2014 Quebec General Election + General Separatism Discussion - Page 5

saffronleaf · #81 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I never said that, although some more balanced reporting would nice for a change.

Balanced reporting for the sake of balanced reporting is pointless. Journalism should try to get at the truth, not simply present multiple viewpoints even if some of those viewpoints are discredited or extremist.

This is why some people still don't believe in things like evolution and climate change. Balance for the sake of balance is nonsense.

The fact is that many non-francophones in Quebec do not feel welcome.

rousseau · #82 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool maudit

as michel houellebecq said after moving from france to ireland, everything about life in english reflects the fact that it was they (we) who invented capitalism. we are a very mercantile people, and we speak about cities in a mercantile way. this can be both fruitful and limiting.

Off-topic: Atomised (aka The Elementary Particles) is one of the best novels I have ever read.

ue · #83 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

How many ignorant bumfucks in rural Quebec give two shits about policies in Alberta and Saskatchewan? Oh, that's right: none.

There is a virulent strain of anti-Quebec sentiment in the prairies borne of ignorance and...what? I don't know. It's ignorance of the Sun News variety. It goes like this: wholesome hardworking prairie folk are being soaked for transfer payments so that Quebec can have its whimsical linguistic policies and leftwing socialism.

The vitriol and ignorance of the Prairies from Quebec is nothing new. It goes both ways, really. For the record, I've never met anyone who watches Sun News (or who has even heard of it), in good ol' bumfuck-y Alberta. You seem not to grasp the fact that the comment sections of media websites are always the bastion for the loonies, be they from Moose Jaw or London, Ontario. They represent a very small segment of the population.

saffronleaf · #84 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't disagree with you but most born and bred francophone Montrealers I know vote PQ. By a wide margin. Most of the Montrealers who are francophones that I know and who vote Liberal are either from the Outaouais or from other provinces of Canada.

Perhaps you associate primarily with PQ voters?

Acajack · #85 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Balanced reporting for the sake of balanced reporting is pointless. Journalism should try to get at the truth, not simply present multiple viewpoints even if some of those viewpoints are discredited or extremist.

This is why some people still don't believe in things like evolution and climate change. Balance for the sake of balance is nonsense.

The fact is that many non-francophones in Quebec do not feel welcome.

Well, that article said something like all languages other than French are banned. That is incorrect and misleading.

SignalHillHiker · #86 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:09 PM**

You guys seem to think rural conservatives, whether in Quebec or on the prairies, are doing a lot more bumfucking than I imagine they are.

kool maudit · #87 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:10 PM**

the idea that countries are required to present immigrants with a welcoming, malleable, value-neutral "platform for success" is pretty much a product of anglosphere capitalism/globalism.

it might be a nice product (i am, after all, an anglo capitalist)... but it is not some sort of abstract moral universal. it's a specific cultural ideal.

Acajack · #88 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Perhaps you associate primarily with PQ voters?

I am originally a francophone from outside Quebec that lives in the federalist public service enclave of Gatineau. Most people I know and associate with are Liberals by a wide margin.

dleung · #89 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:11 PM**

Funny title, because many new immigrants to Quebec (particularly the investor class) leave the province before they even arrive there. The exploit the program, which is quicker than the federal program, lend Quebec $800k, then promptly settle down elsewhere (Vancouver 55% of the time) while using BC's social services.

ue · #90 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

You guys seem to think rural conservatives, whether in Quebec or on the prairies, are doing a lot more bumfucking than I imagine they are.

But you didn't know? Everyone in Alberta can't shut up about how much they hate la belle province, demand their parking tickets be received in English, and watch the Sun News for when they aren't spewing hate about Quebec. Someone in Southern Ontario said it was true, therefore it must be!

saffronleaf · #91 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool maudit

the idea that a country should present immigrants with a welcoming, malleable, value-neutral "platform for success" is pretty much a product of anglosphere capitalism/globalism.

it might be a nice product (i am, after all, an anglo capitalist)... but it is not some sort of abstract moral universal. it's a specific cultural ideal.

Definitely. Things like hardcore nationalism and xenophobia are more seen in Continental Europe, and the PQ is trying to steal a page out of their book.

saffronleaf · #92 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dleung

Funny title, because many new immigrants to Quebec (particularly the investor class) leave the province before they even arrive there. The exploit the program, which is quicker than the federal program, lend Quebec $800k, then promptly settle down in Vancouver 55% of the time while using BC's social services.

I'm sure PQ is thrilled about that.

Give me your money but GTFO if you are not an authentic Quebecois with 20 generations of roots.

Also, what do you have to say about the Anglophones who want to leave? Are they also lending Quebec money so they can escape to BC?

Ramako · #93 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Not surprised at all.

I wonder how huge the depopulation would be if sovereignty happened... 500 000+? Possibly more with the ending of transfer payments and the provincial (becoming federal) government taking its share of Canada's federal debt load and the subsequent drastic lowering of quality of life and services.

(Of course I don't want Quebec to separate but...) I'd be far more interested to see what major corporations would make their way down the 401. Bell Canada, Air Canada and Canadian National Railway seem like no-brainers. Plus there's Business Development Bank of Canada and Via Rail which are Crown corporations.

What better silver lining than a slew of new office towers for Toronto!

SignalHillHiker · #94 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:17 PM**

Hopefully Air Canada will just fold and cease to exist.

geotag277 · #95 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramako

(Of course I don't want Quebec to separate but...) I'd be far more interested to see what major corporations would make their way down the 401. Bell Canada, Air Canada and Canadian National Railway seem like no-brainers. Plus there's Business Development Bank of Canada and Via Rail which are Crown corporations.

Montreal's loss is Toronto's gain. I'm surprised there aren't more Toronto politicians pushing for Quebec's separation, it would likely be a major, long lasting, long term economic boom for the city.

GreaterMontréal · #96 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:22 PM**

50% consider leaving, but the population goes up every year. ok. 8.2M+ , they like Qc more than you think.

SignalHillHiker · #97 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by geotag277

Montreal's loss is Toronto's gain. I'm surprised there aren't more Toronto politicians pushing for Quebec's separation, it would likely be a major, long lasting, long term economic boom for the city.

Sort of. All of these businesses would also be losing the country's second-largest provincial population - and their entire raison d'etre en francais (

).

I'm willing to bet, in order to avoid that, they (and the Quebec government) would work hard to set up national offices in Montreal.

My company, for example, is a multinational. We have several offices in Canada, including one in Montreal where the staff are all bilingual. If Quebec separated, you can bet we'll jump through whatever hoops it takes to keep that Montreal office open with the same staff. The Quebec market is important to us. They don't buy as much as the English market, but what they buy is the pricier, more expensive services.

saffronleaf · #98 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

50% consider leaving, but the population goes up every year. ok. 8.2M+ , they like Qc more than you think.

Many educated people in poor countries dream of coming to Canada. As long as Quebec accepts them, they will come.

Unfortunately, when they arrive, they are ostracized and they begin contemplating another move.

To Ontario. Land of the brave, home of the free. Loyal she remains. Theirs to discover. Blooming trillium flowers. Etc.

Surrealplaces · #99 Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

50% consider leaving, but the population goes up every year. ok. 8.2M+ , they like Qc more than you think.

International immigration is what keeps the population going. It's the same for Toronto. I don't have the numbers handy, but IIRC, both Montreal and Toronto would actually be losing population if not for net gains in international immigration. Vancouver is the same too I believe.

GreaterMontréal · #**100** Posted **Feb 25, 2014, 10:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by geotag277

Montreal's loss is Toronto's gain. I'm surprised there aren't more Toronto politicians pushing for Quebec's separation, it would likely be a major, long lasting, long term economic boom for the city.

If they don't push, it's because they all know Canada will go down if Quebec separates. All the love in 1995.... hypocrites ? It's like Australia losing Melbourne+Brisbane. catastrophe