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  #121  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 12:52 AM
Andrea Andrea is offline
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  #122  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:00 AM
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We have met the enemy and he is us. I see Bush as one who limited the damage.
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  #123  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:05 AM
BabydaddyATL BabydaddyATL is offline
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You got to do better than that Fiorenza. I have videos showing that McCain is retarded and a liar. Your "essay" was the babble of an author who couldn't write a factual story and did the FOX News short cut and made things up. Do you really believe that Obama thinks he is the Messiah? Furthermore, do you think the closeted lesbian Oprah Winfrey is even religious.

OK Fiorenza, poke holes in my videos.
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  #124  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
We have met the enemy and he is us. I see Bush as one who limited the damage.
Wow. So Bush wasn't responsible for the increase in government, the abuse of Habeas Corpus or the Iraq war, but in fact we were? Amazing. I guess I am seeing the logical guiding the 25% who approve of Bush.
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  #125  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:15 AM
testarossa50 testarossa50 is offline
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For a moment I was under the impression that some momentous news had broken on the Beltline. Oh, how I was wrong...just like Obama about the Surge!
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  #126  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:17 AM
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For a moment I was under the impression that some momentous news had broken on the Beltline. Oh, how I was wrong...just like Obama about the Surge!
ba boom ching!
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  #127  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:20 AM
BabydaddyATL BabydaddyATL is offline
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Lord have mercy, Fiorenza. The Bush administration and Republican controlled Congress have vastly exceeded anything in history for spending money and expanding the government. The waste, inefficiency, pork and financial scandal are orders of magnitude beyond anything this nation (or any nation) has ever seen. I supported Bush in 2000 because he promised not to do the very things he has done.

Not only that, this out of control spending was accompanied by tax cuts for the wealthy, and it largely utilized borrowed money which will have to be repaid -- with interest -- by future generations. To foreign nations. Many of whom are our avowed competitors and enemies.

And the war on Iraq is NOT in any way, shape or form consistent with conservative political principles. It's a radical and unprecedented move for this nation.

Nor was gutting our critical science programs consistent with conservative values. Or limiting our personal liberties and increasing government intrusion. Or back-burnering our energy problems and the stewardship of our land.

How can you argue that we need more of this? We'll be lucky to survive what's been done already.
I LOVE YOU.

Seriously, who the hell is the enemy? We attacked a sovereign nation. They were not attacking us or our allies. Also, we have thrown the constitution completely out the window. The Congress has subpoenaed the President's administration and they tell the Congress to screw off. What would the Republicans have said if Bill Clinton said F U when he was called to testify. But I guess it is more important to find out that the former President was having "sexual relations with that lady." As opposed to outing of a CIA agent that said out and said the Presidents= was concocting information to go to war. Now, we have this shadow government that is completely above the law (BlackWater) see article below. Suddenly, I feel like Saddam was not that bad.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080623/scahill?
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  #128  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:21 AM
BabydaddyATL BabydaddyATL is offline
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Originally Posted by testarossa50 View Post
For a moment I was under the impression that some momentous news had broken on the Beltline. Oh, how I was wrong...just like Obama about the Surge!
Q2 Beltine Report

Not a damn thing is happening. Our state lacks leadership and our country is gettin' hit, head on by a sh!tstorm of epic proportions.

If you need any further explanations please PM me. Peace!
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  #129  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:24 AM
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  #130  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:26 AM
Andrea Andrea is offline
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Last edited by Andrea; Jun 9, 2008 at 1:46 AM.
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  #131  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:32 AM
BabydaddyATL BabydaddyATL is offline
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Who is this "us", Fiorenza? Bush and the Republicans simply ran amok. We were in balanced budget situation when they took over, and they literally had their hands on all the levers. No one made them spend at unprecedented levels. No one made them pass out hundreds of billions in pork, no-bid contracts, secret deals, and pathetically managed programs. No one forced them to curtail personal liberties or expand the intrusiveness of government. No one forced them to venture into an ill-conceived foreign war against someone who has never attacked us, which was supposed to last a few months but is still going full tilt five years later, and which has already cost at least $500 billion more than projected. No one forced them to gut science programs, ignore the looming energy problem, or borrow hundreds of billions of dollars from foreign nations.

I'm not part of that "us", and they weren't serving any of my interests. I oppose each and every one of those things. And I'm not going to take the heat for it now.
Andrea, the oil will pay for everything. It has to be true because Georginia Bush said so and he has never lied to us. Can't take the heat...get out of the kitchen. Sorry Andrea, I had to say that.
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  #132  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:33 AM
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We were in balanced budget situation when they took over
The federal debt increased every year under Clinton.
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  #133  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:33 AM
Dragonheart8588 Dragonheart8588 is offline
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The funny thing is that I'm trying get a work permit to work in Canada (Vancouver) and possibly permanent residency then citizenship.
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  #134  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:34 AM
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No one made them pass out hundreds of billions in pork
I haven't seen Obama say he wouldn't do the same thing.
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  #135  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:50 AM
BabydaddyATL BabydaddyATL is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
The federal debt increased every year under Clinton.
Seriously Fiorenza, stop reading all of the conservative bullshit! Here are the facts. Prove them wrong and then tell me who was the best President, or god help us, is the best President?

The U.S. is starting to look like it is entering just such a death spiral. It is foretold not simply by the large and growing deficits, nor by the fact that their carrying costs will rise quickly as interest rates rise. Rather, it is the fact that these trends are becoming irreversible, a structural part of the U.S. economy.

When the ultimate collapse will occur, whether it comes with a bang or a whimper, how it will be triggered, and how severe it will be are as yet unknown. But as Herbert Stein, Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under Richard Nixon was fond of saying, “Things that can’t go on forever, don’t.”

The first signs of impending trouble are the exploding budget deficits themselves. They began, of course, under the parlous economic stewardship of Ronald Reagan. Reagan cut the marginal tax rate on the wealthiest of Americans from 70% to 38%. He promised it would spur an orgy of investment and rocket the economy to new levels of production and prosperity. Instead, his “supply side economics” did the exact opposite. It produced the deepest recession since the Great Depression.

Output fell 2.2% in 1982 while budget deficits soared. When Reagan took office in 1981, the national debt stood at $995 billion. Twelve years later, by the end of George H.W. Bush’s presidency, it had exploded to $4 trillion. Reagan was a “B” grade movie actor and a doddering, probably clinically senile president, but he was a sheer genius at rewarding his friends by saddling other people with debts.

Bill Clinton reversed Reagan’s course, raising taxes on the wealthy, and lowering them for the working and middle classes. This produced the longest sustained economic expansion in American history. Importantly, it also produced budgetary surpluses allowing the government to begin paying down the crippling debt begun under Reagan. In 2000, Clinton’s last year, the surplus amounted to $236 billion. The forecast ten year surplus stood at $5.6 trillion. It was the last black ink America would see for decades, perhaps forever.

George W. Bush immediately reversed Clinton’s policy in order to revive Reagan’s, once again showering an embarrassment of riches on the already most embarrassingly rich, his “base” as he calls them. He ladled out some $630 billion in tax cuts to the top 1% of income earners. In true Republican fashion, they returned the favor by investing over $200 million to ensure Bush’s re-election. Do the math. A $630 billion return on a $200 million investment: $3,160 for $1. I’ll give you $3,160. All I ask is that you give me $1 back so I can keep the goodness flowing. Do we have a deal? Republicans know return on investment.

But the cost to the public has been a return to the exploding deficits of the Reagan years. Bush blew through Clinton’s surplus in his first year. The 2004 deficit reached $415 billion, a record. Still, its real size is masked by the fact that Bush has shifted $150 billion from the Social Security trust fund in order to make the shortfall look smaller. It’s like pretending you’re richer when you move money from one pocket to another. Both sums have to be repaid, so the real amount borrowed is the $415 billion “nominal” deficit plus the $150 billion from Social Security or $565 billion.
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  #136  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:52 AM
BabydaddyATL BabydaddyATL is offline
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I haven't seen Obama say he wouldn't do the same thing.
Yes you have, he said he is getting the F out of Iraq. At $30 Billion a month that is a lot of pork savings.
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  #137  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:52 AM
Andrea Andrea is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
I haven't seen Obama say he wouldn't do the same thing.

From BarackObama.com:

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Cut Pork Barrel Spending: Obama introduced and passed bipartisan legislation that would require more disclosure and transparency for special-interest earmarks. Obama believes that spending that cannot withstand public scrutiny cannot be justified. Obama will slash earmarks to no greater than year 2001 levels and ensure all spending decisions are open to the public.
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  #138  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:54 AM
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The military is only a fraction of the budget. Where else does Obama propose to cut pork?
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  #139  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 1:56 AM
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Andrea, none of Obama's remarks indicates he will cut pork (ie, discretionary spending.)
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  #140  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2008, 2:00 AM
BabydaddyATL BabydaddyATL is offline
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Andrea, none of Obama's remarks indicates he will cut pork (ie, discretionary spending.)
Fiorenza, read that article I posted above. It proves that the Democratic philosophy produces stronger growth for the whole economy. Try and prove it wrong. I checked multiple sources and the facts are spot on. So come over to the dark side - that was not a comment about Obama either.
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