[Moncton] Old Moncton High School Redevelopment (under construction)

[Good2go]

ToriWeldonCBC‏ @TWeldonCBC · 3m3 minutes ago
Gallant announcing building being sold to Heritage Developments, owned by the Carpenter family.

ToriWeldonCBC‏ @TWeldonCBC · 2m2 minutes ago
Gallant, 'this has taken longer than some of you would have liked, but we got it done.'

ToriWeldonCBC‏ @TWeldonCBC · 2m2 minutes ago
Deal reached in principle, heritage developments will buy building and part of field for $1 Million.

ToriWeldonCBC‏ @TWeldonCBC · now5 seconds ago
Gallant says building will be saved and redeveloped, MH Renaissance will collaborate on redevelopment

[MonctonRad]

Confirmed - Library is not moving to MH35

[Good2go]

ToriWeldonCBC‏ @TWeldonCBC · 10m10 minutes ago
Denis Cochrane of MH35 started on project 3.5 years ago, he says, 'we didn't think it would take this long to get here.'

ToriWeldonCBC‏ @TWeldonCBC · 3m3 minutes ago
Cochrane, 'it was never our intention to cause any division in our community.'

ToriWeldonCBC‏ @TWeldonCBC · 2m2 minutes ago
Cochrane, 'MH35 has removed any consideration of moving the library.'

ToriWeldonCBC‏ @TWeldonCBC · 5s6 seconds ago
Cochrane, 'This today is a resurgo moment'

[Patapouf26]

Radio Canada integral (link) :

Moncton High sera achetée pour 1 million de dollars

L'école Moncton High et son terrain d'athlétisme seront vendus à l'organisme Heritage Developments, selon une entente de principe avec le gouvernement du Nouveau-Brunswick.
Heritage Developments s'est engagé à préserver les éléments architecturaux du bâtiment et à louer les espaces culturels disponibles, comme le gymnase et l'auditorium, à des organismes sans but lucratif œuvrant dans le secteur des arts et de la culture.

Le promoteur s'associera à MH Renaissance pour rénover le bâtiment.

Plusieurs propositions avaient été lancées pour la nouvelle mission de l'ancienne école secondaire. MH Renaissance avait d'abord demandé à y déménager la bibliothèque publique de Moncton. Ce premier projet était controversé en raison de la récente rénovation des locaux qui abritent actuellement la bibliothèque.

Un promoteur immobilier avait quant à lui proposé d'y installer une nouvelle station de la Gendarmerie royale du Canada.

Plus de détails à venir

So:

• Sale of old school (building and athletics field) to Heritage Developments
• Collaboration with MH Renaissance for building renovations
  
  They must:

• Preserve architectural elements
• Rent available cultural spaces (gymnasium and auditorium) to non-profit arts and culture orgs.

More details to follow... Nothing yet on TD Bank.

Edit: CBC News link

[MonctonRad]

Well, Heritage Developments has a long and distinguished history of redeveloping heritage properties in the city, so this is a good news announcement. The three Gothic pillars of Moncton (MHS, Castle Manor & Assumption Cathedral) are all now safe.

Main takeaways from the announcement.
- auditorium & gymnasium to be rented to "non profit artistic organizations" (read Atlantic Ballet Theatre).
- city library not moving to MH35
- rest of building to be renovated, most likely for commercial uses (therefore TD customer contact centre remains in play). I'm sure Dick Carpenter's group wouldn't be doing this if they didn't have assured tenant(s).
- the architectural integrity of the building has been guaranteed.

All in all, a good news announcement all around.

I wonder if the plans will include the lobby addition in front of the main entrance that the MH35 group wanted to install? I'm of two minds on that one. I understand why MH35 wanted it, but the most architecturally interesting portion of the old MHS facade was the main entry. It would seem counterproductive to cover it up.......

[L'homard]

I stopped in at the event and the photos they were displaying still had the big glass enclosures in the front of the building. Which might or might not mean much.

[MonctonRad]

Here is Mayor Dawn Arnold's FB comment concerning the provincial announcement regarding the former Moncton High School building:

Congratulations to Heritage Development for acquiring the former Moncton High School! This is great news for this iconic heritage building, the residents of Moncton and, of course, the many MHS alumni.
This is a private sector developer with experience in heritage and historic buildings here in our city with the redevelopment of the Marven’s building, the former Eaton’s building – now Heritage Court – and the Capitol Theatre, and this kind of track record is important to the successful repurposing of the project.
I am pleased that Provincial officials have held true to their word and took responsibility for the more than 80-year old building. Minister Bill Fraser said that they would handle the process, and they did. I would also like to personally thank Minister Cathy Rogers for her commitment and support.
This was the third of three major heritage buildings in our community that were the most vulnerable and it is a great day to see that in addition to the Cathedral and Castle Manor, the former Moncton High School will see a new purpose. #MovingMonctonForward

[MonctonRad]

The more I think of it, the more confused I am regarding how the "arts and cultural centre" component of this project will be funded.

- the owner of the entire MHS building will be Heritage Developments.
- MH35 is, I believe, now just operating in an advisory capacity to Heritage Developments WRT the auditorium and gymnasium space. This may evolve down the road into some form of managerial relationship regarding the artistic space.
- when MH35 was proposing to own and operate the whole MHS site, it was their plan to use monies obtained from leasing out the remainder of the building to help fund operations of the arts centre (in addition to lease payments from the Atlantic Ballet Theatre).
- I'm not sure if this is still the case. Heritage Developments does not appear to plan to operate the entire building on a not-for-profit basis (agreeing only to leasing the auditorium/gymnasium portions of the building for non profit artistic pursuits).
- if this is the case, then the arts centre will operate at a loss unless there are additional funds made available from federal/provincial/municipal sources. I doubt that the Atlantic Ballet Theatre will be able to fund the entire arts centre though ti's lease payments. Sure, there will be other sources of (rental) revenues, but without financial support from income generated the rest of the building, I think ongoing government support is inevitable........

[L'homard]

Heritage Developments does not appear to plan to operate the entire building on a not-for-profit basis (agreeing only to leasing the auditorium/gymnasium portions of the building for non profit artistic pursuits).

That is correct, sir.
Many media outlets seem to have mucked up this point, especially those reporters who are saying or impllying that most of the building is going to be an arts centre, which is not the case at all. Having attended the announcement, I can't figure out how a significant number of media outlets got this aspect completely wrong. Heritage Developments isn't a charity. This is very much a for-profit venture for them.

I admit I'm at a loss as to how the not-for-profit arts sector will find the means to take advantage of the auditorium/gym, as this was barely mentioned, if at all, at the announcement. But they were very clear, the bulk of the building will be offices. Geez to hear the CBC (and some others) tell it, it's going to be turned into one great big giant arts space. That is not the case at all. For an accurate report on what was announced, I find l"Acadie Nouvelle and the T&T got it exactly correct. Most of the others are rife with misunderstandings and outright bizarre statements that they appear to have pulled out of their arses.

[MonctonRad]

Here are some updated facts regarding MH35's relationship with Heritage Developments (from the T&T today)

1)- MH35 will lease the auditorium/gymnasium wing from Heritage Developments.
2)- MH35 will be responsible for all costs involved in renovations for the new arts & cultural space.
3)- The renovations will likely cost in the order of $5.2M
4)- MH35 (as a non profit) will be looking towards various levels of government for funding for the renovations (as well as charitable fundraising)
5)- It is not set in stone whether or not the glass box in front of the main entrance will be built. This will require negotiations with Heritage Developments and also the Moncton Heritage Review Board (I imagine Ross Carpenters group don't much care what MH35 does as far as the atrium is concerned. I presume the harder nut to crack will be the Heritage Review Board).
6)- Dennis Cochrane states that ongoing costs of operating the arts centre will be covered by leasing out the facility to various arts groups. This will of course include the Atlantic Ballet Theatre, but apparently a film society has expressed interest as well, and a theatre company has also expressed interest as well (this is good news, but I doubt that lease payments alone will be enough to cover ongoing operational costs. I imagine government will again be asked to help fund ongoing costs).
7)- A restaurant in the city as well as coffee shop operations have also been in contact about setting up operations in the atrium (if built). This of course would also help with ongoing costs of operation.
8)- As for the remainder of the building, Ross Carpenter is remaining coy about whom the commercial tenants will be, but apparently there were TD Bank officials in attendance at the announcement ceremony yesterday (although not in an official capacity).

Again, if MH35 had been chosen to buy the building and operate both the commercial and cultural components of the operation, profits from the commercial side would have been used to fund the operations of the arts centre. Under the current arrangement between Heritage Developments and MH35, this will not be the case. The taxpayer is at risk with this new paradigm. This does not mean I am necessarily displeased with Heritage Developments taking over the building - they are a fine company with a distinguished reputation in heritage restorations. It's just that I hate to see the city of Moncton on the hook again for a decision made by the provincial government. This seems to happen a lot around here.........

[Patapouf26]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Here are some updated facts regarding MH35's relationship with Heritage Developments (from the T&T today)

1)- MH35 will lease the auditorium/gymnasium wing from Heritage Developments.
2)- MH35 will be responsible for all costs involved in renovations for the new arts & cultural space.
3)- The renovations will likely cost in the order of $5.2M
4)- MH35 (as a non profit) will be looking towards various levels of government for funding for the renovations (as well as charitable fundraising)
5)- It is not set in stone whether or not the glass box in front of the main entrance will be built. This will require negotiations with Heritage Developments and also the Moncton Heritage Review Board (I imagine Ross Carpenters group don't much care what MH35 does as far as the atrium is concerned. I presume the harder nut to crack will be the Heritage Review Board).
6)- Dennis Cochrane states that ongoing costs of operating the arts centre will be covered by leasing out the facility to various arts groups. This will of course include the Atlantic Ballet Theatre, but apparently a film society has expressed interest as well, and a theatre company has also expressed interest as well (this is good news, but I doubt that lease payments alone will be enough to cover ongoing operational costs. I imagine government will again be asked to help fund ongoing costs).
7)- A restaurant in the city as well as coffee shop operations have also been in contact about setting up operations in the atrium (if built). This of course would also help with ongoing costs of operation.
8)- As for the remainder of the building, Ross Carpenter is remaining coy about whom the commercial tenants will be, but apparently there were TD Bank officials in attendance at the announcement ceremony yesterday (although not in an official capacity).

Again, if MH35 had been chosen to buy the building and operate both the commercial and cultural components of the operation, profits from the commercial side would have been used to fund the operations of the arts centre. Under the current arrangement between Heritage Developments and MH35, this will not be the case. The taxpayer is at risk with this new paradigm. This does not mean I am necessarily displeased with Heritage Developments taking over the building - they are a fine company with a distinguished reputation in heritage restorations. It's just that I hate to see the city of Moncton on the hook again for a decision made by the provincial government. This seems to happen a lot around here.........

I'm trying to remember if the original MH35 proposal's success rested upon the moving of the library. If I remember correctly, had they won the bidding outright, they would have still gone forward without it. So, in principle, nothing has changed except that they'll need to find a replacement for the library (which they were OK with). So your fourth point would have been a reality either way... And it's difficult to predict if the tenants' rent will cover costs or not. One would assume they've done their due diligence. Initially, did they (MH35) intend to rent out to commercial interests? If so, and with all you've said, you may certainly be right to approach this deal with a degree of skepticism...

[L'homard]

We must also consider that for MH35 to acquire that building would have required a seven-figure one-time injection of public tax money.
Instead, under the current deal, it is the public getting a seven-figure one-time injection of private money.
That's a HUGE deal for taxpayers. We come out $1,000,000 ahead. When is the last time we saw something like this happen for an 80-year-old condemned government building?
I'm not concerned over the current players asking the feds and province for money to renovate the building or audditorium under existing grant programs, which is their plan.
Why wouldn't they apply? That's why those programs have existed all these decades.

[MonctonRad]

Very good points, and of course the renovated MHS will also generate significant property tax revenue (at least six figure) on a yearly ongoing basis, and this of course could be used to help fund the grants the MH35 group will be looking for.

It's important to keep in mind that this section of east Moncton is gradually becoming a cultural district within the city. Not only will it include the MH35 arts & culture centre (and the Atlantic Ballet Theatre), it also contains the Centre Culturel Aberdeen, Theatre l'Escaouette and Resurgo Place (including the Moncton Museum). Ristaurante Baci Italia is just across the street. This is getting to be a serious critical mass of like minded enterprises, and who's to say we won't see more restaurants, bistros and galleries setting upon the area. This could mean even more tax revenue for the city, which could be ploughed back into MH35...........

Originally Posted by Patapouf26

I'm trying to remember if the original MH35 proposal's success rested upon the moving of the library. If I remember correctly, had they won the bidding outright, they would have still gone forward without it. So, in principle, nothing has changed except that they'll need to find a replacement for the library (which they were OK with). So your fourth point would have been a reality either way... And it's difficult to predict if the tenants' rent will cover costs or not. One would assume they've done their due diligence. Initially, did they (MH35) intend to rent out to commercial interests? If so, and with all you've said, you may certainly be right to approach this deal with a degree of skepticism...

MH35 would have rented out the remainder of MHS to pay for the costs of the arts centre. Their first choice was the city library (there is the mistaken assumption out there that the library pays only $1 a year in rent at the Blue Cross Centre, but they also pay a substantial charge for "common area maintenance", including the atrium. The rent that MH35 wanted from the library (if they had moved) would have been similar to what they are currently paying at Blue Cross). Regardless, MH35 were willing to look at any option to generate rental income to cover the cost of running the arts centre.

[L'homard]

Exactly.
A lot of people - too many people - believe MH35 was going to live or die on getting the library to move to MHS. That was never the case. It was just one option among many.
MH35 said this a few times when it became apparent the library issue was divisive. I dunno if they didn't say it enough, or the news media didn't trumpet this point loud enough or what, but a lot of folks ended up convinced the MH35 deal hinged on moving the library - which was never the case.

Now that the library reamains on Main Street, I await council's decision on what to do with it once Slate kicks them out of the Blue Cross Centre in a few years.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by L'homard

Now that the library reamains on Main Street, I await council's decision on what to do with it once Slate kicks them out of the Blue Cross Centre in a few years.

Ahem:



If Slate does kick the library out (for example to provide additional space for Blue Cross to expand), I seriously think something like this will transpire.

The city is already ruminating about relocating the city market and developing a street grid south of Main Street. The building in the rendering above is a proposal for a combined city market (on the ground floor) and a public library in the upper portion of the building.

I really, really think something like this might happen, combined with a new RCMP HQ next to the law courts. This would essentially complete Downing Street, allowing phase two of the street reconstruction to occur. I can almost smell all of this happening........

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Ahem:



If Slate does kick the library out (for example to provide additional space for Blue Cross to expand), I seriously think something like this will transpire.

The city is already ruminating about relocating the city market and developing a street grid south of Main Street. The building in the rendering above is a proposal for a combined city market (on the ground floor) and a public library in the upper portion of the building.

I really, really think something like this might happen, combined with a new RCMP HQ next to the law courts. This would essentially complete Downing Street, allowing phase two of the street reconstruction to occur. I can almost smell all of this happening........

I agree with you, I believe their may be something a foot in this here and that's why this render is done so well. It is something the probably have had in the works for awhile. It is about time the city got a new market and library. Crossed fingers we hear something in the next year or so.

[pierremoncton]

Slate can't remove the library. It was originally a 65-year lease, with ~40 years left. The city also just renovated a couple of years ago; they're staying put for a while.

[L'homard]

Sorry my friend, to me that's just a dream that someone put on paper, at this point anyway.

I do believe the provincial portion of the library's lease expires in the next few years. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, which I might be. My old memory banks ain't what they used to be.

[MonctonRad]

from Mayor Dawn Arnold's FB page (regarding today's meeting of the city council):

Our first item was a request for a rezoning of the former MHS by Heritage Properties. They would like to rezone to "Mixed Use" from "Community Use". Council learned about the four phases of the project and that there will be a public presentation on September 18 and a public hearing on November 6 (with a public information session planned for sometime before this date).

It will be interesting to see what will be presented on September 18th.

[emad]

More details in an article from l'Acadie Nouvelle:

https://www.acadienouvelle.com/actua...centre-dappel/