Regina | New Mosaic Stadium

[Scruff Bucket]

Originally Posted by Migs

My letter to the editor was in the Leaderpost this morning, I am not sure however how they came up with that title??

I notice in the print edition of today's L-P (Feb 3, 2011, page B-8), your letter is sharing the column with this letter by a person who would like to see the stadium located elsewhere in the city ...

http://www.leaderpost.com/Stadium+ri...626/story.html

Happy Chinese New Year! ... Year of the Rabbit (Feb. 3, 2011)!

[trueviking]

imagine if winnipeg had built a football stadium (and its parking) at the forks when the railyards adjacent to downtown were relocated.....what a lost opportunity that would have been.

just throwing that out there for those who think it is the best use for that type of land.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

imagine if winnipeg had built a football stadium (and its parking) at the forks when the railyards adjacent to downtown were relocated.....what a lost opportunity that would have been.

just throwing that out there for those who think it is the best use for that type of land.

Apples and oranges, you guys have a river flowing through your city. And we already have one of the largest and most beautiful urban parks (larger than Central Park in NYC) in North American 5 blocks south of downtown. And I will trust those in reputable urban revilitization organization like Office for Urbanism to those who want to use Winnipeg as a template on how to revitilize a downtown core, thanks. Also of note in regards to the Regina plan, notice in the parking plan in that there will be no new large parking areas in the development.

http://www.cicorp.sk.ca/assets/Docum...astructure.pdf

[CCF]

Originally Posted by trueviking

imagine if winnipeg had built a football stadium (and its parking) at the forks when the railyards adjacent to downtown were relocated.....what a lost opportunity that would have been.

just throwing that out there for those who think it is the best use for that type of land.

Surely you don't believe a suburban location would be better? What is the benefit that comes with that location? Ease of parking?

Ask Saskatoon how they feel about CUC (Sask. Place) being located halfway to North Battleford.

[Migs]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=352263

Interesting poll, I thought it would be alot more one-sided with those strongly opposed with the highest percentage (says its only 24%). Its not too often you can get 41% in favour of a govt spending initiative, I am looking at this as a very good sign.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by CCF

Surely you don't believe a suburban location would be better? What is the benefit that comes with that location? Ease of parking?

Ask Saskatoon how they feel about CUC (Sask. Place) being located halfway to North Battleford.

contrary to mig's blind assertion that the office for urbanism has found a way to be successful where nobody else ever has, but no football stadium has been a good generator for urban redevelopment anywhere in north america...not one.....their scale and use is not congruent with urban areas....hockey arenas are a somewhat different story as their use is much higher intensity....even their use as a catalyst is borderline.

btw, the forks isnt a park....when completed it will be a mixed use urban neighbourhood.....a stadium would never have been a catalyst for an urban market, 2 museums, residential development, a theatre, playgrounds etc...we transformed our rail yards into the biggest tourist attraction in the province.....will a football stadium do the same in regina?

there are many excellent examples of transforming railyards in cities....sacramento is a good one.

anyways...i wont argue.....i know this isnt a place for critical debate....rah rah...go riders.

[jigglysquishy]

I pray to god that an arena isn't build out of town. Talk about a completely bonehead move.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

contrary to mig's blind assertion that the office for urbanism has found a way to be successful where nobody else ever has,

Feel free to rebut any points that Office for Urbanism has stated, I provided the link for you previously.

but no football stadium has been a good generator for urban redevelopment anywhere in north america...

Can you provide evidence of a multipurpose facility such as the one being proposed in Regina that has been bad for urban revitilization?

not one.....their scale and use is not congruent with urban areas....hockey arenas are a somewhat different story as their use is much higher intensity....even their use as a catalyst is borderline.

Funny stuff, now you are saying there is a distinct difference between hockey arenas and indoor multipurpose facilities when in essence they serve similiar purposes. If you were talking about an outdoor football stadium in comparison to arenas then I could see your point. Look at the grounds of the proposed facility and if you don't think that type of project would be good for downtown then there is no use arguing with you. Fact is OforU, the Hotels association of Regina, Chamber of Commerce, and 99% of the businesses in the downtown corp and warehouse districts disagree with you.

btw, the forks isnt a park....when completed it will be a mixed use urban neighbourhood.....a stadium would never have been a catalyst for an urban market, 2 museums, residential development, a theatre, playgrounds etc...we transformed our rail yards into the biggest tourist attraction in the province.....will a football stadium do the same in regina?

Considering the stadium will be connected to one of the biggest tourist attractions in the province (Casino Regina), I would say yes. There are similarities between what happened in the forks and what is going to happen in Regina, just with a stadium. Remember in addition there will be residential development as well as hotels and commercial, as well as public squares. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

there are many excellent examples of transforming railyards in cities....sacramento is a good one.

anyways...i wont argue.....i know this isnt a place for critical debate....rah rah...go riders.

Hey this is a fun place for debate, its kinda of ironic however that the gross majority of the negativity is coming from people in Winnipeg about a project in Regina.

[Migs]

The push is on!!!!

Mayor Pat is now speaking out and saying alot of the same things I have said repeatedly in this thread (and the previous one). Perhaps I should be his speech writer? lol For the Global news report video, click on this link and then the icon stating 'State of the city address'

http://www.globalregina.com/video/index.html

Here is the story in text.

http://www.globalregina.com/Mayor+Fi...566/story.html

Mayor Pat Fiacco takes aim at Stadium project
Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:17 PM

It is an issue that has divided the community. The proposed domed stadium comes with a hefty price tag totalling $430 million, and debate has centred on whether that money could be better spent elsewhere.

It’s an issue thatMayor Pat Fiacco took direct aim at during his annual state of the city address, attempting to rebrand it from simply a stadium project, to something much bigger.

“People got to quit thinking about a football stadium, and start thinking about an inner city redevelopment,” Fiacco said after delivering his speech.

In total, the project calls for the redevelopment of 46 acres of land. It would include hotels and more retail space on the CP Rail yards, as well as a new affordable housing neighbourhood where Mosaic Stadium currently sits.

“I’m more concerned about the opportunity for homes for families,” said Fiacco. “How would the public react to losing an opportunity to build some wonderful homes in the inner city that’s desperately needed?”

For the project to move forward as proposed though, the federal government will need to contribute up to 25 percent of the funding. The proposal was sent to Ottawa nearly a year ago, and still no commitment of funding has come forward. The minister in charge says he is starting to see some movement.

“What we’re finding now is the P-3 Canada Fund is asking us very specific questions about our proposal,” said Saskatchewan Gaming Corporation Minister Ken Cheveldayoff. “For a period of time we didn’t hear anything, and now we’re hearing very specific questions asked.”

The federal government has made it clear though that it will not fund a project that will solely be used by professional sports teams. So, the message that Fiacco is spreading is being echoed by the province.

“The challenge for all of us is to explain to the people that it’s not just an entertainment facility,” said Cheveldayoff. “It is about urban redevelopment, it is about affordable housing.”

Something the city plans to move forward on, whether or not the federal government is on board.

“We need to look at a number of options that would include federal funding, and that would not include federal funding,” said Fiacco. “We’re not just going to lay low on this one; we have to continue to work towards this.”

© Copyright (c) CW Media Inc.

[Migs]

Wow, more Migs-like rhetoric.

Mayor Pat Fiacco focused on revitalizing Regina neighbourhoods, not building stadium
Fiacco says project about homes for residents, not just new home for the Riders

Reported By Sarah Mills
Posted February 3, 2011 - 3:24pm

Regina Mayor Pat Fiacco made it quite clear at the annual State of the City address that moving forward with an entertainment complex north of downtown is about revitalizing two pockets of land and not just a new stadium for the Roughriders.

"We have an opportunity to develop 46-acres of major infill land into a major housing development," said Fiacco.

He believes the question shouldn't be what should we do about Mosaic Stadium, but what should we do with this land and this opportunity. Fiacco contends it can be done with or without federal help, just like projects in Regina have often been achieved without money from Ottawa.

But he adds it has to be balanced against other priorities like infrastructure.

http://www.newstalk980.com/story/20110203/46601

[Migs]

http://www.leaderpost.com/sports/May...ments#comments

Mayor asks residents to continue developing Regina's downtown in 'state of the city' address

REGINA — Mere hours after Regina was listed as Canada's third-fastest-growing city, Mayor Pat Fiacco asked residents to continue that growth with a dramatic redevelopment of the downtown core's northern rim: a package of low- and medium-cost housing plus the long-discussed multipurpose entertainment complex.

The mayor's annual "state of the city" address started off apologetically, though, with Fiacco admitting inconvenience had been caused by Victoria Park festival plaza construction and the conversion of downtown streets to two-way traffic.

Delivering his 11th state of the city address, Fiacco soon changed gears and offered a long list of past projects that, while once controversial, now are appreciated: Evraz Place redevelopment, revitalization of Wascana Centre, Harbour Landing, and the Global Transportation Hub.

"I would rather be criticized for making a decision today that is the right one in the long run than be criticized tomorrow for making a decision that, while popular at the time, was the wrong one in the future," he told 700 people at the Queensbury Convention Centre.

Fiacco's 40-minute speech ranged over topics like last week's infrastructure summit to new initiatives in transit and waste-handling to the half-dozen building projects in downtown Regina and its fringes.

But one of the major elements was the housing-entertainment initiative that potentially could see new housing built on the land on which Mosaic Stadium now sits — providing it can be replaced by a new structure for the Saskatchewan Roughriders plus entertainment and recreational events.

He held out the possibility it could become a home to a "centre of excellence for amateur sports" and possibly a national amateur sports team in the same way the national volleyball team was based here 20 years ago.

"This is more than about a new entertainment facility — this is about revitalizing Regina's inner city," said Fiacco, who said the ambitious project builds on advice from last week's infrastructure summit. "We heard that we need to do things differently and be innovative. And this is the perfect opportunity."

Fiacco later told reporters the federal government "might not choose" to put money in the project, but added, "that doesn't mean that we stop doing what we're doing."

Thursday's speech announced no new developments, but instead listed "good-news" events in 2011, like the chamber of commerce's 125th anniversary, the centennials of Regina Transit and the University of Regina, the opening of a new branch library and the dispatch of the Best Buddies Blues Band to a Special Olympics performance in Athens

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by CCF

Surely you don't believe a suburban location would be better? What is the benefit that comes with that location? Ease of parking?

Ask Saskatoon how they feel about CUC (Sask. Place) being located halfway to North Battleford.

Ugh. You really do jump to conclusions. Why don't you have something constructive to say on this. Other than jumping to suburban conclusions, which in Regina is where a vast majority of our commercial development has and is still going. Read Jacobs, or Kunstler, or Lynch. There's lots of stuff out there on why this might not be a good idea.

CUC is a terrible location as is the Palladium (or whatever they call it in Ottawa), but I agree with Trueviking that I'd rather see the stadium built elsewhere. We have an opportunity to create some more vibrancy in the warehouse district and increase pedestrian traffic by reintroducing some of the grid system in the area, but the stadium won't do that. We need uses that are diverse in users and in times of usage. A stadium doesn't usually fit that bill and acts as a rather large barrier for pedestrian traffic.

I want a new stadium. I used to get very excited about downtown locations, but in this case, I'm not so sure. I'd really like to see something else done there.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

Ugh. You really do jump to conclusions. Why don't you have something constructive to say on this. Other than jumping to suburban conclusions, which in Regina is where a vast majority of our commercial development has and is still going. Read Jacobs, or Kunstler, or Lynch. There's lots of stuff out there on why this might not be a good idea.

CUC is a terrible location as is the Palladium (or whatever they call it in Ottawa), but I agree with Trueviking that I'd rather see the stadium built elsewhere. We have an opportunity to create some more vibrancy in the warehouse district and increase pedestrian traffic by reintroducing some of the grid system in the area, but the stadium won't do that. We need uses that are diverse in users and in times of usage. A stadium doesn't usually fit that bill and acts as a rather large barrier for pedestrian traffic.

I want a new stadium. I used to get very excited about downtown locations, but in this case, I'm not so sure. I'd really like to see something else done there.

I seem to recall some people making similar arguments when the old train station was renovated into a Casino in the early 90's. We all know how that cashcow has turned out. In my opinion the project as is will increase pedestrian traffic as there will be walkways, pedestrian bridges, city squares, retail, and residential. Alot of the things you are asking for is infact in the plans, just with an indoor entertainment centre right in the middle. (museum/stadium/theatre, meh whats the difference).

That said, now that I think about it, I wonder if the footprint of the two museums in the forks that trueviking mentioned above is of comparible size to that of the facility in Regina? Can one not make the case that these two museums in the forks act as a large barrier for pedestrian traffic? nah, I didn't think so.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

Ugh. You really do jump to conclusions. Why don't you have something constructive to say on this. Other than jumping to suburban conclusions, which in Regina is where a vast majority of our commercial development has and is still going. Read Jacobs, or Kunstler, or Lynch. There's lots of stuff out there on why this might not be a good idea.

CUC is a terrible location as is the Palladium (or whatever they call it in Ottawa), but I agree with Trueviking that I'd rather see the stadium built elsewhere. We have an opportunity to create some more vibrancy in the warehouse district and increase pedestrian traffic by reintroducing some of the grid system in the area, but the stadium won't do that. We need uses that are diverse in users and in times of usage. A stadium doesn't usually fit that bill and acts as a rather large barrier for pedestrian traffic.

I want a new stadium. I used to get very excited about downtown locations, but in this case, I'm not so sure. I'd really like to see something else done there.

I am nearing the end of my Masters Degree in Planning. I've read Jacobs and Kunstler once or twice before.

Exactly what conclusion am I jumping to? I responded briefly to the fact that some believe a more suburban location is of some sort of benefit. If you agree that much of the retail base has elected to locate outside the core, and you agree that this is a negative occurrence, then why advocate on behalf of more functions locating outside the downtown?

One of the largest impediments to downtown Regina is that the majority of "destination venues" are located outside downtown, such as the Mackenzie Art Gallery, Museums, Conexus Arts Centre. These are the types of destinations that bring people downtown. These are the types of destinations that we need downtown. To allow another significant destination to locate outside the core would be another lost opportunity.

If anyone believes for a second that the Warehouse district is somehow going to develop into Vancouver's Gastown overnight, then I'm sorry, but that's not the case. The Warehouse district needs a large scale development, such as a stadium, to inject life into the area. Much of the adaptive re-use has been completed in the area, and now we sit with a mixture of fantastic heritage buildings and low quality light industrial. A project such as this stadium has the ability to increase property values and interest in the area so that residential and commercial begin to push industrial out of the area.

Again, what is the benefit to building a stadium at the fringe of the city? It's ease of parking and a reduction in traffic congestion. Any economic benefit would be lost. Instead of patrons at the Rider game electing to mingle downtown or along Dewdney Avenue at Bushwakkers, they would instead choose to pick up A&W in Davidson on their way back to Saskatoon.

I ask anyone who is against this location, to prescribe a better venue. The only other viable option in my mind is the current Mosaic Stadium site. Then again, I believe that re-developing that site into a mixed use project will better serve the needs of North Central than a stadium will. That neighbourhood needs a grocery store, doctors offices and other essential services.

Some consideration might be given to a location at U of R, but I believe that's doing a disservice to varsity sports teams. A venue of this size is way too large for university sports and the university should work towards building a venue of a more appropriate scale.

Truly, this leaves the railyard as the superior option. Again, given what we have seen of the proposed design there will be no on-site parking. If the project is designed appropriately, then those linkages between the Downtown and Warehouse district can be created. The stadium will will not encompass the entire parcel and there is still room for other uses such as residential, commercial, etc. But truly, shouldn't we be intent on filling in the existing gaps that dot downtown Regina before we start to concern ourselves with developing the railyard into residential?

I am not sold on spending upwards of $400 million on a stadium, I believe there may be better uses for that money. However, if it goes ahead, then I'll embrace this decision as an opportunity to rejuvenate both Downtown and the Warehouse District. Where I do experience frustration, is at the thought that this project would be better served at a suburban location. Again, I repeat, this would lead to no benefits.

For those who believe a downtown sports venue cannot be beneficial in revitalizing an area, I leave you with a quote regarding Columbus, Ohio's Arena District in the downtown.

“The Arena District has had a significant impact on the revitalization of downtown Columbus, bringing the first new multi-use projects to the central business district in many years,” said Brian J. Ellis, president of Nationwide Realty Investors (NRI).

“Our goal has been to create a new and exciting place for people who want to be downtown. And we've accomplished that. Our entertainment venues draw large crowds, office space has filled up, and the residential component is a success.”

Since its creation in 2000, the Arena District has introduced 3,600 jobs and 40 new or relocated businesses to the heart of Columbus. Once- barren real estate is now a center for round-the- clock activity.

http://www.iedconline.org/downloads/smart_growth.pdf

[trueviking]

CCF...its surprising that you could have any understanding of jane jacobs and believe that a football stadium can be used as a catalyst for urban revitalization....it is promised with almost every stadium and arena built in north america but there is almost no evidence of it ever succeeding....occasionally arenas find some success because they are used so much more often.

while i completely agree that locating attractions in the core is important....and the ones you list are very appropriate, but a stadium is so large that it has no ability to have a relationship with the sidewalk or its community...its use is high intensity for short periods of time..this does not provide the economic patterns that spin off business needs.

i am not saying that this stadium shouldnt be in the city centre...i am just saying that the hopes that it will spur the regeneration of downtown, or be the cornerstone of a new urban development is not likely.....it has almost never happened before and i fail to see why this stadium is different than any other.

maybe there is no better use for the property and maybe urban revitalization is not an important goal for this project...im simply saying that selling it on that virtue flies in the face of the practical reality.

[thefourthtower]

putting this thing on the outskirts is the dummest thing ever, its a winter city people want to be where the action is not in some remote area does not make one bit of sense

[Ruckus]

Mayor Pat Fiacco takes aim at Stadium project
Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:17 PM

[...]

“People got to quit thinking about a football stadium, and start thinking about an inner city redevelopment,” Fiacco said after delivering his speech.

In total, the project calls for the redevelopment of 46 acres of land. It would include hotels and more retail space on the CP Rail yards, as well as a new affordable housing neighbourhood where Mosaic Stadium currently sits.

“I’m more concerned about the opportunity for homes for families,” said Fiacco. “How would the public react to losing an opportunity to build some wonderful homes in the inner city that’s desperately needed?”

[...]

The federal government has made it clear though that it will not fund a project that will solely be used by professional sports teams. So, the message that Fiacco is spreading is being echoed by the province.

“The challenge for all of us is to explain to the people that it’s not just an entertainment facility,” said Cheveldayoff. “It is about urban redevelopment, it is about affordable housing.”

[...]

© Copyright (c) CW Media Inc.

I didn't think this project could get any more complicated. The talking points come across as very insincere. Now our goal is affordable housing for families? I guess we'll need a report to outline those options as well.

Where's a magic wand when you need one...oh right, there's an election in November.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

CCF...its surprising that you could have any understanding of jane jacobs and believe that a football stadium can be used as a catalyst for urban revitalization....it is promised with almost every stadium and arena built in north america but there is almost no evidence of it ever succeeding....occasionally arenas find some success because they are used so much more often.

while i completely agree that locating attractions in the core is important....and the ones you list are very appropriate, but a stadium is so large that it has no ability to have a relationship with the sidewalk or its community...its use is high intensity for short periods of time..this does not provide the economic patterns that spin off business needs.

i am not saying that this stadium shouldnt be in the city centre...i am just saying that the hopes that it will spur the regeneration of downtown, or be the cornerstone of a new urban development is not likely.....it has almost never happened before and i fail to see why this stadium is different than any other.

maybe there is no better use for the property and maybe urban revitalization is not an important goal for this project...im simply saying that selling it on that virtue flies in the face of the practical reality.

You still haven't told me what the difference is between putting two large museums into a revitilization plan (the forks in Wpg) and an indoor multi-purpose entertainment facility (Regina)? And I am not sure why you continuously try to persuade us that you are right and the most powerful people in Saskatchewan are wrong. You do understand that this facility has the potential to bring almost half a million people annually (that otherwise wouldn't be there) into the downtown corp. How can you actually try and spin that into being anything but a great thing for the downtown and warehouse district? And like I said already (but you conveniently avoided), there are alot of similiar aspects between the forks in Winnipeg and the new development in Regina. (ie retail, condos, hotels, restaurants, public squares, playgrounds, etc). Take away your two museums and replace it with a multipurpose entertainment centre and you have bascially the same type of development.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by Ruckus

I didn't think this project could get any more complicated. The talking points come across as very insincere. Now our goal is affordable housing for families? I guess we'll need a report to outline those options as well.

Where's a magic wand when you need one...oh right, there's an election in November.

The stakeholders get blasted for saying its just a stadium, and now some are blasting them for trying to make a great project even greater. What is that saying, "there is no cure for hopelessness."

Fact of the matter is this, lowincome housing is very much needed in this province, and what better place to build an inner city project for lowincome earners than a residential location (Mosaic Stadium) that is dire need of revitilizing to begin with. The target hasn't changed as we've been saying that this is the goal since this whole debate began, some people just choose not to listen.

[jlousa]

I recommend this thread gets archived once we're done with it, so that we can come back to it in 5,10yrs and laugh at it all over again.