Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Riverman

It has nothing to do with the new bridges, it has to do with more people moving outside the city.

A lot of people want to live in a field for some reason.

Interestingly enough, Winnipeg's been growing at a faster rate than East St. Paul for nearly the last decade now, contrary to popular belief...

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by Riverman

A lot of people want to live in a field for some reason.

If the city keeps adding lanes to the routes to downtown allowing them to get here quicker, why not?

[Riverman]

Main and Henderson have not had any lanes added in the last 57 years. What are you referring to?

[CoryB]

^^ Actually both Henderson and Main have added lanes north on the old rail line near Springfield/Kildonan Park. Before the underpasses were removed it was two lanes each way and now it is three. Granted that change occurred a long time ago now.

[steveosnyder]

Well, the SPC for infrastructure renewal and public works meeting agenda has been posted, and it's a rather long. I'm going to have fun tonight/tomorrow looking it over. First meeting since EPC tabled the 2015 budget.

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/View...onId=&InitUrl=

[cllew]

sounds like a fight could be starting over which underpass gets built next. Marion at CP or Waverly @ CN.

I am thinking that the CN mainline will win out because it causes more frequent disruptions than the CP line down to the US which are less in number but slower moving

[esquire]

^ You would think Waverley would win by virtue of being a very busy street crossing a very busy train track. It's a travesty that the much less busy Plessis is getting a grade separation before Waverley is.

After Waverley, the City should add grade separations at Marion and Bishop Grandin at the CP tracks and we'll be set for a good long while after that.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ You would think Waverley would win by virtue of being a very busy street crossing a very busy train track. It's a travesty that the much less busy Plessis is getting a grade separation before Waverley is.

After Waverley, the City should add grade separations at Marion and Bishop Grandin at the CP tracks and we'll be set for a good long while after that.

If Jim Carr is elected, you can bet where this one is going. Squeaky wheel gets the grease - from strictly a position of whom likely holds more sway where it matters, those living South of Taylor, or those commuting down Marion?

[CoryB]

The Waverly v Marrion discussion is deeper than which street has more traffic.

There is the whole east side (Marrion) versus west side (Waverly) divide that runs through the city at the very top. In the time the "west" got Bishop and Pembina, the Kenaston underpass and now the Bishop fly-over there has not been a single new grade separated intersection built east of the Red.

Then there is the issue on how the Kenaston underpass was meant to address the needs to traffic crossing the CN line going north-south, including traffic that uses Waverly. Isn't the Kenaston underpass also designed for add an additional through lane in each direction?

We could then get into the debate on how long the Marrion project has been on the books. The plan to better align Marrion across Lag has been talked about for decades.

Toss in the impact the Marrion project is having on developing significant vacant land (the old Packers/Swift/Stockyard) and the impact it could be having on residents between Archibald and Lag, Marrion and Dugald who may be expropriated.

The Waverly project itself has issues. The traffic is coming from/going to somewhere so why are they crossing there instead of Pembina or Kenaston and why changes might an underpass have on all three of the routes in terms of traffic volumes. Also what will the impact be on the other streets, especially Taylor and Grant.

There is no easy answer on either side. Rather than splitting the money between projects the city needs to prioritize not only these ones but other projects like the Arlington St Bridge replacement, the William Clement extension, the Lag/Regent grade separation and the Chief Peagus Trail build out and decide who really is top of the pile overall the put all their eggs (money) into that one basket. Keep working on that list and don't let new projects enter higher than around fourth on the list.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

If Jim Carr is elected, you can bet where this one is going. Squeaky wheel gets the grease - from strictly a position of whom likely holds more sway where it matters, those living South of Taylor, or those commuting down Marion?

Well, that sway wasn't enough to get them a grade separation ahead of the good people of Transcona even though Waverley was more deserving than Plessis by any objective standard (AADT + number of train disruptions), so who is really to say?

For Marion to get its ungainly LA freeway interchange ahead of the Waverley underpass would be tantamount to a huge act of trolling by the City.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

There is no easy answer on either side. Rather than splitting the money between projects the city needs to prioritize not only these ones but other projects like the Arlington St Bridge replacement, the William Clement extension, the Lag/Regent grade separation and the Chief Peagus Trail build out and decide who really is top of the pile overall the put all their eggs (money) into that one basket. Keep working on that list and don't let new projects enter higher than around fourth on the list.

When the City can barely maintain and upgrade existing routes, extending Clement and Peguis would be the height of folly. "Hey kids, the roof is caving in and we can't afford to redo it, but mom and I thought we'd build a nice new gazebo instead!"

[bomberjet]

It seems to me that Marion project is changing concepts from what we've seen before. It's taking way too long for the second open house. 3-4 months overdue, which is way too long. Otherwise they're just wasting time.

If they did change it up and put the interchange at Lag, I'd go with that project over Waverley. Waverley can sit the way it is for another 5 years. Now that a lot of traffic is directed to Kenaston instead of Waverley down in the Bishop Grandin area, I'd say that will help ease the headaches a bit.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

It seems to me that Marion project is changing concepts from what we've seen before. It's taking way too long for the second open house. 3-4 months overdue, which is way too long. Otherwise they're just wasting time.

If they did change it up and put the interchange at Lag, I'd go with that project over Waverley. Waverley can sit the way it is for another 5 years. Now that a lot of traffic is directed to Kenaston instead of Waverley down in the Bishop Grandin area, I'd say that will help ease the headaches a bit.

It's just that Kenaston has turned into a parking lot. And yeah, it's largely the fault of the province for building Waverley West with no traffic plan, but Waverley could very easily be taking large portions of that traffic off of Kenaston which people only default to at the risk of hitting a train.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

Well, that sway wasn't enough to get them a grade separation ahead of the good people of Transcona even though Waverley was more deserving than Plessis by any objective standard (AADT + number of train disruptions), so who is really to say?

For Marion to get its ungainly LA freeway interchange ahead of the Waverley underpass would be tantamount to a huge act of trolling by the City.

Very true. And with a Conservative MP no less.

I couldn't tell you how Plessis had its number called first, but let me be the first in this thread to say I'm happy it did given the complete circus being run over there. Can you imagine if this were happening at Waverley? It would be mayhem.

[bomberjet]

I'll give Russ Wyatt credit on that one. He stood on the side of the road there a few times, got an underpass going for his ward.

But Plessis is a complete disaster. Waverley will have a road detour, so will be much less pressure from the public on that one. A lot less utilities at Waverley to deal with too, so that's good.

[cllew]

Imperial Oil and Shell did not do anything to speed up the pipeline relocation on Plessis which impacted the rest of the timeline.

Because they were there first I con't think the city can go after them for any additional project costs due to the slow relocation.

[bomberjet]

It's all about seniority. Regardless, just an overall disaster for the City.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by cllew

Imperial Oil and Shell did not do anything to speed up the pipeline relocation on Plessis which impacted the rest of the timeline.

Because they were there first I con't think the city can go after them for any additional project costs due to the slow relocation.

Again, this comes down to planning. Had anybody actually commissioned an engineer's report on the thing in advance of pulling a budget number out of think air and acting on it, somebody may have actually found those lines.

[Danny D Oh]

Haven't studied other cities on this issue, but hard to believe any other city this size keeps changing it's priorities and never actually gets much done as much as Winnipeg.

It's too bad Shindico wasn't in road construction. We might have actually made some progress in the last decade.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Again, this comes down to planning. Had anybody actually commissioned an engineer's report on the thing in advance of pulling a budget number out of think air and acting on it, somebody may have actually found those lines.

No, because they had to get the proposal into Ottawa and the shovels in the ground ASAP to get the "shovel-ready" stimulus money. Part of me would like to see Ottawa hold the city accountable and pull the funding for a project that clearly didn't meet the guidelines of the funding provided, although Ottawa is just as culpable for approving it.