For a project I had to go take a community walk and take photos of the Scarborough Village area of Scarborough in the eastern suburban area of Toronto. While the surrounding neighbourhood of single family homes is kept very well and is doing fine, the core of high-rises at the main intersection of the neighbourhood are in pretty poor repair, etc.
A walk through this neighbourhood shows Toronto can no longer call itself the "city that works".
The conditions in these buildings were just so poor that I can't believe people live in them. One building had balconies which were sagging.
Once built as middle class housing for residents saving up to buy a house, etc. A large majority of Toronto's suburban high-rise housing has turned into a last resort of housing.
The broken light is a really good symbol of the decline of Toronto's suburban high-rise housing. You never would have seen that in the Toronto of 20 or 30 years ago. The neglect that our high-rise housing has seen is just sad.
A great idea of smart growth and the mixed housing in suburban areas. But they just have not been well maintained. And look how dirty the surroundings are. Toronto used to be known as a clean city.
A block from these buildings are single family houses which start at the $400,000 mark.
The ghost house as it is known by the locals. The apartment dwellers cut a hole through the fence of the property and use the property as a pathway to the local school. The owners then repair the fence, and the apartment dwellers cut it again. The grounds were very creepy and I can see why the local kids call it the ghost house. All other homes on the street are occupied and well maintained. This house for some reason is kept vacant by the owner.
Ghost House makeshift path.
Crosswalk infront of the Ghose House. Tall trees try to hide the high-rises.
Narrow sidewalks cause people to walk on the grass.
Makeshift pathways
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Miketoronto
Last edited by miketoronto; Oct 7, 2010 at 9:51 PM.
There's dozens of neighbourhoods that look like that in KW and St. Catharines alone, let alone a big city like Toronto. And honestly, they're not that bad.
And seriously, posting those pictures into a section of SSP that is largely used by Americans and calling it a slum is going to warrant some laughs.
Have you even been in those buildings? The condos are pretty well maintained for their age. Some even have concierges. The rentals aren't too shabby either. Far from being a slum. Oh yes; the area must be a slum because the condos in these 70s slabs don't sell at downtown's ridiculous pricing and finding a white person is like finding Waldo.
I don't care. You're a frack'n Rob Ford and an embarassment to all other Toronto forumers. I hope you both end up 3000 miles away from this centre of centres. It's unforunate as there is something worthy of discussion underneath the gross generations supported by misinterpreted stats and flat out ridiculousness.
Nice shots, but I do have to agree with the other posters here. I have traveled a lot and lived in various locales. A couple musings here: a) I recall seeing rougher areas than this in Greater Toronto, and b) if this tour is indeed representative of what you deem to be the worst of the worst for Toronto - which I question - then you folks should be the absolute, unrivaled envy of the entire world.
I do appreciate your photographs, but I have to be honest.... I now live in WINNIPEG. The 'hood you pictured here would actually be desirable here; it's fairly dense and there's green space where surface area parking lots could be. If the above area was as neglected as Winnipeg got, we would easily have 50,000 more people living here.
I think you have a wonderful city in many regards, and I have enjoyed some of your past contributions to this site. However, if you regard this area as gritty or impoverished, I would advise you never to set foot in another city, or risk being horribly overwhelmed.
However, if you regard this area as gritty or impoverished, I would advise you never to set foot in another city, or risk being horribly overwhelmed.
anyway, I guess we should consider the thread title is actually a representative of the oldest trick ever... you create a title which will lower the expectations of those people entering the thread, who will enter expeting the worse.
than, you post photos of actually likeable places, and people will talk wonders about the city
You guys may think it does not "look that bad". But the fact of the matter is everything is decaying in that block bounded by those towers. The public streets are all wearing out, the buildings themselves are centres of pest infestation, elevators that don't work properly, safety issues, public spaces like pools left to rot, playgrounds left to rot, etc. The surroundings are just not maintained and it is not pleasant. One building in this area just had a major bed bug problem, etc.
The living conditions are not that great at all. I don't know about you, but I would not want to be living in a building with balconies that are actually sagging.
There is a semi small issue with overcrowding going on in a number of the buildings in this area. Units designed to house two people are now housing double families.
The buildings are in a state of utter disrepair that is approaching slum landlord status in many situations.
It may not look that bad in pictures. But trust me in person it is not pretty. It is actually pretty sad seeing garbage thrown everywhere, people who have no choice living in buildings with very little upkeep, and a public realm which does not meet the needs of residents.
The area is in bad shape in the core where those buildings are, and they need help.
And as for the comment about the condos. Yes three of the slab buildings are condos(two of them are not easy to see in those photos). And you know what, yeah they are cheap. And because up keep is not that good, the units are tough to sell. People are trying to unload the units and can't. There is an issue with people not living in the condos and just waiting for some buyer to buy the unit, etc. The condo buildings have seen some better up keep in recent years, and I think that is because it has gotten to the point that people could not sell their units under any circumstances as no one would buy. $129,000 for a three bedroom unit in Toronto. That outstanding price tells you something is wrong in most cases. Considering condos in newer buildings across the street go for double that or more.
The area needs help. You can not say there is not neglect there. And this has wider implications. Residents in these buildings have such a bad experience, that the minute they can they leave Toronto for Brampton(we were told that is a popular destination) and other suburbs. The residents don't even want to buy houses in the area, etc, as they have such a sour taste for the whole area.
The retail has gone from middle class business that people actually go to, to an array of business that come and goe almost on a monthy basis and a bunch of cash chequing services.
It may seem weird to call it bad or whatever. But yeah in Scarborough you can't find many other intersections/neighbourhoods in worse shape than this. Even Malvern which has a high crime rate is much better kept than this.
And what are we supposed to do? Wait for it to get worse, before addressing the issues?
Should we wait for a balcony to fall off?
I think it is utterly ridiculous that building owners can leave pools full of stagnet water and leave them to rot, or leave broken lights just standing there for years on end. Or not take care of pest issues in their buildings, etc.
The area is a mess and if you lived in the general area like I do, you would know how fed up people are with this corner. People don't want to go down there. Banks are not lending a developer any money to build a project on the location of the mall, as the area is considered too much of a gamble, etc.
Poverty is high, kids are not graduating high-school, etc. So yeah it may not look as bad as real real slums in other places. But the area needs help and if it goes not get it now than it could get much worse if just left unchecked.
Sure you guys may not consider it a slum. And I don't consider it a 100% slum. But believe it or not a lot of residents in the area do consider it a slum. So the title just represents what a lot of people think. I was in a public meeting where a resident was talking about the "vertical slums".
So yeah this is not a slum by international standards. But should we wait for it to be that bad before something is done?
In all fairness, I hate to see anyone on here dogpiled on, and I appreciate seeing "asymmetrical" photos of cities/metros. I did go back and try to see things to support the language mike used to describe these blocks, and he make a few good points. Those buildings, and in the context of the greater neighborhood, all looks fine to me, however, hopefully a bargain and a safe place for folks with out a lot of means. I don't know Toronto very well, though, but I doubt those blocks only have bathrooms on the odd floors.
I see nothing wrong with forcing the landlords of these buildings to clean up. I have friends who have grown up in the buildings in this area and along the Markham Road corridor and it is not fun.
Lets see some of the issues.
-Bed bugs
-Broken water pipes in the hallways leading to hallways full of water for months on end.
-No hot water on upper floors.
-Elevators always out of service or that don't operate safely. One building is famous for the elevators stopping at the floor you did not push the button for.
-Garbage in many places
-Unkept common areas.
-Apartment units which need fixing. Some have floors with tiles that just come off, etc.
The living conditions are very poor, and I don't think you guys would want to live in these buildings. They need fixing, and the general lack of upkeep is bringing the neighbourhood down. Like I said, people don't want to invest in it. It is just sitting there in decay.
The area those buildins are in has seen an 18% drop in population.
I mean is this an issue with a number of shitty, yet powerful landlords or a trans-metropolitan pattern of decay? I hate to be a dick but there's always going to be shit landlords...the sloughing off of an entire quarter is a different issue, however, but I'm heartened by the property values of the homes nearby. I'm certainly not saying its OK for people to have to live in shit properties, especially when they don't have the means to easily change addresses, but I don't think "slum" is appropriate with the mix of property values like that within such a small area. I live across from a large, rather messed up apartment building I am constantly having to call the police to (and near a lot of others), but the neighborhood is a fantastic mix of incomes, and I absolutely would not call the area a slum.
Last edited by Centropolis; Oct 8, 2010 at 2:41 AM.
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