Geographic Misconceptions

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by feepa
Most Americans don't even know where or what Delaware is

I'm originally from PEI. I am admittedly a geography nerd, but I was well aware of where Delaware is. (Actually that last sentence flows very nicely off the tongue!! )

You see, PEI is actually slightly larger than Delaware. As such, although PEI is the smallest province in the Dominion (by far), we would only be the third smallest state in the union.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I was under the impression that "humidex" is a Canadian invention. Americans do use "heat index", but I believe it is calculated differently and the two readings therefore are not entirely comparable.

Americans on weather forums are often very critical of the Canadian humidex indicator.

[dancinb]

Originally Posted by someone123

Some Torontonians think of Barrie as being northern, which I'm sure Northern Ontarians think is a bit silly.

I lived in Thornhill for some years and had a friend who lived downtown. I told him it's like people who live in (downtown) Toronto aren't aware than anything north of the 401 exists. He scoffed jokingly and said "Please.....nothing north of Bloor exists."

[Laceoflight]

Originally Posted by dancinb

I lived in Thornhill for some years and had a friend who lived downtown. I told him it's like people who live in (downtown) Toronto aren't aware than anything north of the 401 exists. He scoffed jokingly and said "Please.....nothing north of Bloor exists."

Funny, I've had the same conversation with a Montréalais from Le Plateau (I live in Ahuntsic). I told him that parts of the city north of the Métropolitaine didn't seem to exist. He laughed and replied "Nothing north of Jean-Talon"...

[le calmar]

I am sometimes bothered by the overuse of humidex and wind chill factor. Sometimes I hear that it is currently "-38C" or "44C" without any indication that they are referring to wind chill factor or humidex.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I am sometimes bothered by the overuse of humidex and wind chill factor. Sometimes I hear that it is currently "-38C" or "44C" without any indication that they are referring to wind chill factor or humidex.

A taxi driver just dit that to me this morning.

"Going up over 40 again today..."

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by dancinb

I lived in Thornhill for some years and had a friend who lived downtown. I told him it's like people who live in (downtown) Toronto aren't aware than anything north of the 401 exists. He scoffed jokingly and said "Please.....nothing north of Bloor exists."

I honestly can't remember the last time I went North of Bloor, not including driving past on the way to a cottage.

It can be pretty easy to go months at a time without ever really leaving your bubble, especially with Toronto's lack of subway coverage.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Americans on weather forums are often very critical of the Canadian humidex indicator.

...Weather forums?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

...Weather forums?

Yes, weather forums.

Americans sometimes scoff at humidex readings cited by Canadians, as if it's a way for Canadians to overstate/exaggerate just how hot it can sometimes feel in certain parts of this country.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, weather forums.

Americans sometimes scoff at humidex readings cited by Canadians, as if it's a way for Canadians to overstate/exaggerate just how hot it can sometimes feel in certain parts of this country.

Sort of how we Manitobans feel about easterners and their wind-chill “temperatures”. Of course, it was the eastern weather people who decided to discontinue the Prairie Weather Centre’s traditional “watts/m2” windchill measurements, which were much more meaningful (remembering the cold of a “1900 windchill” or “1950 windchill” morning when I had to go off to school), and replace them with Toronto’s lame “feels like” standard. Another bit of western alienation achieved!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Americans on weather forums are often very critical of the Canadian humidex indicator.

Funny, I've never bothered to look up the exact definitions but I've always assumed (I'm a physicist, I guess I should be more curious than that) that the windchill value is the temp that would, under no wind at all, have an equivalent cooling factor by exposed area of skin, while the humidex value is the temp, under no humidity at all, that would have an equivalent heating effect by exposed area of skin considering evaporation.

i.e. -28 with windchill of -37 means it feels exactly like a perfectly still -37;
+33 with humidex of +41 means it feels exactly like a perfectly dry +41.

It seems to me those are the only ways to define these concepts, which is why over all those years I actually never felt the need to look them up. But now you're puzzling me by mentioning that other definitions exist! Intriguing...

[lio45]

Worth mentioning though, that's valid for someone standing there, but as I pointed out a couple pages ago (by saying the wind helps mitigate the heat when cycling), the equivalency ceases to be true with wind.

Humidex of +41 that is in reality a humid +33, a fan will help you, cycling will help you, driving with windows down will help you.

Humidex of +41 that is in reality a totally dry +41, that air will actually warm you, not cool you.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Funny, I've never bothered to look up the exact definitions but I've always assumed (I'm a physicist, I guess I should be more curious than that) that the windchill value is the temp that would, under no wind at all, have an equivalent cooling factor by exposed area of skin, while the humidex value is the temp, under no humidity at all, that would have an equivalent heating effect by exposed area of skin considering evaporation.

i.e. -28 with windchill of -37 means it feels exactly like a perfectly still -37;
+33 with humidex of +41 means it feels exactly like a perfectly dry +41.

It seems to me those are the only ways to define these concepts, which is why over all those years I actually never felt the need to look them up. But now you're puzzling me by mentioning that other definitions exist! Intriguing...

The Americans have what they call a "heat index" which is apparently more reliable than the Canadian humidex...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The Americans have what they call a "heat index" which is apparently more reliable than the Canadian humidex...

Or so they say..........

It's like asking the question "so who really won the War of 1812?"

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by lio45

Worth mentioning though, that's valid for someone standing there, but as I pointed out a couple pages ago (by saying the wind helps mitigate the heat when cycling), the equivalency ceases to be true with wind.

Humidex of +41 that is in reality a humid +33, a fan will help you, cycling will help you, driving with windows down will help you.

Humidex of +41 that is in reality a totally dry +41, that air will actually warm you, not cool you.

And this is why SSP forumers that ignore wind in Summer to point out 'humidex' ("feels like") readings Without wind, but are quick to point out 'WindChill' readings in Winter With wind are disingenuous. I do appreciate that a lot of the SSP posters, particularly ones that probably post on whatever weather thread still exists, wouldn't be able to grasp this concept though.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, weather forums.

Americans sometimes scoff at humidex readings cited by Canadians, as if it's a way for Canadians to overstate/exaggerate just how hot it can sometimes feel in certain parts of this country.

... As I write this i'm realizing just how Canadian the word 'humidex' is. My spell check doesn't recognize spelling of the word.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I am sometimes bothered by the overuse of humidex and wind chill factor. Sometimes I hear that it is currently "-38C" or "44C" without any indication that they are referring to wind chill factor or humidex.

One of my greatest, most irrational pet peeves and I'm very glad someone else shares it.

The whole of Winnipeg seems to be obsessed with windchill, and includes it in regular temperatures without mentioning it. No, it's not -55. I want to compare temperatures between cities because I'm curious about the geographic differences between them. The base number is far more important than a "feels like" in those comparisons.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

And this is why SSP forumers that ignore wind in Summer to point out 'humidex' ("feels like") readings Without wind, but are quick to point out 'WindChill' readings in Winter With wind are disingenuous.

Wind makes a massive difference in the winter, but in summer? Do people really think that 33 degrees with a "breeze" is appreciably more comfortable than 33 on a still day?

I've never experienced that myself. During a heat wave, driving with the windows open in the car or cruising downhill on my bike does nothing to dissipate the feeling of the heat.

I agree, though, that excessive reliance on humidex values aren't helpful. I don't want to hear "40 with the humidex," because "33 with high humidity" is a more meaningful way of describing how it's going to feel.

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I was under the impression that "humidex" is a Canadian invention. Americans do use "heat index", but I believe it is calculated differently and the two readings therefore are not entirely comparable.

Yes I simply meant they also have methodology which takes into account the humidity. SaskScraper was trying to imply Canada, specifically eastern Canada, was the only place that did such a thing, which is quite clearly incorrect.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I am sometimes bothered by the overuse of humidex and wind chill factor. Sometimes I hear that it is currently "-38C" or "44C" without any indication that they are referring to wind chill factor or humidex.

Same. People doing this with wind chill bugs me more than with humidex, though. The reason is that wind chill is calculated based on wind readings at the airport stations, which thanks to being in wide open areas are almost always way windier than most of the places people actually spend time in. At least humidity is consistent across the city.

People in Eastern Ontario have a huge misperception of how cold their climate actually is in the winter. When you tell people from Ottawa that the average January high is -6C, they stare at you in disbelief and think that's way too high and say "no, it's gotta be like -15C right"?

This is because of the wind chill problem, and also because many people only check the temperature in the morning so are unaware of the afternoon high. So on a given Tuesday that is -6C in the afternoon, it will be, say, -14C in the morning with a -21C windchill, and people will think "oh, Tuesday was -21C".

Also the "minus thirty myth", as I call it. People think -30C is a typical winter temperature. It's actually extremely rare; in most Ottawa winters, you go through the whole winter without hitting -30C once. Last I checked, it's actually been something like 8 years since that temperature was ever recorded at YOW.

[PBruge]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Wind makes a massive difference in the winter, but in summer? Do people really think that 33 degrees with a "breeze" is appreciably more comfortable than 33 on a still day?

I've never experienced that myself. During a heat wave, driving with the windows open in the car or cruising downhill on my bike does nothing to dissipate the feeling of the heat.

I agree, though, that excessive reliance on humidex values aren't helpful. I don't want to hear "40 with the humidex," because "33 with high humidity" is a more meaningful way of describing how it's going to feel.

If a breeze makes no difference during a heat wave then what purpose do fans, open windows serve?

People get too hung up on the number. It’s not to be taken literally it’s just an indicator - it’s 35 but will feel much hotter due to the humidity.