WINDSOR | Construction - News and Development

[upinottawa]

Not surprised one bit.

The Toldo Group really did the PCR group a huge favour on this one.

In the end the complex will certainly improve the city's facilities and the price tag is reasonable. This deal, however, will only hurt the downtown that Mayor claims he wants to make a vibrant place.

[arnold]

so... is this complex going to have a total of seven ice pads? are the rendering of it available anywhere because i'm having a really hard time picturing all of this. just how big a facility is this going to be? it sounds like something the size of a small mall...

and where are they going to put it?

too bad they chose not to go downtown, it could have really spurred the redevelopment of a neglected area. oh well... more room for condos, i guess.

[arnold]

double post

[westerntragedy]

4 pads total at the new complex, but if you count the Ice track.. I don't even know what that adds up to. I was at the council meeting last night, saw the rendering and the design on paper, but I can't find any renderings online right now.

Basically the community center portion starts on the far left, followed by 3 ice pads in the middle, and the 6500 seat pad on the far right side. The architect made clear that the 3 sections of the facility can be closed off so that each can operate independently in the instance that any given evening has multiple events. It's nice, but I too wish they would have tried harder to put it near downtown instead signing a deal right when the debate was at its highest (and most productive) point yet.

[arnold]

^
hey western, how does the new facility look in the renderings? what types of materials were they showing? brick? aluminium? glass? give us the run down.

but please, please, please tell me that you didn't see any stucco...

[westerntragedy]

well I can't be certain if there's stucco or not, although the upper front of the building looked conspicuously like, um.. not brick

Below that, there was a supporting eight feet or so of concrete brick. The 6500 seater portion of the building is covered by a high shine metal roof, 2 brick towers with flagposts atop that extend from the edges, and "windows to allow for a lot of sunlight to the hallway areas" on the relative eastern side of the building, first and second floors. The inside of the 6500 seater is nice, 31 suite boxes, a restaurant up top, large open area for concessions (almost reminds me of Plymouth's arena), and on the relative northern end up top there is an area for future expansion to 8000 seats total.

Pricetag, $47 900 000. Yeah it'll be worth it, shame it isn't downtown, but if they put it on Banwell I'm gonna scream. Speaking of location, there was talk (somewhere, I forget where) of putting it on the site of the old Wal*Mart at Eastown Plaza, but that's a nutty idea! There's no way an arena that size will fit there; they need 30-40 acres.

Wal*Mart Site:


My BEST guess is they will locate it on Lauzon, directly southwest of the expressway next to the power station.

From near Martha's Garden farm, looking North to the Expressway on Lauzon:


Another view, looking ENE toward the power station from Lauzon:


At that location, it'll be easily to get to via the expressway, the 42, or Lauzon via Tecumseh, Wyandotte or RSD. What I think they hinted at during the council meeting was completion for the season in fall '08, but ehh I don't see that happening

[Blitz]

Here's a rendering

[y2k_pony]

that looks really nice.

[arnold]

yeah, that's not so bad. it looks like a really, really big high school with a rink incorporated. and after seeing the sheer size of this thing, i'm kind of glad they didn't stick it downtown. think of all of the parking that's going to be required for a big-box arena like this. it would have made a horrible pedestrian dead zone anywhere downtown. so maybe its all for the best...

so, are there any plans to tear down (or renovate) the old barn now, or will they keep it in service as a local rink?

[westerntragedy]

at the council meeting it was said that the Barn would be kept for general use by minor leagues

[Blitz]

^ As it should be, hell it should be declared historic and protected from demolition.

[Border City Boy]

Good point Blitz.

There is a meeting of the Heritage Comittee next Wednesday, and I'll bring up the subject and see what the feeling is...

[arnold]

i realize that the site has historical value to hockey fans, but what remains of the building that's worth saving? i've never been inside, but from the outside it looks like any historical significance has long since been plastered over. what did the building look like before it was ugh... 'renovated'. and is there a chance that they could pull the stucco off and restore an older more historical facade?

[Blitz]

You have to go inside to understand, it's like no other rink. Fans are right on top of the action and it's actually a great place to watch a game, but the facilities are so outdated that it had to be replaced.

[FenderStrat]

Originally Posted by Blitz

You have to go inside to understand, it's like no other rink. Fans are right on top of the action and it's actually a great place to watch a game, but the facilities are so outdated that it had to be replaced.

The seats are awful though. I hate being shoulder-to-shoudler with total strangers. I need my personal space. The bench-seating father back is okay if you aren't behind an obstruction ... but the actual seats are terrible!

[upinottawa]

Maybe someone will turn the barn into a Loblaws (Superstore) or a Home Depot?

[westerntragedy]

Big box yuck.
Well actually, it would have made a good place for the Downtown Market had they not chosen the Armouries. But yeah, that place needs to be preserved. It may look like a stucco nightmare on the outside, but those cramped hallways sure suggest a far ranging history..... into the depths of comfortless architecture!!

[upinottawa]

Arena needless, Cassivi says
City should back Ice Track project, councillor urges

Monica Wolfson, Windsor Star
Published: Tuesday, October 10, 2006

Windsor should back off building a new home for the Spitfires now that Tecumseh is getting a 6,500-seat arena, says city Coun. Dave Cassivi.

The lone councillor to vote against building a new civic arena in East Windsor, Cassivi said he still supports consolidating smaller rinks and a community centre.

"There is still a business case for doing that, but to add a spectator arena when Ice Track is a stone's throw away (in Tecumseh) is not prudent," Cassivi said. "Now that we have $15 million set aside ... we should move ahead with consolidating facilities, but we don't need an arena. There may be celebrations today, but we may be saddling our community with hangovers for generations to come. I've tried to encourage the Spitfires to make a deal with Ice Track."

Windsor missed its opportunity by not embracing the Ice Track proposal, the Ward 4 councillor said.

"I can understand the frustration of citizens in missing out on that opportunity," Cassivi said.

"I'm as disappointed as anyone on the foot-dragging and dithering. But it's also my job to make sure the disappointment shouldn't turn into desperation. What we don't want to do is jump on the bandwagon for politically expedient needs. Politicians may need an arena plan, but Windsor doesn't need a badly planned arena."

Windsor city council voted last week to accept a proposal to build a 6,500-seat arena with three NHL-sized hockey rinks and a 22,000-square-foot recreation centre at cost of $48 million.

SPITFIRES COMMITTED

The proposal will replace aging ice rinks in East Windsor and provide a new home for the Windsor Spitfires, who have committed to playing in a city facility.

The future city arena will be in direct competition with a plan by Ice Track in Tecumseh to construct a 6,500-seat arena with an extra ice pad in conjunction with the Windsor Raceway, which will also relocate its slots operation.

The project will cost $55 million.

Cassivi said he would have voted for the Ice Track plan, if it had come before city council. "For 25 years I've been pressing successive councils for an arena," he said.

"But this time the council agreed to proceed with entering into a development agreement with PCR Contractors Inc. and they did this with no operating cost analysis, no business or risk analysis. There is no location, which is so important to the success or failure to a project."

"I think there is a feeling that we have to deliver an election commitment. When you get jilted at the proverbial alter, you shouldn't propose to the first person you see. You should at least date."

© The Windsor Star 2006

______________________________________________________

I cannot help it, but I think the guy has a point. I am not committing either way (maybe I should run for council?), but I would almost prefer that the city did not build a 6500 seat arena out in the east end. I think the city would be better off building a 3 pad facility and community centre on the east end and let Tecumseh build the Spits arena.

Then, in 20 years, Windsor could build a proper home for the Spits downtown.

[upinottawa]

Missed this one on the weekend:

Ice Track may add a hotel, two rinks

Gary Rennie, Windsor Star
Published: Saturday, October 07, 2006

TECUMSEH - The $55-million Ice Track project in Tecumseh could get bigger, with one or two more ice pads and a hotel as likely additions when it opens in 2008, Mayor Gary McNamara said Friday.

In releasing new details, McNamara also said Tecumseh has protected itself with an option to back out of the deal if the town's right to share casino slot revenue of about $2.5 million a year is not approved.

Indications, so far, are that the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Commission will approve the move of Windsor Raceway and its casino slots to Tecumseh, McNamara said. But the town can opt out of the deal if that approval isn't received.

McNamara said Tecumseh will also not share in any of the management and other operating costs for the arena portion of the Ice Track Project and is not on the hook for any losses, if they occur.

Based on the casino slot revenue in recent years at Windsor Raceway, administrator Greg Keating said the town calculates a net revenue gain to the municipality of about $1 million to $1.5 million a year, above all its expected costs.

"That's what made the deal a no-brainer," he said.

There is a risk that the slot revenue could drop, but it would have to fall off drastically for the town not to benefit substantially, Keating said.

A revenue increase for Windsor Raceway at the new location appears possible based on the experience of other Ontario raceway/slots operations, McNamara said.

The town can't predict the municipal tax revenue from the raceway/casino portion of the project until all the components are finalized, Keating said. A hotel is now being discussed, about as well as other commercial operations on the 255-acre site, he noted.

However, while Windsor Raceway paid about $600,000 a year in taxes to the city, Tecumseh's commercial tax rate is lower, Keating noted.

Tecumseh has arranged meetings with Lakeshore and Essex to see if they want to purchase ice time in the new facility, said Keating.

Instead of a main rink with seating for 6,500, plus a practice pad as announced a week ago, one or two more ice pads may be needed to serve all three municipalities, Keating said.

While Tecumseh won't manage or share in operating costs for the rink complex of the Ice Track Project, the town pledged its best efforts to help find local users to make it a success, Keating said.

The town's agreement is to buy 2,100 hours of ice time annually at rate of $155 an hour, the current rate at its own arena. Future rates at Project Ice Track will be pegged at the municipal arena rate, he said.

The town had previously tried to interest Essex and Lakeshore in a joint arena project in the same location, but without success. Both municipalities have been studying arena expansions expected to cost $7 million to $20 million, depending on the number of ice pads and amenities.

While Tecumseh will pay $15 million upfront to the Ice Track project, it benefits indirectly from a saving of $8 million by not having to expand its own twin-pad arena, which may have been needed in the next three to five years depending on growth, McNamara said. Ice Track will pay the interest on the $15 million loan the town will seek for its share until the municipality begins to get tax and slot revenue in 2008, Keating said.

The town will also pay about $5 million to bring water and sewage services to the site, but expects development charges to largely recoup that cost.

With the deal, the town also solved a four-year-old expropriation battle with a complicated four-way swap and sale of lands north of Highway 401 and west of Manning Road.

In 2002, the town expropriated about 300 acres of farmland and a woodlot known locally as Fairplay Woods from a group of Windsor owners, paying $1.8 million. However, the owners claimed the property was worth $2.2 million more and the dispute was scheduled for an Ontario Municipal Board hearing this fall.

McNamara said the town settled the OMB issue without any additional cost by returning about 130 acres of the expropriated land to the former owners who in turn sold the property to Project Ice Track, which also bought land from Coxon Towing immediately adjacent to Highway 401.

ICE TRACK FACTS

-Tecumseh expects to net $1 million to $1.5 million in revenue annually from the Ice Track arena/track/casino project beyond all its expected costs.

- The town saves the estimated $8 million cost of expanding its own arena by another ice pad

- The town has no liability for Ice Track arena management and operating costs and is not on the hook to share losses, if they occur.

- The Ice Track owners will initially pay the interest on the $15 million the town will borrow to contribute to the project until tax and casino slot revenue begin to flow to the municipality in 2008.

- The town can buy 2,100 hours of ice time a year from the Ice Track project at $155 an hour to start, and the cost will be pegged no higher than municipal arena ice time rates in the future.

- Both the town and the Ice Track project will contribute to a capital fund to maintain the arena buildings and parking lot.

- The town will own the land on which the arena portion of the project will be built, but lease it back to the Ice Track project for $1 a year; the lease period will be for 25 years, with options to renew after every 25 years.

- Annual tax revenue to the town is hard to predict until all components are finalized and built.

- Tecumseh settled its long-running expropriation battle with the former owners of the Windsor drag strip and Fairplay Woods property in order to complete the deal with the Ice Track Project, and that also potentially saved the town as much as $2 million in land costs.

© The Windsor Star 2006

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I must admit that the more I think about it, the city should let the Spits play out in Tecumseh and the city should not build a new premier rink. Let the east end complex proceed without the 6500 seat arena, and then build a new arena downtown in another 15 to 20 years. By that time the Tecumseh arena will start showing its age and a "bring the Spits back to Windsor" campaign will grow and build political support for a new downtown rink.

That, and in a few years Tecumseh will amalgamate with Windsor....

[arnold]

^
maybe that's not such a bad idea...

in anyonyone's opinion, what are the chances that a new arena will do some good and act as a catalyst to spur some more development and density at its selected east end location? i mean, is there a chance that this will become a transit hub, or will enhance an already existing pedestrian friendly high-street near by? or is this just going to be a greenfield, big-box arena development like the icetrack, with the only difference being that its physically inside the current city borders?