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  #4641  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2018, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
The Expo Line end hub in Surrey right now is Surrey Central Station - King George Station is more a relief station for the King George buses and a place to drive up to to drop someone off (Surrey Central Station is a nightmare for that). It would make way more sense to extend it one more stop over to the Outpatient Centre and RCMP headquarters (which has acres of surface parking... ).

Note: this doesn't mean I don't think Expo shouldn't be extended along Fraser Hwy. I am a big supporter of that - I just think we're going to have to wait a long time for it for happen.
Indeed I don't think it's in the budget to do Broadway and Langley at the same time. L - LRT is an okay compromise and much better than seeing F Hway get built as an LRT when it needs to be seamless.
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  #4642  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2018, 7:25 PM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post
Indeed I don't think it's in the budget to do Broadway and Langley at the same time. L - LRT is an okay compromise and much better than seeing F Hway get built as an LRT when it needs to be seamless.
With the recent bridge announcement to start in 2019, it makes me wonder how long it will be before the shovels hit the ground on any transit projects. Me thinks they are years away.
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  #4643  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2018, 8:02 PM
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With the recent bridge announcement to start in 2019, it makes me wonder how long it will be before the shovels hit the ground on any transit projects. Me thinks they are years away.
Years? I'd be astonished if nothing wasn't happening within a year. Most of the planning work etc is all done so they just need to issue an RFP, RFQ
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  #4644  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2018, 8:34 PM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post
Years? I'd be astonished if nothing wasn't happening within a year. Most of the planning work etc is all done so they just need to issue an RFP, RFQ
What about the 20% funding shortfall that no one seems to have answers for?
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  #4645  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2018, 3:24 PM
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What about the 20% funding shortfall that no one seems to have answers for?
15% and I'm sure they will find something. The opportunity is just too great.
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  #4646  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2018, 3:54 PM
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post
Years? I'd be astonished if nothing wasn't happening within a year. Most of the planning work etc is all done so they just need to issue an RFP, RFQ
It sure doesn't seem to me that concept designs and diagrams we've seen so far are "most of the planning work". Surely the actual engineering design can't start until one of the concepts has actually been selected.
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  #4647  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post
Indeed I don't think it's in the budget to do Broadway and Langley at the same time. L - LRT is an okay compromise and much better than seeing F Hway get built as an LRT when it needs to be seamless.
I'll say it one more time: an Expo extension to Langley and a 96 upgrade would cost about as much as both LRT lines. If A and B can be built at the same time, and B = C, then A and C can be built at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post
Years? I'd be astonished if nothing wasn't happening within a year. Most of the planning work etc is all done so they just need to issue an RFP, RFQ
Survey work and cost-benefit & environmental studies =/= most of the planning. Let's see some station designs at an open house before we say "ready to build."
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  #4648  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2018, 8:10 AM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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15% and I'm sure they will find something. The opportunity is just too great.
Province 40%

Feds 40%

That equals only 80%. How do you come up with just 15%?
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  #4649  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2018, 9:00 AM
dpogue dpogue is offline
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Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
Province 40%

Feds 40%

That equals only 80%. How do you come up with just 15%?
TransLink/MetroVancouver is currently able to cover 5%, but that leaves 15% to go. They need the province to approve new revenue sources in order to cover that gap.
Source (page 5)
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  #4650  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2018, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
I'll say it one more time: an Expo extension to Langley and a 96 upgrade would cost about as much as both LRT lines. If A and B can be built at the same time, and B = C, then A and C can be built at the same time.



Survey work and cost-benefit & environmental studies =/= most of the planning. Let's see some station designs at an open house before we say "ready to build."
The stops don't need to be super location specific as they are just stops not full blown stations, it will be easy to do that engineering.

Langley definitely won't cost the same when you factor in the need for significant omc expansion (or hopefully a new SOF omc), and fleet expansion beyond what is already planned.
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  #4651  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2018, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post
The stops don't need to be super location specific as they are just stops not full blown stations, it will be easy to do that engineering.

Langley definitely won't cost the same when you factor in the need for significant omc expansion (or hopefully a new SOF omc), and fleet expansion beyond what is already planned.
I'm talking about Broadway. For Surrey, they still need to finish all the bus interchanges and road/bridge upgrades first... and of course, TransLink's going to want to drag their heels until after the election in October.

RRT1A: $2.2 billion; LRT1: $2.18 billion. Both RRT and LRT will need OMC and train expansion, and that'll come later, after initial construction when costs are tied. Please stop coming up with alternative facts.
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  #4652  
Old Posted Yesterday, 2:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
I'm talking about Broadway. For Surrey, they still need to finish all the bus interchanges and road/bridge upgrades first... and of course, TransLink's going to want to drag their heels until after the election in October.

RRT1A: $2.2 billion; LRT1: $2.18 billion. Both RRT and LRT will need OMC and train expansion, and that'll come later, after initial construction when costs are tied. Please stop coming up with alternative facts.
It's not an "Alternative fact" the current OMC capacity we have is anemic hence the need to expand the Falcon yard. Another major expansion to Langley only means OMC expansion needs to be extended. Not only is the capacity totally inadequate for more than the 2 car long "electric buses" running on the Millenium line now once it is extended but, once Langley is completed the distance to the main Expo OMC will not be ideal for trains.

I'd appreciate you not calling my statements that as well. Just because Translink has a study that says xyz doesn't make it correct. Expanding the fleet to 4 cars on all lines is going to require a massive increase in yard capacity whether or not the studies from years ago (under different assumptions might I add) say so or not. Indeed it's not uncommon for studies done by transit agencies to be flawed or to be pushed in one direction or another by political pressure as well. They are not the be all end all. (Just would like to note that that LRT figure is off by what like 500 million? Thats without the project even starting and god knows what delays potentiall happening. )

"In early 2016, the City of Surrey revised the cost of the project from $2.14 billion to $2.6 billion."

Source: https://globalnews.ca/news/4026206/t...ill-not-known/

So indeed the idea that perhaps they didn't consider all the costs for one thing or another is totally in the realm of possibility, whether thats for Skytrain or LRT, major infrastructure projects are very often delayed and or overbudget especially when they are technically complicated.
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  #4653  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post
It's not an "Alternative fact" the current OMC capacity we have is anemic hence the need to expand the Falcon yard. Another major expansion to Langley only means OMC expansion needs to be extended. Not only is the capacity totally inadequate for more than the 2 car long "electric buses" running on the Millenium line now once it is extended but, once Langley is completed the distance to the main Expo OMC will not be ideal for trains.
Due to all the new trains arriving over the next decade or so, the Falcon yard's likely to expand with or without the Langley extension; seems somewhat disingenuous to tack that bill onto the RRT1 estimate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post
Just because Translink has a study that says xyz doesn't make it correct. Expanding the fleet to 4 cars on all lines is going to require a massive increase in yard capacity whether or not the studies from years ago (under different assumptions might I add) say so or not. Indeed it's not uncommon for studies done by transit agencies to be flawed or to be pushed in one direction or another by political pressure as well. They are not the be all end all. (Just would like to note that that LRT figure is off by what like 500 million? Thats without the project even starting and god knows what delays potentiall happening. )
I'm trying to be fair to the LRT option, since RRT1A isn't being pursued and therefore the $2.2B estimate isn't subject to budget creep like LRT1 is. Since SkyTrain cars aren't much more expensive than light rail cars, and LRT is going to need an OMC of its own rather than using the Falcon yard, any cost overruns would appear to be near-identical for both options.

Accusing TransLink of an unfair bias towards the SkyTrain option makes you no better than posters in the Viaducts threads shouting "conspiracy" and "agenda." Skepticism is a healthy part of any conversation; cherry picking and second-guessing are not.

Last edited by Migrant_Coconut; Yesterday at 6:11 AM. Reason: Typo
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  #4654  
Old Posted Yesterday, 3:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
Due to all the new trains arriving over the next decade or so, the Falcon yard's likely to expand with or without the Langley extension; seems somewhat disingenuous to tack that bill onto the RRT1 estimate.



I'm trying to be fair to the LRT option, since RRT1A isn't being pursued and therefore the $2.2B estimate isn't subject to budget creep like LRT1 is. Since SkyTrain cars aren't much more expensive than light rail cars, and LRT is going to need an OMC of its own rather than using the Falcon yard, any cost overruns would appear to be near-identical for both options.

Accusing TransLink of an unfair bias towards the SkyTrain option makes you no better than posters in the Viaducts threads shouting "conspiracy" and "agenda." Skepticism is a healthy part of any conversation; cherry picking and second-guessing are not.
I not once accused Translink of being biased one way or another, all I said is that biases are frequently something that leads to inaccurate costs one way or another.

And wrt Falcon Yard I'm not sure how much of the fleet it currently handles but an Extension to Langley would likely require a pretty large fleet expansion plus the location means another OMC would likely be more convenient rather than having to dead head trains back to the original OMC.
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  #4655  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Reecemartin View Post
I not once accused Translink of being biased one way or another, all I said is that biases are frequently something that leads to inaccurate costs one way or another.

And wrt Falcon Yard I'm not sure how much of the fleet it currently handles but an Extension to Langley would likely require a pretty large fleet expansion plus the location means another OMC would likely be more convenient rather than having to dead head trains back to the original OMC.
Light rail would need its own OMC too. The construction costs for such an OMC are likely factored into both estimates; insinuating that TransLink ignored/overlooked expenses on one option and added expenses on another, without proof - and then saying "Langley will definitely cost more" like it's a fact - only undermines your credibility.
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