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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2021, 1:01 PM
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202 Cannon St E | 3f | 12m | Proposed

Caran Developments is proposing a 3-storey, 16 unit building at the site of the old barn on Cannon at Cathcart. Proposal is for zero vehicle parking and 13 bike parking spaces.

Really jarring to see a site zoned for 30 storeys being redeveloped into three storeys. The proect goes to COA next Thursday.

https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...umentId=260429

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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2021, 2:53 PM
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They better not approve of this... way under intensified. I would say minimum 10 stories here at least...
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2021, 3:30 PM
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They better not approve of this... way under intensified. I would say minimum 10 stories here at least...
It doesn't look like a large site so maybe that's a factor. But at least double it upward to 6.

I do think new builds in the immediate area should be at least as tall as 220-222 Cannon on the block just east of this site.
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  #4  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2021, 3:41 PM
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It doesn't look like a large site so maybe that's a factor.
It is indeed quite a small site. And the taller they go, the less likely they'll be able to justify complete omission of parking. I suspect a 10-storey building here with even a 0.3 cars-per-unit ratio would not be practical. From a planning perspective, best-case scenario for this site would probably have to involve its amalgamation with the adjacent one.
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2021, 4:15 PM
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It's definitely under-scaled, which is too bad, but I find it hard to be terribly fussed about it.


Keep in mind:

- This is probably the weakest area in the designated downtown area for development, from an economic point of view. I imagine it would be very hard to make the economics pencil out here.

- The only other recent build in the area (of scale) is Vranich's race car stripes apartment block. That should tell you something...

- This is a small site, at around 525 square metres. To build anything bigger, you would need to assemble more lots, likely the one to the west, which is 192 Cannon East.
- Bringing 192 Cannon East into the mix would give you a site of about 1325 square metres.
- But, considering that 192 Cannon East is a light industrial usage (electric motor repair), it would not be unreasonable to expect that some sort of remediation may turn out to be necessary, which adds significant costs to the project.
- Alternatively, you could assemble more lots to the south, but you'd likely need the two duplexes to the south (73, 75, 77, and 77 1/2).
- If you were able to acquire those two duplexes, the site size would grow to about 920 square metres.
- However, by moving south into the neighbourhood, and proposing a taller building, you may run into concerns of 'compatibility' and angular planes and the like, which could very well eat into the density gained by adding those two duplexes to the site, and could negate the benefit of actually acquiring them and growing the site.
- Reading the site plan attached to the Minor Variance application, while the maximum number of storeys is listed as 30, the maximum building height is listed 15 metres. I don't have the time to verify that right now, but assuming that is accurate, any proposal over four storeys would require a lot more effort and investment to gain approval.



All things considered, I'm not surprised the built form has ended up how it has. That said, there are a few items of low hanging fruit that would make the proposal better:

- Building to lot line on the west side should be an absolute no brainer. This would modestly increase floor space, and would prevent a gap in a future Cannon street streetscape.

- IMO, building to the south lot line makes more sense than a tiny little "outdoor amenity" (read: two picnic tables) and an accessory structure for bicycle parking that could be integrated on the first floor of the building.

- I don't love the setbacks on the east or north sides either, but they're street facing, so they'd likely be more difficult to remove. They're not huge though, so they're not too terrible.

- You can just barely fit in an extra storey under the existing 15 metre limit, so that would be nice to see.



So, all in all, "meh" from my point of view. Also, if this is a rental and not a condominium, it would be easy enough to redevelop in the future.



Personally, I am much more frustrated by CityHousing planning a tiny 6 storey building at Bay and Cannon, which also has a maximum storey count of 30 (not sure the maximum height in metres). Wasting City land and assets on a small building which is 70% replacement units and not new units should be considered offensive.

Why they have not partnered with a developer to build a taller, mixed-income building that would enable more public housing units and enable hundreds of market units as well is beyond me. Especially considering the proximity to the heart of the downtown, and the continued northward march of development.
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2021, 9:30 PM
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I'm not in love with the sides of this building especially the side facing Cannon. The existing building isn't much to look at, but it's unfortunate such a dead wall would be put there in place.

It's also unfortunate that the barn fell into such disrepair and is in such a current deadzone, because I could see the front addition being pulled off and it being a kind of cool restaurant or craft brewpub or something.

Glad to see more units and people go here though. This area really needs it. It would be nice at 4-6 storeys too. I know there's no room for commercial, and the existing commercial units next door are vacant though I'm betting that's more to do with Darko and less with lack of demand, but it would have been nice to restore the commercial mixed use of the property and continue some more commercial along Cannon where a bike lane makes commercial greatly accessible to people not driving.
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  #7  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2021, 4:04 PM
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Cannon seemingly has good infrastructure for development (two-way bike lanes) and would be great to aim at cycling enthusiasts & urbanists with some killer architecture in a gritty way. Could be an ideal housing strip with a mixture of housing types. On that note, I 100% agree, a craft beer bar or something in that barn would be killer.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2021, 10:48 PM
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Seems this building had a fire lately: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ured-1.6098893

So this might be happening slower or faster than expected. Depending on how fires get dealt with and if the developer wants to deal with this.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2021, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRitsman View Post
Seems this building had a fire lately: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ured-1.6098893

So this might be happening slower or faster than expected. Depending on how fires get dealt with and if the developer wants to deal with this.
Even God doesn't approve of it.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2021, 12:58 AM
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Even God doesn't approve of it.
Maybe the insurance company will?
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  #11  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2021, 2:34 PM
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Demo of this building was approved July 6, 2021 where if replacement building is not erected within 2 years the city will be paid a $20,000 penalty.
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  #12  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2022, 3:08 PM
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  #13  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2022, 3:12 PM
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The image on the listing shows a 6 fl building
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  #14  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2022, 7:11 PM
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That would be a much more appropriate scale, if something is built there.
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