. I do also believe it will eventually be torn up and burried when the bill comes for large scale maintenance.

[lake of the nations]

Montreal 2020.

By sherbrooke at 2011-11-25

[Rico Rommheim]

Hahaha Its funny because its true.

[craner]

[Vaillant]

Originally Posted by lake of the nations

Montreal 2020.

By sherbrooke at 2011-11-25

that is McGill University Health centre with shriners hospital in the middle!

[jmt18325]

I must be missing something....

[Chadillaccc]

boooooooo

[Log1988]

Downtown Vancouver. Added Shangri-La, Georgia, Jameson House, and 1021 West Hastings. If I can find suitable renderings of the Turn and 475 Howe, I'll add them as well.

Photo taken by Bobanny, 2007.
Modified by me.

[PoscStudent]

Jeddy1989 has used recent Land Use Assessment Report's and added all the new proposals into one of the view plane analysis's. It's not great but it gives an idea of how the skyline in St. John's may look in a few years.



You can't see 351 Water in this proposal, which is a shame.