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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2008, 5:11 AM
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ASHEVILLE, NC | Grove Arcade Public Market - 1920's era tower plans dusted off

What do you all think? Here are the renderings.



















Source: http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb...D=200880402090

Notice the huge white building in the middle left of the second-to-last picture? That's the Grove Arcade Public Market, brainchild of E.W. Grove, a St. Louis patent medicine magnate who moved to Asheville in the 20's, and, capitalizing on its status as one of the most fashionable resorts in America at the time, set about cementing its status as a cosmopolitan hub of the Jazz Age. The tall white tower was originally to have capped the Arcade, but a combination of Grove's death and the onset of the Depression put an end to its grand plans.

Now, a developer who divides his time between Miami and Asheville has taken those plans and brought us a proposal to build that tower, if in a somewhat elongated form, after all these years. The original tower was planned to be 14-18 stories tall. The tower as proposed now would stand 25 stories tall and would house a 225-room hotel. The modern condo tower to be constructed as part of the project would stand 21 stories tall and would house 90-plus condo units. There would also be a 550-space underground parking deck.
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"To sustain the life of a large, modern city in this cloying, clinging heat is an amazing achievement. It is no wonder that the white men and women in Greenville walk with a slow, dragging pride, as if they had taken up a challenge and intended to defy it without end." -- Rebecca West for The New Yorker, 1947

Last edited by hauntedheadnc; Apr 7, 2008 at 9:36 PM.
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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2008, 6:02 PM
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  #3  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2008, 1:58 PM
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awesome. hopefully they'll use good materials and not faux-old looking ones.

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  #4  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2008, 7:33 PM
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^Ditto. Love it!
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  #5  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2008, 8:12 PM
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Even though I live 600 miles from Asheville, I'm for it 200%. Asheville is a beautiful town with mainly older buildings dominating the skyline. This 20's-style building would fit right in!
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  #6  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2008, 8:42 PM
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I actually spoke with the developer about this project, and as others have mentioned, if they use quality materials in this project, this will be about as good a project as any city could hope for. They're even talking -- very preliminarily -- about adding an affordable housing component to the condo tower, as well as adding some public amenities.

It's rare, but this is one developer that actually cares about this city and its issues.
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"To sustain the life of a large, modern city in this cloying, clinging heat is an amazing achievement. It is no wonder that the white men and women in Greenville walk with a slow, dragging pride, as if they had taken up a challenge and intended to defy it without end." -- Rebecca West for The New Yorker, 1947
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  #7  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2008, 10:44 PM
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I think this looks great!
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  #8  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 11:53 PM
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I've always wished that building had gotten built. It will really fit in well with all the historic towers and buildings in Asheville. If this gets under way, it will be my favorite project in North Carolina (this coming from a Charlotte guy!)
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  #9  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2008, 9:34 AM
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It's good to see Asheville building up rather than yet another gated golf community ruining the mountains (I grew up there). But it's sad to see them propose something so historically mundane. I guess I'm not surprised, modernity has never been embraced by Asheville, despite its over-hyped 'new age' community. These towers look awful together and make no sense.

I'd be interested in what the populace (via the Citizen Times, etc.) has to say. (?)
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  #10  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by View2gowanus View Post
It's good to see Asheville building up rather than yet another gated golf community ruining the mountains (I grew up there). But it's sad to see them propose something so historically mundane. I guess I'm not surprised, modernity has never been embraced by Asheville, despite its over-hyped 'new age' community. These towers look awful together and make no sense.

I'd be interested in what the populace (via the Citizen Times, etc.) has to say. (?)
Seeing as how local architects, as well as a few national names such as I.M. Pei, have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are completely and irrevocably incompetent at delivering a modern design that's pleasing or attractive in Asheville, can you blame Ashevillians for wanting buildings that are more in line with what's already here? And that "new age" community you referred to is pretty much a reaction to the corrosive influences of modernism anyway though, unless the hippies and crystal worshipers and witches in Brooklyn live in boxy glass towers or something. Around here's we're used to them growing organic veggies back behind old 1920's-era bungalows and totally rejecting the rat race.

How is this historically mundane, might I also ask, when what the developer is doing is building a structure that was already planned? All he's doing is adding about six floors to the tower planned originally for the top of the Grove Arcade. Is it "mundane" to take old, good plans and put them to work? Would it be "mundane" to also take Douglas Ellington's Art Deco high-rise courthouse plans, or any of the other Asheville tower plans that were killed by the Depression, and build them too?

And also, how on earth did you spend any time here and not notice how no two buildings downtown match each other? All the best buildings are juxtaposed against other wildly clashing styles. Art Deco City Hall and neoclassical Buncombe County Courthouse. Spanish baroque Basilica of St. Lawrence and brutalist Asheville Civic Center (although the Civic Center is not one of the best buildings by any stretch of the imagination). Romanesque Drhumor Building next to the Art Deco S&W Cafeteria Building, across the street from the brutalist Wachovia Bank. Hell, look at the Grove Arcade itself. It's Italianate/neo-gothic and to the north there's the neo-Georgian Battery Park Hotel. To the east there's the Art Deco Pearlman's Furniture building. To the west there's the art-moderne Asheville Citizen-Times building and to the south there's a modern parking deck and a couple of arte-nouveau commercial buildings.

If the two buildings proposed as part of this plan did match at all, then they'd be boring and not at all in keeping with the city's character.

What exactly would you propose for Asheville? Some lumpy Bilbao-esque tower?

Oh yeah... and as for what the locals are saying, for one you have your usual selection of whiny transplants complaining that they moved here for "quaint, small-town charm" (when Asheville is not quaint and does not have small-town charm, and doesn't want to) while blissfully ignoring the fact that by moving here, they helped make the city less small. Then you have your social activists who hate the rich and see this as another invasion of the gentry, and who will probably vandalize the construction site the way they've done with most every other large-scale project nearby over the past decade. Perhaps not ironically, in that vein, this building would replace the Kostas Menswear building, which also used to house a furrier where a couple of years ago someone impaled a raccoon on a pole and jammed it through the door handles.

Everyone else, however, seems to be thrilled about this proposal.
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"To sustain the life of a large, modern city in this cloying, clinging heat is an amazing achievement. It is no wonder that the white men and women in Greenville walk with a slow, dragging pride, as if they had taken up a challenge and intended to defy it without end." -- Rebecca West for The New Yorker, 1947
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  #11  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2008, 2:33 PM
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Two questions; Whos going to build it? and if no one has been awarded this job; When is the bid date? Id love to build that thing, and live in ashville for a while. I always hear good things about the culture there.... do you know what kind of structure they plan to use? It being plans from that era then revising them I wonder what they'll use.

Last edited by password; Apr 22, 2008 at 2:45 PM.
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  #12  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2008, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by password View Post
Two questions; Whos going to build it? and if no one has been awarded this job; When is the bid date? Id love to build that thing, and live in ashville for a while. I always hear good things about the culture there.... do you know what kind of structure they plan to use? It being plans from that era then revising them I wonder what they'll use.
The developer who proposes to build this project is Tony Fraga, and his company is called the FIRC Group. If you have any questions about the technical aspects, or about anything else, I suggest you Google him and call them up. I did, and they're very accommodating, and for a change, this appears to be a developer who actually gives a shit about Asheville and isn't just trying to leach off the beauty and appeal that's already here without contributing anything to it. I called them and asked several questions and was delighted with most every answer they had to give -- and that's saying something.

You say you'd love to build this thing. If you're in any position at all to build something like this, I suggest you take a look at Douglas Ellington's 20-something story Art Deco courthouse that was originally planned to go next to City Hall. I've seen the plaster models of it and City Hall together and even for an Art Deco fiend like myself, it would have been Art Deco overload.

...Which is to say, somebody should build it. There are also at least three or four ten-plus story buildings from the 1920's that were planned but never built because the Depression hit. Someone ought to resurrect those plans and put those buildings up too, in my opinion.
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"To sustain the life of a large, modern city in this cloying, clinging heat is an amazing achievement. It is no wonder that the white men and women in Greenville walk with a slow, dragging pride, as if they had taken up a challenge and intended to defy it without end." -- Rebecca West for The New Yorker, 1947
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  #13  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2008, 5:25 AM
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sad that never came to fruition, i have always enjoyed the architecture in asheville, the city street scene is usually hit or miss as far as crowd of people but the architecture has always stayed the same due to good preservation. pretty skyline for such a small town, and this building looked pretty sizable. wait after having read this, is this a plan for a new "old" building with a modern glass building next to it? and the market is so down right now, a project this size in asheville would be a God send.
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Old Posted Aug 15, 2008, 1:49 AM
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I really like how it's designed like all the other historic buildings downtown so that it blends in. I wish Salem, OR would realize that you can build tall buildings without them being modern.
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  #15  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2008, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simms3 View Post
sad that never came to fruition, i have always enjoyed the architecture in asheville, the city street scene is usually hit or miss as far as crowd of people but the architecture has always stayed the same due to good preservation. pretty skyline for such a small town, and this building looked pretty sizable. wait after having read this, is this a plan for a new "old" building with a modern glass building next to it? and the market is so down right now, a project this size in asheville would be a God send.
I don't think it would really be a godsend. Asheville's not hurting for anything right now. Most people wish it would stop growing at all, in fact.

And yes -- it's a reworking of the historic tower that was meant to go on top of the Grove Arcade paired with a modern condo tower, atop a shopping arcade with an italianate facade on one side of the block and an art deco facade on the other side.
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"To sustain the life of a large, modern city in this cloying, clinging heat is an amazing achievement. It is no wonder that the white men and women in Greenville walk with a slow, dragging pride, as if they had taken up a challenge and intended to defy it without end." -- Rebecca West for The New Yorker, 1947
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