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  #101  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:18 AM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
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Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames View Post
what about riverview instead of west village?
some people equate Riverview with an asylum
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  #102  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:18 AM
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Thanks. It was indeed a creosote plant though right, as opposed to the creosote treatment being a secondary function of a lumber yard or other use?
The company was called Canadian Creosote, I guess that was their primary function. I believe they went bankrupt in 1968.
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  #103  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:22 AM
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Does CPR own all of those undeveloped blocks of land? I have a feeling they don't.
It wouldn't surprise me if they still owned a significant number of them,
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  #104  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 1:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelS View Post
Does CPR own all of those undeveloped blocks of land? I have a feeling they don't.
Whoever does own those blocks will make a killing if the railway tracks can get removed and the land cleaned up for development. I'd be very surprised if CPR or Marathon Realty didn't own these parking lots.

If I told someone in Vancouver in the 1970's that some day all that CPR land on False Creek would become housing, I'd be told to get my medication adjusted. The Province bought the land from the CPR, cleared out the railway tracks and industry, and built Expo 86. After the party was over the land was cleared again and (mostly) cleaned up, then sold to Concord Pacific (via Hong Kong Gazilionaire Li Ka-shing). He flipped some parcels to other developers (recouping what he paid the Province for the site) and started building condos. In 5 or 10 more years all the Expo lands will be redeveloped.

That's what happened over a 30 year time-span on False Creek.
Do we want to see acres of parking lots downtown with freight trains still rumbling by in 30 years time?
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  #105  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 2:02 AM
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Originally Posted by frinkprof View Post
Thanks. It was indeed a creosote plant though right, as opposed to the creosote treatment being a secondary function of a lumber yard or other use?
Judging by the 1949 photo showing the stacks of lumber and the CPR sidings into the site, my guess would be that cut ties were delivered by rail & stacked on one side of the property, processed through the creosote plant, and then stacked on the other side of the property waiting to be picked up by CPR for delivery.
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  #106  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 2:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
The company was called Canadian Creosote, I guess that was their primary function. I believe they went bankrupt in 1968.
And they are (were) related to CPR.

WhoDaThunk? A Creosote company that can process railway ties to make them last longer, related to the CPR who needed long-lasting railway ties.

'tis a small world.
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  #107  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 3:27 AM
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Omnibus comments

Re: CPR lands
The CPR got a huge land grant (the size of a decent country, e.g. Cuba, Hungary or S. Korea), essentially every second square mile; each township was marked as a checkerboard with the black squares mostly to the railways and the white ones to settlers. The square mile that Fort Calgary was built on was an open one (and where the first Calgarians had already settled); therefore, the CPR built their station in the middle of the mile that they owned (6th St E to 4th St W; 17th Ave S to the river). And they built a large suburb for their executives on the next parcel they owned to the southwest (4th St to 14th St W; 17th Ave to 34th St S), which is where we got Mount Royal. For more information, consult your Public Library.

Re: CPR tunnel
Because of the high clearance of trains and the low tolerance for grades, the tunnel would have to be exceedingly long, methinks. At 0.5% grade and 12 m vertical deviation, a tunnel that crossed under the Elbow would go back to the midpoint of Alyth yards; another would have to be built if the Nose Creek railroad was to connect, and it would go all the way to the bridge over the Bow. Needless to say, 12th St SE would be shut down for a few years.
Overall, I'd think something closer to 15 km of tunneling would be needed.

Re: Fishwrap reporting standards
Depressing.

Re: Name
My suggestion is South Hillhurst, or more properly, Southe Hillhurste.

Re: Concept plans
I particularly like the land bridge design.

Re: The market
A transit oriented development needs a certain amount of density to really thrive; I'd have moved to Bridgeland years ago if there was a grocery store I could walk to, but it still doesn't have enough density to be compelling enough for someone. (Hopefully soon.) Brentwood and Westbrook are existing successful shopping centres, so there's less pressure there. But if both East and West villages are going simultaneously, it'll take twice as long for either to really build the critical mass to entice services. And without the services, house prices will be lower, which discourages dense building. I like planning for the West Village, but it shouldn't progress until the East Village is already largely complete. Not entirely unlike the staging with the Bridges and the East Village, although I would have waited even longer.
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  #108  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 4:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jsbertram View Post
And they are (were) related to CPR.

WhoDaThunk? A Creosote company that can process railway ties to make them last longer, related to the CPR who needed long-lasting railway ties.

'tis a small world.
I wouldn't think so - because I don't recall the CPR having anything to do with the remediation. But were talking ~1990 here - it isn't fresh in my mind.
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  #109  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 6:16 AM
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Thank's for all the input on the CPR tracks. Great info! And the history lesson. I think though the city is going to have to bridge, tunnel whatever to make these area's more cohesive with each other including the DT core spilling over the tracks south.
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  #110  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby View Post
Re: CPR tunnel
Because of the high clearance of trains and the low tolerance for grades, the tunnel would have to be exceedingly long, methinks. At 0.5% grade and 12 m vertical deviation, a tunnel that crossed under the Elbow would go back to the midpoint of Alyth yards; another would have to be built if the Nose Creek railroad was to connect, and it would go all the way to the bridge over the Bow. Needless to say, 12th St SE would be shut down for a few years.
Overall, I'd think something closer to 15 km of tunneling would be needed.
If West portal was at 85 St NW / Bearspaw Dam Rd (the tunnel would begin under the Silver Springs bluffs), and the East portal was at 64th Ave NE / Deerfoot (under the Huntington Hills bluffs), with the tunnel connecting to the Nose Creek CPR tracks, why would any more tunneling need to be done south from 64th Ave NE to Alyth yards? or tunnel under the Bow or Elbow rivers?

The Nose Creek CPR line going to Red Deer and Edmonton has been there since about 1890, but the section of Nose Creek trackage from Alyth Yard up to the new tunnel's East portal at 64th Ave may have to be be upgraded to mainline standards to handle the mainline traffic using the new tunnel, as well as trains using that same section of Nose Creek trackage as part of the Red Deer & Edmonton line.

As for the elevation change between the Bow River at 85th St NW, and the Nose Creek at 64th Ave NE, I doubt that this would be significant over the (estimated) 11 KM length of the tunnel.
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  #111  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
I wouldn't think so - because I don't recall the CPR having anything to do with the remediation. But were talking ~1990 here - it isn't fresh in my mind.
Just because they are related companies (CPR and Canadian Creosote) doesn't mean they are responsible for each other's remediation costs. Canadian Creosote goes into bankruptcy? You can't chase after CPR to pay for remediation because they are separate (but related) companies.

CP Rail also used to have CP Ship and CP Air as separate, but related companies. If a CP Air plane crashed & insurance wouldn't cover all the damages, you can't then go after CP Rail or CP Ship to cover the uninsured damages.
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  #112  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2009, 6:40 PM
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No, but if they were affiliated the CPR would have likely retained ownership of the site.
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  #113  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2009, 1:01 AM
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Originally Posted by CorporateWhore View Post
Let's combine Cresote Meadows and Scarboro Parke.....Scrote Meadows.
Scrote Mead

Gots to have me some Scrote Mead, Mmm Mmm good.
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  #114  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2009, 1:55 AM
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The should call it Riverside District.
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  #115  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2009, 5:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
No, but if they were affiliated the CPR would have likely retained ownership of the site.
If your brothers' business goes bankrupt, the creditors can't get money out of you or your business just because you are brothers.

However, if both brothers are co-owners of the bankrupt company, their creditors can hound them both. However, they can't make claims against your personal property or assets that weren't part of the the bankrupt company. CPR and Canadian Creosote are 'sister companies' but have separate assets. When Canadian Creosote goes bankrupt, the creditors can't make claims any of the CPR assets.

How many times have you heard of a company declaring bankruptcy, and it is revealed later that before declaring bankruptcy the owner has moved assets out of the company into a new company 'owned' by the wife or kids. Even though the new company was purposefully set up beforehand to receive assets from the old company before it went into bankruptcy, the creditors can't chase after that new company or its owners (even if the new companies' owners have a family relationship to the owner of the bankrupt company).

BTW I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this as legal advice.
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  #116  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2009, 5:58 AM
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Originally Posted by danofkent View Post
How about Cloudyside, given that Sunnyside is on the opposite bank of the river?! Or keep it in Sunalta, but give it a subdivisional name, like developers do in new communities - Sunalta Bank.
I thought Sunnyside is East of 10th St and North of Memorial; Kensington is between 10th St & 14th St and North of Memorial; and Hillhurst is between 14th St W & Crowchild and North of Memorial.

Its been many years since I've thought about those districts.
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  #117  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2009, 6:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
Scrote Mead

Gots to have me some Scrote Mead, Mmm Mmm good.
Scarboro Fair
It can be built like fake-Medieval village, and during the summer have buskers wandering the streets singing the ballad made famous by Simon & Garfunkle.

It would get tiresome quickly if you lived there,
but oooooh .... how the tourists would love it!
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  #118  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2009, 6:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jsbertram View Post
I thought Sunnyside is East of 10th St and North of Memorial; Kensington is between 10th St & 14th St and North of Memorial; and Hillhurst is between 14th St W & Crowchild and North of Memorial.

Its been many years since I've thought about those districts.
You're right about Sunnyside- it is East of 10th Street and North of Memorial. And West Hillhurst is between 14th Street and Crowchild. Hillhurst is between 10th street and 14th Street. No such community as Kensington exists. It is the name of a road, and as such people refer to the area as Kensington, but it is not an official community title. Just like saying, I live on 17th. It's just a road, not a community.
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  #119  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2009, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by fusili View Post
You're right about Sunnyside- it is East of 10th Street and North of Memorial. And West Hillhurst is between 14th Street and Crowchild. Hillhurst is between 10th street and 14th Street.
I propose the name of the west village be Southe Weste Hillhurstetowne.
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  #120  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2009, 2:22 PM
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I think Hillhurst officially goes to 19th street, and West Hillhurst is to Crowchild from there.
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