HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure

Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #5161  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 1:07 AM
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by queetz@home View Post
If SFU students from Braid and beyond is the main driving force as to why planners are trying to avoid the go down and under transfer, then I say Burquitlam, not Production Way, should be the SFU transfer point moving forward.
It's my understanding that this will in fact be the case.
     
     
  #5162  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 4:54 PM
Ehlun Ehlun is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 60
As I was reading and Googling...

My understanding all along was 145 gets moved to Burquitlam Station, but...

Quote:
The majority of route 143 will eventually be replaced by the Evergreen Line SkyTrain extension in 2014 when a shorter 143 bus route will run from Burquitlam Station to the SFU Transit Loop.
http://univercity.ca/wp-content/them...E%20042209.pdf

Wonder if this means the 145 gets eliminated or they run both the 145 and shortened 143?
     
     
  #5163  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 5:46 PM
nname nname is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehlun View Post
As I was reading and Googling...

My understanding all along was 145 gets moved to Burquitlam Station, but...


http://univercity.ca/wp-content/them...E%20042209.pdf

Wonder if this means the 145 gets eliminated or they run both the 145 and shortened 143?
Burquitlam is NOT meant replace Production station. It just take some load off Production station. The 145 will stay as-is, perhaps with a slight reduction of service during peak hours. The 143 will see increase of service with trip from SFU alternating between Burquitlam and Coquitlam Station during weekday daytime. However, the 145 will remains the main service to SFU as it will have more service during any time of the day.

Just a comparison with the service stated in the 2007 integration plan for Evergreen LRT:
Code:
			143	145
Weekday Peak		5	2-4
Weekday Midday		10	7.5
Weekday Evening		30	12-15
Weekday Late Night	-	30
Weekend Daytime		30	15
Weekend Evening		30	15-30
Weekend Late Night	-	30
     
     
  #5164  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 8:55 PM
queetz@home's Avatar
queetz@home queetz@home is offline
Go Rotem! Die Bombardier!
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ortigas
Posts: 3,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
Burquitlam is NOT meant replace Production station. It just take some load off Production station. The 145 will stay as-is, perhaps with a slight reduction of service during peak hours. The 143 will see increase of service with trip from SFU alternating between Burquitlam and Coquitlam Station during weekday daytime. However, the 145 will remains the main service to SFU as it will have more service during any time of the day.
Not meant at you nname, rather at those know it all Translink planners but jeeze!!!!!

Here we have an opportunity to actually have some cost saving efficiencies on servicing students and at the same time reduce wear and tear into the rapid transit system and avoiding confusion to the riding public, and yet Translink won't do it?

The Production Station SFU shuttle is now redundant, and students *should* be getting off Burquitlam since its closer to the school. People coming from North Burnaby would never have to get off the train to get to Burquitlam no matter what configuration, so why should they get off at Production and endure a 15 minute bus ride when 8 minutes (per the Bosa Uptown ad) or less to SFU if done at Burquitlam????

It really makes you wonder the wisdom that we pay six figures to each of the Translink staff that makes these cookie, irrational decisions, eh?
     
     
  #5165  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 9:06 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 26,329
The cross-platform transfer is also meant to facilitate Surrey-Coquitlam transfers.

Under the LRSP, the "T" Line was supposed to have the wye open to the south, to allow trains to travel from Coquitlam to New West (providing a single transfer to Surrey).
Instead, the line was built with the wye opening to the east, requiring 2 transfers from Coquitlam to Surrey.

So in addition to helping New West passengers transfer to Vancouver-bound trains, the cross-platform transfer also helps passengers from Coquitlam transfer to trains to New West and then transfer to Surrey.
     
     
  #5166  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 9:09 PM
SFUVancouver's Avatar
SFUVancouver SFUVancouver is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kamloops
Posts: 5,301
Admission time: I have no clear idea what the issue is with Lougheed Station. Could someone please explain the configuration with the simplicity they would use when explaining it to a parent or a non-transit/non-technical co-worker?

I've followed the Evergreen Line closely and I am 75% sure that I understand the configuration, but I also trust that the people on this forum have solid ground for being frustrated with the final design. So help me out: what's the issue?
__________________
VANCOUVER | Beautiful, Multicultural | Canada's Pacific Metropolis
     
     
  #5167  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 9:36 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 26,329
See the track routing diagram on the previous page.
People don't like that trains have to cross in front of each other to arrive at their assigned station platorms.
     
     
  #5168  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 9:42 PM
nname nname is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by queetz@home View Post
Not meant at you nname, rather at those know it all Translink planners but jeeze!!!!!

Here we have an opportunity to actually have some cost saving efficiencies on servicing students and at the same time reduce wear and tear into the rapid transit system and avoiding confusion to the riding public, and yet Translink won't do it?

The Production Station SFU shuttle is now redundant, and students *should* be getting off Burquitlam since its closer to the school. People coming from North Burnaby would never have to get off the train to get to Burquitlam no matter what configuration, so why should they get off at Production and endure a 15 minute bus ride when 8 minutes (per the Bosa Uptown ad) or less to SFU if done at Burquitlam????
One thing you forget is - traffic. After taking bus to SFU for more than 8 years, I would much prefer the 145 than the 143 if I'm in north Burnaby. The hill up Como Lake is always jammed up during peak hours that it sometimes take longer to get from SFU to Burquitlam than from Burquitlam to Coquitlam. The official timetable state that it takes 18min for the 143 to get to Buruqitlam compared to 15min for 145 to get to Production. Both routes takes 13min off-peak, but keep in mind that the time on 143 will likely be longer if you include the extra time to go half a block south to reach the station.

As for wear and tear - the 143 is just a horrible route for the buses. The bus had to keep breaking going down SFU, and then driver had to slam on the break to stop and wait for the left turn at the bottom of the hill (whereas the 145 can just continue straight at high speed). It is very common for the bus to overheat at this point, and many times the driver have to shut down the bus and restart (missing 1 or even 2 light cycles in the process). Immediately after the turn, driver have to apply full power to the bus to drive up the hill on Como Lake - sometimes in stop-and-go traffic for more than 10 minutes. And then the bus may overheat again and the driver had to do another restart. This wear and tear is much much worse than the 145.
     
     
  #5169  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 10:11 PM
SFUVancouver's Avatar
SFUVancouver SFUVancouver is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kamloops
Posts: 5,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
See the track routing diagram on the previous page.
People don't like that trains have to cross in front of each other to arrive at their assigned station platorms.
That's what I thought was the issue, but I thought I was missing something because it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a passenger heading westbound on the Millennium Line would then cross the platform and continue on their journey on an Evergreen Line train that pulls into the station on the standard right-hand-side of the platform (technically the middle track). For westbound passengers on the Evergreen Line, they could cross the same platform and board an eastbound Millennium Line train as it reverses. The eastbound Evergreen Line passenger wishing to continue further on the Millennium line has to take a walk from the third platform to the main platform, but that strikes me as a smaller cohort than the alternative patterns of ridership.
__________________
VANCOUVER | Beautiful, Multicultural | Canada's Pacific Metropolis
     
     
  #5170  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 10:13 PM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,090
Start of Tunnel Boring Operations

Start of Tunnel Boring Operations

Assembly of the tunnel boring machine (TBM) is complete and crews will now begin construction of the two kilometre tunnel from Port Moody to Coquitlam. Tunnel boring operations will begin in mid-March and will take approximately one year to complete.

Bored tunnel construction means there is no disruption to the surface above, with the exception of the tunnel entry and exit points. There will only be a single bored tunnel with a concrete wall between the tracks to separate trains travelling in opposite directions. A single tunnel will allow EGRT Construction to complete the overall project on schedule by the summer of 2016.

more details:
http://egrtconstruction.ca/media-cen...ng-operations/
     
     
  #5171  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 10:22 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 26,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
That's what I thought was the issue, but I thought I was missing something because it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a passenger heading westbound on the Millennium Line would then cross the platform and continue on their journey on an Evergreen Line train that pulls into the station on the standard right-hand-side of the platform (technically the middle track). For westbound passengers on the Evergreen Line, they could cross the same platform and board an eastbound Millennium Line train as it reverses. The eastbound Evergreen Line passenger wishing to continue further on the Millennium line has to take a walk from the third platform to the main platform, but that strikes me as a smaller cohort than the alternative patterns of ridership.
The concern is more about the potential for delays due to all the switching involved, but with automation, short trains and dwell times, that's probably a minor issue.
     
     
  #5172  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 10:32 PM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
Admission time: I have no clear idea what the issue is with Lougheed Station. Could someone please explain the configuration with the simplicity they would use when explaining it to a parent or a non-transit/non-technical co-worker?

I've followed the Evergreen Line closely and I am 75% sure that I understand the configuration, but I also trust that the people on this forum have solid ground for being frustrated with the final design. So help me out: what's the issue?
I would start with:

North Platform (under construction)
Middle Platform (used today by Millennium trains heading west to VCC)
South Platform (used today by Millennium trains heading east to Waterfront via Braid and New West)


When Evergreen Line is finished:

North Platform (Evergreen trains heading east to Douglas College)
Middle Platform (Evergreen trains heading west to VCC)
South Platform (Terminal for Millennium trains from Braid; the next trip is east to Vancouver Waterfront via Braid and New West)


Middle and South platforms share the same passenger waiting area.
North platform is a separate passenger waiting area.

Any transfer between the Middle / South platforms and the North platform will require a down & up shuffle through the Station Houses (aka fare control areas) on the east and west ends of the station.
     
     
  #5173  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 10:37 PM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
See the track routing diagram on the previous page.
People don't like that trains have to cross in front of each other to arrive at their assigned station platorms.
I'm don't care how a train gets there - just show up on time at the proper platform.

Track switching &tc before arriving or after leaving is usually ignored by the masses, as long as the train gets them where they want to go, how it is done doesn't matter to the 99% - including me.
     
     
  #5174  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 10:56 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 7,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
The concern is more about the potential for delays due to all the switching involved, but with automation, short trains and dwell times, that's probably a minor issue.
I seem to remember a few years ago there was a rash of "switching issues" around Columbia that caused a number of system-wide issues. As long as they are on top of the areas on the lines that have frequent switching we should be ok. Fingers crossed...
     
     
  #5175  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2014, 11:28 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 26,329
The original switch control system on the Expo Line is being replaced (outdated software, hardware (think 286)).
It shouldn't be an issue for a new line.
     
     
  #5176  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2014, 12:17 AM
queetz@home's Avatar
queetz@home queetz@home is offline
Go Rotem! Die Bombardier!
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ortigas
Posts: 3,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
One thing you forget is - traffic. After taking bus to SFU for more than 8 years....<snip>
I think its safe to assume that whatever you and I have experienced in the past or even the present when it comes to the 143 or 145 is an invalid argument when it comes to taking the Evergreen Line existing. All the traffic nitemare, which bus route is more convenient, etc will not be in play from the Summer of 2016 onwards because there will be the long awaited Skytrain line which will alleviate all this mess. The traffic nitemare that you speak of only exists because WE HAVE NO SKYTRAIN!

Hence while the 145 may seem better yesterday or today, doesn't mean it will be better than 143 coming from Burquitlam in August 2016. And as far as we can tell, and what has been brought up here, Burquitlam will make the most sense as the sole transfer point for SFU students, regardless of the trackwork configuration at the Lougheed Station area and the origin of the students in the entire Skytrain network.

So might as well take advantage of it and give a better trackwork configuration that will be easier for the user and less wear and tear to the skytrain system, and also save operating costs by eliminating a redundant shuttle bus route.
     
     
  #5177  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2014, 12:30 AM
queetz@home's Avatar
queetz@home queetz@home is offline
Go Rotem! Die Bombardier!
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ortigas
Posts: 3,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
The cross-platform transfer is also meant to facilitate Surrey-Coquitlam transfers.

Under the LRSP, the "T" Line was supposed to have the wye open to the south, to allow trains to travel from Coquitlam to New West (providing a single transfer to Surrey).
Instead, the line was built with the wye opening to the east, requiring 2 transfers from Coquitlam to Surrey.

So in addition to helping New West passengers transfer to Vancouver-bound trains, the cross-platform transfer also helps passengers from Coquitlam transfer to trains to New West and then transfer to Surrey.
But those same Coquitlam passengers will have to go down and up when they are coming from New West, so to use the original T line plan to justify the convoluted plan...I just don't buy it.

That said, maybe it doesn't have to be that hard. Perhaps they can do some switching of direction of the trains if ease of transfer is their main goal. So assuming Surrey / New West is the more employment centre than Port Moody / Coquitlam (though I think PoMo is really taking off in that regard), maybe during the morning rush, the trains can wrong rail, but at afternoon and night, they can right rail.

In this way, the wear and tear of the switches may go down to more than 50%, which would really add up throughout the years. The public will still be confused, but there seems to be no way around that. At least the transfer will be less painful....
     
     
  #5178  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2014, 12:35 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 26,329
The morning commute is generally more time-sensitive than the afternoon commute.

The main purpose of the routing is to assign destinations to the platforms and that those destinations do not change - so you will always go to a particular platform for a particular destination.
They'll just read the signs pointing to a platform that say "VCC Clark", "Douglas Lafarge Lake" or, hmm, "Waterfront"?.

Like jsbertram noted, the general public won't notice or care about the switching, and as I noted, wrt wear & tear, there are already switches on the system (at the termini) that operate for every train.
     
     
  #5179  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2014, 12:46 AM
queetz@home's Avatar
queetz@home queetz@home is offline
Go Rotem! Die Bombardier!
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ortigas
Posts: 3,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
The morning commute is generally more time-sensitive than the afternoon commute.

The main purpose of the routing is to assign destinations to the platforms and that those destinations do not change - so you will always go to a particular platform for a particular destination.

Like jsbertram noted, the general public won't notice or care about the switching, and as I noted, wrt wear & tear, there are already switches on the system (at the termini) that operate for every train.
That's not always the case. In cities like Amsterdam, they assign certain platforms to be used for a destination depending on the time of day. But we all know Translink will not make any changes based on what is being discussed here, no matter how convoluted their plans are...
     
     
  #5180  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2014, 1:18 AM
deasine deasine is offline
Vancouver Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by queetz@home View Post
That's not always the case.
Well this generalisation applies in Vancouver.

As for the platform changing based on operations comment, the same applies for many rail systems in Australia (Melbourne and Sydney). A system like that can be confusing for the average person and there needs to be sufficient digital signage "sites of navigation" (generally near maps, before fare gates).
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:38 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.