Where the West begins

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by lio45

I would also guess that most Winnipeggers would feel more at home in Edmonton or Saskatoon than in Hamilton, Ottawa or London.

I know some Winnipeggers who prefer Ontario cities over other ones in the Prairies. Winnipeg is the Prairie city that is furthest to the left politically and has a very leftist urban core.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Did anybody mention the arctic?

West is Yukon and NWT

East is Nunavut

That's the classified as the north - east and west don't apply there. That's a whole different ballgame, when it ever vaguely gets any attention.

As for the east-west divide, yeah, the Manitoba-Ontario border is the point. I always got the feeling Thunder Bay was more attached to Toronto - the number of flights is 3X that of those to Winnipeg and most Thunder Bayers were more attached to the Leafs than the Jets too. Anecdotal, I know, but that's the impression for me.

To be fair, the Canadian Shield north of the 47th parallel and west to the Prairies has so few people in some areas as to be uninhabited in relation to Southern Ontario or the Prairies. It could be recognized as the physical manifestation of the symbolic gap between east and west.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by wave46

That's the classified as the north - east and west don't apply there. That's a whole different ballgame, when it ever vaguely gets any attention.

As for the east-west divide, yeah, the Manitoba-Ontario border is the point. I always got the feeling Thunder Bay was more attached to Toronto - the number of flights is 3X that of those to Winnipeg and most Thunder Bayers were more attached to the Leafs than the Jets too. Anecdotal, I know, but that's the impression for me.

To be fair, the Canadian Shield north of the 47th parallel and east to the Prairies has so few people in some areas as to be uninhabited in relation to Southern Ontario or the Prairies. It could be recognized as the physical manifestation of the symbolic gap between east and west.

It's pretty wide going from East to West across Arctic Canada so those directions should apply there. But I guess because you can't drive across there most people don't think of it that way.

Thunder Bay definitely has more association with Toronto. It's really only Dryden and going West which especially includes Kenora that have a big association with Manitoba. Thunder Bay is quite connected with Minnesota, especially Duluth and people drive to Minneapolis for concerts and events. But many but not all businesses in T-Bay are supplied from the West.

The Northern Ontario "gap" that you refer to certain does bridge the East and West but it's a pretty large area. Many don't like driving it with all of the wilderness and big distances between places.

[sunsetmountainland]

This is so simple. The east as well as the west begin in Toronto! It is the center of the universe!

[SignalHillHiker]

Here it's Western: BC, AB, SK, MB.
Central: ON, QC.
Atlantic: Maritimes, NL.

Eastern Canada isn't as commonly used and seems to be mixed with some assuming it includes us, others not. It's my impression the most common way that's interpreted is QC and the Maritimes, excluding us.

Most people here underestimate the size of Canada, I think. I always knew Halifax was halfway to Toronto driving, but for some reason thought Toronto was halfway to Vancouver. Most people here have no idea were closer to Rome than Victoria. They think BC is much closer than it really is.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I know you were. I also figured you were using a modern map of Ontario over one from when the university was founded. (and why Northern Ontario is Northern Ontario and Western Ontario is Western Ontario.)

yes. I've been a prof at Western for 13 years, and I am aware that it truly was (in) Western Ontario when the university was founded as such.

[MolsonExport]

Winnipeg would be a great candidate for being at the border of both. OK, so it is perhaps 120kms to the West of where the farms of the Great Plains start dominating the landscape (another candidate being that place right near the Man-Ont border). Geographically it is nearly the same distance from West and East coasts. A history of being lumped into the West, yet much more Eastern in terms of the urban fabric and the economy. Not too right wing, nor too left wing. Neither boom nor bust.

Winnipeg is the answer.

[MonctonRad]

If the discussion is east vs west, then the dividing line is obviously the ON/MB border, but this really does not address the Canadian reality.

The reality (geographically, economically and ethnolinguistically) is:

1) - Newfoundland (yes, it is it's own entity historically, joining Canada only in 1949, and this is amplified by geographic isolation).
2) - Maritimes (minus a small sliver of NW NB, which is closely aligned to Quebec)
3) - Quebec (could be included in "central Canada", but the linguistic divide is too broad). Includes small slivers of NW NB & eastern Ontario near Cornwall).
4) - southern Ontario (the center of the universe)
5) - northern Ontario (the land that time forgot)
6) - the West (MB, SK, AB and arguably areas of interior BC)
7) - British Columbia (the land beyond the mountains)
8) - the North (YK, NT, NU), the land beyond the wall.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Winnipeg would be a great candidate for being at the border of both. OK, so it is perhaps 120kms to the West of where the farms of the Great Plains start dominating the landscape (another candidate being that place right near the Man-Ont border). Geographically it is nearly the same distance from West and East coasts. A history of being lumped into the West, yet much more Eastern in terms of the urban fabric and the economy. Not too right wing, nor too left wing. Neither boom nor bust.

Winnipeg is the answer.

Gateway to the West.

[Laceoflight]

In order to instill a purely geographical aspect to the discussion, it would appear that if we substract Canada's extreme longitudinal coordinates (Cape Spear, NL and Boundary Peak, YT), the divide between East and West would be a line that runs between Road 65E near Piney Pinecreek Border Airport, southern Manitoba, and the geographic North Pole.

Not bad if I consider that our little geography classes here in High School would teach us that Winnipeg was somewhat the gateway to the great West, the hub between two worlds, the most "easternized" of the western canadian cities, or the most "westernized" eastern canadian city.

And BTW, guys, the first time I ever heard / read the expression "Central Canada" was here on the forum, like 2 years ago. In Québec, no one ever uses this expression. In fact, most people would consider themselves "easterners" before they'd even think of a concept such as "Central Canada". It seems to be huge on this forum... and it probably is in the West or in anglo scientific/technic litterature... but here on the field... niet.

Also, historically, the west started at the Pays-d'en-Haut, which would be all the land west and upstream of the Ottawa river. The centre of gravity of the country has shifted towards Ontario with the exponential growth of the extreme West, thus changing this old conception. Nonetheless, many people here still consider they're going West as soon as they cross the border between Abitibi and Northeastern Ontario.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Laceoflight

Also, historically, the west started at the Pays-d'en-Haut, which would be all the land west and upstream of the Ottawa river. The centre of gravity of the country has shifted towards Ontario with the exponential growth of the extreme West, thus changing this old conception. Nonetheless, many people here still consider they're going West as soon as they cross the border between Abitibi and Northeastern Ontario.

I like this. The term Pays-d'en-Haut dates back to the time of the old French and English colonies before the Seven Years War. Yes, this term was synonymous with the "west" and included northern Ontario.

[Docere]

It's interesting that North Dakota is generally not considered the West in the US but Manitoba is generally considered fully Western here. Most of the population of the Dakotas are in the eastern half, more tied to Minnesota geographically and culturally. "West Dakota" is very thinly populated.

Then again the East/West divide is much sharper in Canada and the "Midwest" concept makes no sense here.

[MonctonRad]

Midwest = SW Ontario

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Here it's Western: BC, AB, SK, MB.
Central: ON, QC.
Atlantic: Maritimes, NL.

Eastern Canada isn't as commonly used and seems to be mixed with some assuming it includes us, others not. It's my impression the most common way that's interpreted is QC and the Maritimes, excluding us.

Most people here underestimate the size of Canada, I think. I always knew Halifax was halfway to Toronto driving, but for some reason thought Toronto was halfway to Vancouver. Most people here have no idea were closer to Rome than Victoria. They think BC is much closer than it really is.

People use Eastern Canada out west, referring to ON eastward.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Midwest = SW Ontario

Sort of, but there's no smooth transition like in the US where the Prairie provinces and Southern Ontario are separated by 1000 miles of thinly populated Canadian Shield. We don't really have anything like the Corn Belt linking it all together. What's the Canadian Illinois or Iowa?

I mean one can compare SW Ontario to Michigan, NW Ontario to Minnesota's Iron Range and the Prairies to the Dakotas but there's nothing really linking these disparate areas together as a coherent "region."

[Docere]

Originally Posted by wave46

most Thunder Bayers were more attached to the Leafs than the Jets too.

Has anyone done a map of the fan base of NHL teams in Canada? That could be interesting.

[ssiguy]

For anyone East of Winnipeg, the Manitoba/Ontario border is where the West begins. Realistically however most people divide the country as being "West of Windsor" usually inferred as being the hinterlands.

For people in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan is considered the West but Manitoba is sort of considered more of a meeting point with more Eastern sensibilities which it does have and this is definitely the case from a BC point of view.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Midwest = SW Ontario

Nah, like others have said, we don't have a corollary for the American midwest. All of southern Ontario is either central Canada, or Great Lakes, or, most commonly...Ontario.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

For anyone East of Winnipeg, the Manitoba/Ontario border is where the West begins. Realistically however most people divide the country as being "West of Windsor" usually inferred as being the hinterlands.

For people in BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan is considered the West but Manitoba is sort of considered more of a meeting point with more Eastern sensibilities which it does have and this is definitely the case from a BC point of view.

Vancouver-Victoria = Winnipeg = lefty point of view

Most of the rest of Manitoba = Most of the rest of BC = central/righty point of view.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Laceoflight

And BTW, guys, the first time I ever heard / read the expression "Central Canada" was here on the forum, like 2 years ago. In Québec, no one ever uses this expression. In fact, most people would consider themselves "easterners" before they'd even think of a concept such as "Central Canada". It seems to be huge on this forum... and it probably is in the West or in anglo scientific/technic litterature... but here on the field... niet.

Agreed... I've also been pointing out for years on this forum that "Central Canada" made no sense, especially if it included all of Quebec including its easternmost, maritime parts.

Eastern Canada, yes (and it obviously includes Quebec).

What we say sometimes is "The Quebec City - Windsor Corridor" when that's what we want to speak of. But we'd never call that "Central Canada". It's Eastern Canada.

Same thing with the BosWash corridor - it's obviously the core of what's happening in the USA, but no one would call it "Central USA" (to my knowledge, at least) because it's just obviously in the East.