Ford's attack on Toronto is good news

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't put much weight into the argument that he can't do this because it wasn't explicitly stated in his platform.

An election platform gives voters an idea of what a government would do if elected, but it's not a straitjacket.

They're elected to govern as they see fit, not to follow their platform and only that to the letter.

Ford may be guilty of sleight of hand and had this Toronto "chop" in mind all along, but he wouldn't be the first one.

Oh he absolutely can attempt to do it regardless of whether or not it was in his platform. I was more trying to point out that it's equally disingenuous to suggest that such a move aught to have been expected and taken for granted based on what was in said platform. Because, well, it wasn't. Even when looked at through a pretty wide lens.

Municipalities certainly are creatures of the province, but it's not necessarily as black and white as often represented. By precedent we have recognized them as "mature and responsible orders of government" in Ontario and have accordingly entrenched this in public policy. The carte blanche nature of provincial legislation in this respect can certainly be challenged, and has on many occasions.

Originally Posted by Acajack

BTW, isn't JT's backtracking on a major, highly publicized promise (electoral reform) a lot more serious?

Arguably yes, and to a much greater extent. However it does depend on how you prioritize government - I do believe that provincial and by extension municipal governments have a much greater impact on our day to day lives.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is a lot of anti-Ottawa City Council sentiment within Ottawa city limits, especially among older demographics in the vast rural parts of the municipality to the west and south of the urbanized and suburbanized zone.

It has been mentioned in the past that Ottawa has 23 councillors for 950,000 people, whereas Calgary has 14 or so for 100-200k more people.

How does reducing the size of Ottawa City Council help anybody living in a rural ward? If we reduce the council size say in half, the rural voice will be virtually eliminated. Do these people have a death wish for their own communities?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How does reducing the size of Ottawa City Council help anybody living in a rural ward? If we reduce the council size say in half, the rural voice will be virtually eliminated. Do these people have a death wish for their own communities?

Oh, I definitely agree, but don't you think that calls to chop Ottawa City Council are coming from the Bring Back Carleton County crowd?

(Hey, I never said these guys were smart!)

[TorontoDrew]

I love it when people think reducing the number of councilors will reduce the actual municipal government size by a huge chunk. Most of their staff will remain and be spread out to fewer councilors. DoFo loves to use L.A as an example though as a typical etreme right winger he like to leave out all of the facst and figures that he can't use in a simple tag line to fool his sheep.

L.A while haveing few councilors for it's city proper has a much much larger staff, almost 3 times the size of Toronto. On top of that I believe it has somewhere along this lines of 8 other satellite city halls all with their own councilors and staff, think of Toronto pre-amalgamation minus the added mayors. DoFo's claim thatit would save the city $4,000,000 over 4 years is such a tiny amount that there is no reason to do this. Sure city hall can streamline how they operate but having fewer councilors for more people and growing each year will not make the lives of Toronto tax payers any better.

He is just being an ass plain and simple, if the NDP, or Liberals tried this stunt I would be saying the same thing so to you conservatives out there I need to ask, what is up with you? Why are you backing this spoiled brat who is not for the people?

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Yeah, and you're a real genius, captain robotic, autistically uptight about every kind of minutae. You literally jump all over any post that has even an apostrophe or detail out of place. Get a life...

Yes - because it's really worth having a serious discussion with someone who uses the phrase "Tru-dope" and posts nonsense like this

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I consider voting for Wynne and Trudeau to be kicking ourselves in the nuts and then getting butt raped by a transgendered Somali imam.

[Acajack]

I don't want to be responsible for anyone's head exploding, but Montreal city proper has a whopping 103 elected officials. To Toronto's 44-45.

The main city council has 65 conseillers, and add to that the borough (arrondissement) councils that have people sit on them. Some of the borough council members also sit on Montreal city council, some don't.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Exactomundo. People are just nitpicking because they're salty pinko-commie feminazis *joking, sort of*

Subways! Subways! Subways!

• Video Link

Boy was he right. Rob Ford definitely turned out to be Toronto’s best mayor. Oh wait...

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't want to be responsible for anyone's head exploding, but Montreal city proper has a whopping 103 elected officials. To Toronto's 44-45.

The main city council has 65 conseillers, and add to that the borough (arrondissement) councils that have people sit on them. Some of the borough council members also sit on Montreal city council, some don't.

Metro Vancouver has 21 mayors and 94 councillors, for an average of just under 16,000 people per elected official (Montreal is just over 26,000, and Toronto's at about 57,000 currently; this could go up to over 105,000).

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I just got news that people in Ottawa called on him to consider reducing the council size there too. What’s going on?!

He told a journalist that he's getting lots of calls from Ottawans apparently looking for a smaller city council.

Maybe he'll take a look at the Region of Waterloo - a regional chair, eight mayors and 55 councillors in a regional municipality of 600,000 people.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Metro Vancouver has 21 mayors and 94 councillors, for an average of just under 16,000 people per elected official (Montreal is just over 26,000, and Toronto's at about 57,000 currently; this could go up to over 105,000).

Are these full-time positions? What are the Montreal and Vancouver councillors paid?

Toronto is already far past the point where a councillor is a neighbourhood person who is readily accessible to all constituents. The decision-making advantages of a smaller council will be significant, in my opinion, while citizen inquiries will mostly be dealt with by staff, as has long been the case anyway. Nor does it appear that there is any partisan advantage to the change.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It’d be funny though if this somehow pushes Ottawa (possibly plus Gatineau) to be its own province. IMO it’s about time.

Let's try to keep it real, shall we?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Are these full-time positions? What are the Montreal and Vancouver councillors paid?

Toronto is already far past the point where a councillor is a neighbourhood person who is readily accessible to all constituents. The decision-making advantages of a smaller council will be significant, in my opinion, while citizen inquiries will mostly be dealt with by staff, as has long been the case anyway. Nor does it appear that there is any partisan advantage to the change.

The first order of business for the new Toronto council should be the hiring of 25 new senior staffers to help the councillors deal with their much expanded constituencies.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How does reducing the size of Ottawa City Council help anybody living in a rural ward? If we reduce the council size say in half, the rural voice will be virtually eliminated. Do these people have a death wish for their own communities?

How would two rural councillors on a 12 person council have less influence than 4 councillors on a 24 person council?

[Docere]

The idea that Toronto's council is especially large is untrue, and there isn't a shred of evidence that cutting it would make it more effective or save money.

[hipster duck]

^Even if it did, it would be a cost borne by City of Toronto taxpayers; it wouldn't save the Province any money, and therefore is not of concern to a Provincial government.

I wish more Ontario conservatives would wake up to the fact that Ford is vicariously trying to be the Premier of Toronto, not Ontario. His knowledge, interest and attention in things north of Steeles Ave is almost exactly zero. I don't know why the opposition NDP doesn't play this up a little more. It's not like they would risk alienating their downtown Toronto constituency.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Docere

The idea that Toronto's council is especially large is untrue, and there isn't a shred of evidence that cutting it would make it more effective or save money.

Have there not been studies done in the past re shrinking the council? I don't think it's a new idea. In fact, isn't it now smaller than it was some years ago?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Are these full-time positions? What are the Montreal and Vancouver councillors paid?

Toronto is already far past the point where a councillor is a neighbourhood person who is readily accessible to all constituents. The decision-making advantages of a smaller council will be significant, in my opinion, while citizen inquiries will mostly be dealt with by staff, as has long been the case anyway. Nor does it appear that there is any partisan advantage to the change.

Vancouver's council is full-time. Every other municipality in Metro Vancouver isn't (although let's be honest, being a city councillor in any city larger than about 50,000 people is pretty much a full time job). I don't know what other cities pay, but a New Westminster councillor gets about $43k/yr, and there's six of them.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

^Even if it did, it would be a cost borne by City of Toronto taxpayers; it wouldn't save the Province any money, and therefore is not of concern to a Provincial government.

I wish more Ontario conservatives would wake up to the fact that Ford is vicariously trying to be the Premier of Toronto, not Ontario. His knowledge, interest and attention in things north of Steeles Ave is almost exactly zero. I don't know why the opposition NDP doesn't play this up a little more. It's not like they would risk alienating their downtown Toronto constituency.

If Ford expects the move to save $4M, that is $4M less that the Province has to transfer. So the savings will be realized.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Doug

If Ford expects the move to save $4M, that is $4M less that the Province has to transfer. So the savings will be realized.

No. Because transfers to municipalities don’t really work that way, and particularly not to Toronto.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Black Star

From Donald Mackenzie......



Utter rubbish. The clause is an integral part of the constitution. It is the protector of our ancient tradition of Parliamentary sovereignty, which was, sadly, damaged when we leaped blindly to follow the US model with a written Charter of Rights. Since them Parliamentary sovereignty and the democratic will has been thwarted time and again by unelected and unaccountable judges who have had the impertinence to make up laws - not based on tradition or our constitution but based on their own perverse views of how the country should be governed. That is not their role. Their actions have been improper. It is deeply regrettable that very few governments have had the stones to stand up for their own rights and to rebuke the pretensions of these judges. Well done, Ford. May other legislatures take heart and follow his lead.

Oh Gawd, a typical Contard rant. Do you people sit around in Tim Hortons and bitch to each other about judges, the CBC, Quebec etc ad nauseum?