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  #281  
Old Posted May 8, 2009, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrington south View Post
it's not just the cladding that contributes too the 15 year old feel to the nova center...the form of the the squarish slab like towers is anything but cutting edge and you could practical drape them in titanium and still have an outdated and uninspiring set of high rises.... the form a building takes , and the quality of materials used are very important factors in aesthetically pleasing, super modern architecture but also the way in which material's are used make a large contribution , for example, the way the podium has bands of blueish glass and the silver (metal?) just reeks of the 90's to me, now bluish glass and silver colored metal when used properly can definitely be cutting edge...not in this case though....and also...like someone123 said....the section with the sign appears to be prefab.....well, it could get worse....imagine stucco...
I hadn't noticed it before someone earlier in this thread pointed it out, but the overall layout really does remind me of a smaller scale Scotia Square (just replace brutalist concrete with glass). Having looked down at the view of Scotia Square from my apartment over the past 10 years, I can say I've never been a fan. The longer I have to digest this rendering, the more I hope this design is still open to some changes.
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  #282  
Old Posted May 8, 2009, 8:36 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
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Originally Posted by Empire View Post
Put the stadium in Africville c/w boardwalk hotel marina etc. It would be connected to Seaview park and there could be ferry shuttles to downtown. Barrington shuttles would be very efficient if Barrington St. north is ever brought into this century as a major commuter route.
I admire your 'outside the box' thinking... but there's not enough room in that location. That's a very narrow strip of land. It might be 100 meters wide at the widest spot.

Last edited by Takeo; May 8, 2009 at 10:44 PM.
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  #283  
Old Posted May 8, 2009, 11:59 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Only part of that site falls under the viewplanes and the ramparts bylaw allows much more than 8 or 9 storeys, as mentioned, particularly for the lower block.

The Midtown proposal was not in violation of any hard regulation -- nobody bothers proposing things like that.
The rampart bylaw and the viewplanes are also bolstered by some height restrictions within three blocks of the Citadel. The Midtown wasn't in a viewplane, but it was certainly within the three block area where building heights are limited due to proximity to the hill. One block below the hill, the 'soft' maximum is 4 floors; the height limit increases in an undefined manner as you move away from the hill. A 17 storey tower one block from a 4 floor limit is pretty amibitious. Personally I think they were nuts trying to get the Midtown approved. I don't agree with HT often, but the Midtown was pretty clearly breaking the rules and community council never should have approved it. URB made a good call in overturning council.

HRMbyDesign isn't getting rid of the Viewplanes, so if Nova Centre is in a viewplane, and gets approved, this could turn into quite a shit show.
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  #284  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 1:53 PM
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I dunno, I really don't mind the cladding it could have a little something more done to it. But it's not as bad as other developments, like scotia square which everyone is comparing it to. I really enjoy the possibility for this to revitalize the area and bring more people down town. I very rarely get up there, spring garden and barrington is where I confine myself to. And the board walk.
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  #285  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 2:54 PM
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Jonovision Jonovision is offline
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I don't think the cladding looks that bad either. Sure its not bold ground breaking architecture. But if you look in most North American cities the vast majority of projects aren't ground breaking or ultra modern either. That's no excuse. But I still think its a good design. I like the look of the financial tower. The way the renderings show it, it looks like the facade on the sides of the tower are almost like one giant pannel. It's kinda cool. And my understanding from talking with Ramia is that the design is still quite fluid and open to change.
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  #286  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 4:24 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I don't think the cladding looks that bad either. Sure its not bold ground breaking architecture. But if you look in most North American cities the vast majority of projects aren't ground breaking or ultra modern either. That's no excuse. But I still think its a good design. I like the look of the financial tower. The way the renderings show it, it looks like the facade on the sides of the tower are almost like one giant pannel. It's kinda cool. And my understanding from talking with Ramia is that the design is still quite fluid and open to change.
Yeah, its a generic rendering, the cladding will probably be decent.
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  #287  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 4:39 PM
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Barrington south Barrington south is offline
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wordly, I think the first project for HDC should be trying to get a more modern redesign of the nova center to happen.... there are many feature's that make this a great project for hali, and I think we should voice our support for these aspects , while at the same time gently acknowledging, that a more mode architecturally updated project, that maintains these positive features, would be most beneficial for Halifax in general and make the project much more of a signature development...what are your thoughts on this?....the reason I think this should take precedent, is because it is going to be such a major milestone for Halifax, and it seems that it is going to happen in the very near future....i Think now is the time to start making a difference....your thoughts?
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  #288  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 5:23 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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i think we need more info and better renderings... overall i find the distribution of the land to be efficient.

the atrium feature has utility given our climate and adds an interesting feature to the street... i think the design is actually so cliche that it will be landmark.

time will tell when we get more concrete (sorry about the pun) details.
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  #289  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly View Post
The rampart bylaw and the viewplanes are also bolstered by some height restrictions within three blocks of the Citadel. The Midtown wasn't in a viewplane, but it was certainly within the three block area where building heights are limited due to proximity to the hill. One block below the hill, the 'soft' maximum is 4 floors; the height limit increases in an undefined manner as you move away from the hill. A 17 storey tower one block from a 4 floor limit is pretty amibitious. Personally I think they were nuts trying to get the Midtown approved. I don't agree with HT often, but the Midtown was pretty clearly breaking the rules and community council never should have approved it. URB made a good call in overturning council.

HRMbyDesign isn't getting rid of the Viewplanes, so if Nova Centre is in a viewplane, and gets approved, this could turn into quite a shit show.
I don't think the towers are in any viewplanes.

There are plenty of buildings along Brunswick Street that are much taller than four floors. I agree that the Midtown was pushing it (originally actually 19 I think..?) but the new proposal is only 14. I personally think that would look totally fine, particularly since the viewplanes prevent the construction of a big wall of taller buildings near the Citadel - this is likely the only development of that scale that would go up in that specific area for a long time.
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  #290  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 8:31 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
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Originally Posted by Barrington south View Post
wordly, I think the first project for HDC should be trying to get a more modern redesign of the nova center to happen....
Well... the design firm is FWB (Citadel High)... which is a local firm that does solid work. It will be a decent building... actually a good building... but I wouldn't expect anything ground-breaking. It's not going to be published. Personally... I'd love to see Brian engaged in a large project for Halifax. Not withstanding the dull exterior of the Dal Computer Science Building... he creates consistently award-wining, well-published, world class work. And he's a local kid!?!?! His work for Brock University and U of T is awesome.
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  #291  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 10:04 PM
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The Dal CS Building is kind of dull looking from outside but the interior works well (I don't want to know how many hours I spent in there.. ) and overall I think it is attractive. It would be nice if Brian MacKay-Lyons designed the new library.

I agree with your assessment of Fowler Bauld & Mitchell. Some of it comes down to the quality of projects the firms get, budgets, and what clients ask for. Buildings paid for by the govt of NS for example are not going to be on par with corporate trophy buildings (of which there is maybe only one in the whole city, and it is from the 1930s).

I do think the project would look pretty decent if the ground floor were simply opened up a bit.

Beyond that, the reality is that Halifax has seen very very little construction downtown in decades. It would be a mistake to build garbage but people who want perfect proposals are probably going to be waiting for a while (United Gulf and the Salter Block are nice but they have yet to be actually built).
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  #292  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 10:39 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
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I agree with your assessment of Fowler Bauld & Mitchell. Some of it comes down to the quality of projects the firms get, budgets, and what clients ask for. Buildings paid for by the govt of NS for example are not going to be on par with corporate trophy buildings.
Oh yes... of course. To some degree you're only as good as your clients. And the way to end up doing great "trophy" projects is to only accept those kinds of projects. But that's much easier said than done.

As for the Dal CS building... I heard that it was originally designed as a glass box... but Dal insisted on using that ugly metal cladding because it was a great deal and would save them a crazy amount of money. I have no idea if that's true.
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  #293  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 11:39 PM
ScovaNotian ScovaNotian is offline
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
As for the Dal CS building... I heard that it was originally designed as a glass box... but Dal insisted on using that ugly metal cladding because it was a great deal and would save them a crazy amount of money. I have no idea if that's true.
I think the reason they scrapped the glass was the fear of high costs for heating and cooling, not so much that of the material.
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  #294  
Old Posted May 10, 2009, 1:04 AM
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YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geeze what a time to not be living in Halifax... :-(

The Nova Center could serve as a catalyst for more construction downtown and it will make a welcome addition to the skyline

Keepin my fingers crossed.
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  #295  
Old Posted May 10, 2009, 2:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
As for the Dal CS building... I heard that it was originally designed as a glass box... but Dal insisted on using that ugly metal cladding because it was a great deal and would save them a crazy amount of money. I have no idea if that's true.
I am not sure of all of the details but the Dal CSB was definitely rushed when first built. Apparently it was originally down below the management building in terms of construction projects. I believe it may have gone ahead without some university funding as a result. Not sure if that decision was made before or after decisions like what to use for cladding, etc.
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  #296  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:13 AM
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Last round for Midtown owner
Grant says family atmosphere took downtown tavern a long way
By BILL SPURR Features Writer | Five Questions
Mon. Jun 8 - 4:46 AM

The closing date isn’t absolutely final, but as it stands now, June 25 is the last day the Midtown Tavern will be open for business at the corner of Grafton and Prince streets, where it’s been since 1949.

The building will be demolished to make way for the city’s new convention centre, but Eric and Bob Grant, sons of owner Doug Grant, will move the business to a new location just down the street.

Eric Grant has been working at the Midtown for 31 years.

Q. When you turn the locks here for the last time, what will you miss the most about this space, this room?

A. I’m not going to say the people, because the people are hopefully going to follow us somewhere else. I can walk around this place with my eyes closed, you know where everything is. That’s going to be the issue, going somewhere else. I know where everything’s at around here, same as Dad knew where everything’s at. That’s one thing.

Q. You had the chance to have a tavern in the new convention centre, you considered moving somewhere else and you thought for a while it must just be the end of the Midtown. When you were considering all those options, what were the factors that you were weighing?

A. Besides the fact that I’m 50 and most of the guys around here are the same, or close, it’s tough to start something new at this stage of the game. Nobody here is ready to retire. They’re just trying to make a living and pay the bills, us included. The Midtown is Doug Grant, and what it’s become would never have got done if it hadn’t been for my dad’s hard work, treating people right, getting the bad people out of here, getting rid of them, so the nice people can come here and not worry about who’s sitting there behind them, like you have to at some places.

Q. Now that you’ve decided where you’re going to go, when you get there, will you try to duplicate the look of this place?

A. We’re going into business with the guys down there. It’s going to be sort of, we think, the best of both worlds in a way. We’re going to try to be the Midtown. We don’t do much business late at night. We close at 11. Food shuts down at quarter after 10 and we’re going to try and keep that going the same way. It’s going to be us and our menu and our food and we’ll do what we do, which we think we do pretty good, up until 10-10:30 at night. John and Scotty, who own Boomers — we’re going into a partnership with them — will do their thing at nighttime. They do what they do late at night, and they do half-decent, three or four nights a week. Hopefully, that’ll get better, some of our customers might decide to stay when they’re having a good time, maybe have a couple of drinks, maybe dance.

Q. What will it be called?


A.The Midtown sign will be outside there and it’s going to be in the name somewhere. It’s gotta be. We’ve got a loyal bunch of customers who are telling me and telling the guys here, this has got to be somewhere, and we will come.

Q. What is it that makes people feel so strongly about this place?

A. When people are heading out the door, (they get) ‘See ya, guys. Thanks,’ whether I got to holler it across the tavern or what. They turn, ‘You’re welcome. See ya later.’ My wife says that goes a long ways. I tell people, it’s kind of corny, but it’s a big family around here. There’s people that just want us to say hi and serve them, there’s people that expect to get both barrels and if I don’t give it to them, they say ‘What’s wrong with you?’ Everybody’s different. I had a guy here this afternoon, he came in with a picture of his son sitting on the bar 11 years ago. He was eight years old. Today, he had his beer at the Midtown, proud as a peacock to be here with all his dad’s buddies. He had three beer. I forced the third one on him. I get guys who come here when they’ve had a bad day, and it’s kind of nice to be that crutch for people sometimes.
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  #297  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2009, 11:50 AM
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This place is closing sooner than I would have thought. Perhaps construction on this is going to happen quicker than I expected...
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  #298  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 1:11 AM
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This place is closing sooner than I would have thought. Perhaps construction on this is going to happen quicker than I expected...
Anyone figured out what happens to this if the election is say another government ie NDP?
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  #299  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 1:34 AM
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Anyone figured out what happens to this if the election is say another government ie NDP?
If it is the NDP I'd wager to say the money will probably be safe. The NDP is largely based out of HRM so anything to benefit their voters will probably be supported.

But my theory is the Midtown is moving out so the owners can demolish the buildings to save property tax charges.
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  #300  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2009, 2:00 AM
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If it is the NDP I'd wager to say the money will probably be safe. The NDP is largely based out of HRM so anything to benefit their voters will probably be supported.
Dont count on that...I can just hear it now. the money would be better to go into keeping ER's open they will be saying.
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