Population of Winnipeg CMA (July 1, 2015)

[LilZebra]

Yeah, those projects on that list were mainly publicly funded, except for maybe IKEA (probably got a 0% "land tax" for the next 50 yrs.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by jimj_wpg

Yeah, those projects on that list were mainly publicly funded, except for maybe IKEA (probably got a 0% "land tax" for the next 50 yrs.

There were definitely subsidies involved in the project.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I remember that article too.

Winnipeg's population has certainly grown and I'd say the city has improved in terms of the quality of life it offers as compared to the late 90s when we were more noticeably behind other similarly-sized cities, but I think we still have room for improvement.

Although then again, when you think about the list of new or improved infrastructure and other key amenities over the last 10-15 years, a lot has happened:

-New airport terminal
-First phase of rapid transit system began
-Road expansion (CCW, Peguis Trail Extension)
-MTS Centre and return of the NHL
-Convention Centre expansion
-Investors Group Field
-Millennium Library expansion/renovation
-CMHR
-IKEA (scoff if you must but this was a big deal for a lot of people)
-campus expansions at U of W and RRC

There really was a bit of a boom for a while there. However, it does seem that there is much less on the boards right now even though our population is creeping up to that 750-800K mark... I suppose the last few years of economic instability put the brakes on all that action.

Looking at that list and knowing the history of all those projects...notice anything ? Government. That's not a sign of growth, that's a sign of a government that likes to look like it's doing something for the voters. Yes, they're not all government buildings per se but a substantial portion of the funding for some of the private projects was still publicly funded.

I'm not trying to pooh-pooh any of it and I know that the government of any given jurisdiction likes to support the market when it can but those were our most expansive projects. Would they have happened without government intervention ? Doubtful (obviously roadworks are a separate matter)

I know that there's been significant growth in Winnipeg but little of the private stuff has been face-changing. I'm happy with mid-rises of course but I really wouldn't cite a lot of those projects as evidence of Winnipeg's resurgence.

[Biff]

From the Canada Thread

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Quarterly growth by province...

ON - 16,529
AB - 15,365
BC - 7,620
QC - 5,560
MB - 2,359
SK - 1,762
YK - 200
NV - 184

All other provinces and territories saw negative population growth.

Candada - 46,893



12-month population growth...

ON - 109,886
AB - 88,770
QB - 54,866
BC - 50,266
MB - 15,606
SK - 14,273
NS - 736
NV - 636
YK - 564
PEI - 504

All other provinces and territories saw negative population growth.

Canada - 333,421


Source: http://www.stats.gov.nl.ca/statistic...y_Pop_Prov.pdf

[BigG]

With our ageing population and shortage of workers, I think it's the perfect time to boost our tax base, economy and population by following the lead of Germany. We should take in as much refugees from Syria and Northern Africa as we can. We sure as hell need them because we can't rely on current birth rates to do it. Canadians just aren't having children like we used to for various reasons. Be it cost, career or other priorities in life.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by BigG

With our ageing population and shortage of workers, I think it's the perfect time to boost our tax base, economy and population by following the lead of Germany. We should take in as much refugees from Syria and Northern Africa as we can. We sure as hell need them because we can't rely on current birth rates to do it. Canadians just aren't having children like we used to for various reasons. Be it cost, career or other priorities in life.

Refugees don't necessarily translate into economic growth. How many are trained in anything that approaches Canadian standards ? Living in a developing country has taught me that you don't want a doctor from a place where witchcraft and superstition makes up just as much a part of the medical cannon as does science.

How many factory jobs do we have ? Sure, we can train them but if that's the case why don't we train the people who were born here first ? What you really get in the case of major refugee influxes is a large increase in taxation, not the tax base. Only many years later does it turn into growth.

Also, as refugees, how many actually want to be Canadians ? Most simply want to escape the bombs which is reasonable but after we've paid the costs associated with housing, training, and other living expenses they can just as easily leave. Without that desire to stay and become Canadian citizens they remain incompatible with Canadian culture.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by BigG

With our ageing population and shortage of workers, I think it's the perfect time to boost our tax base, economy and population by following the lead of Germany. We should take in as much refugees from Syria and Northern Africa as we can. We sure as hell need them because we can't rely on current birth rates to do it. Canadians just aren't having children like we used to for various reasons. Be it cost, career or other priorities in life.

I know this is not politically correct, but I have to say it, as I'm sure it is on the back of most people's minds (although nobody will admit it). We should be selective about which countries we accept immigrants from. North Africa and Syria are not desirable countries for obvious reasons. Just look at the results. France, Holland, Germany, England, and Scandinavian countries have done this, and it has created huge problem with a certain demographic.

Let's stick to what works. Europe, Sub-Saharan Africa, Asia (excluding the Middle East), and Australia/Oceania will more than fill that void.

[OverUnder]

Syrians are far more politically, culturally, and religiously moderate than a lot of the countries you cited. I would have no problem with Canada taking in 250k over the next five years.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by OverUnder

Syrians are far more politically, culturally, and religiously moderate than a lot of the countries you cited. I would have no problem with Canada taking in 250k over the next five years.

It`s fine as long as you give these people jobs and help them to acclimatise to Canadian culture. I see a lot of immigrants fail in my line of work simply because they struggle to adapt to our way of life. I understand why we need to take these people in, but I fail to see a plan that addresses how they will do in Canada in the long run...

[BigG]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Refugees don't necessarily translate into economic growth. How many are trained in anything that approaches Canadian standards ? Living in a developing country has taught me that you don't want a doctor from a place where witchcraft and superstition makes up just as much a part of the medical cannon as does science.

How many factory jobs do we have ? Sure, we can train them but if that's the case why don't we train the people who were born here first ? What you really get in the case of major refugee influxes is a large increase in taxation, not the tax base. Only many years later does it turn into growth.

Also, as refugees, how many actually want to be Canadians ? Most simply want to escape the bombs which is reasonable but after we've paid the costs associated with housing, training, and other living expenses they can just as easily leave. Without that desire to stay and become Canadian citizens they remain incompatible with Canadian culture.

Maybe not in the short term, but what I'm looking at is the long term. Perfect examples are the boat people that came from Southeast Asia in the seventies and early eighties. They've assimilated well in our society, have become business owners and/or professionals, especially the ones that were born here.

As far as places where witchcraft and superstitions go, is that not the case in Europe two and three hundred years ago? And even in the present. In that span of time, where did the immigrants in North America come from? The truth is, doctors that come from war ravaged countries are very experienced in treating severe trauma, perhaps, more so than their North American counterparts. Given the opportunity, IMO, they would excel in Canadian ERs.

As far as manufacturing goes, we do train people that were born here and everyone else for that matter. The question is, who are the people applying for those jobs? Many immigrants that land those jobs work hard and prosper because they know exactly what they had or didn't have where they came from and remain until retirement.

We surely can't speak for refugees concerning their desire to become citizens of Canada. You are correct. Their first priority IS to get the hell out of Dodge and secure the safety of their families. Many have become citizens after seeing how great this country of ours is despite the grievances aired in these forums. Receiving and accepting refugees is a win win. We help our fellow man in their time of need and desperation. In turn, perhaps not in the immediate sense, but they do contribute to our society and boost our population deficit. And through all this, what flourishes is our Canadian culture.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by BigG

Maybe not in the short term, but what I'm looking at is the long term.

Well, actually that's the issue. Somebody has to pay for those people in the meantime. Canada can't meet immigration quotas because we can't get enough of the people we actually need. We don't just take everybody who knocks on the door.

Originally Posted by BigG

As far as places where witchcraft and superstitions go, is that not the case in Europe two and three hundred years ago?

200 years ago when there still wasn't any science in medicine, sure. Either way, do you really want your common cold to be treated with magic tea ? So no, we don't just allow people who are doctors in their own countries to practice in Canada unless they have the proper credentials. I don't think you appreciate how different medicine is in the developing world. It's not medicine at all and I guarantee that you wouldn't allow a witch doctor to treat your children if they were seriously ill.

Originally Posted by BigG

The truth is, doctors that come from war ravaged countries are very experienced in treating severe trauma, perhaps, more so than their North American counterparts.

Those are surgeons and it's not enough to say that they can perform surgery. They also have to know what to do after the surgery is done and that's where you run into issues. We don't need trauma surgeons because Canada isn't a war zone. So what can they do in the meantime especially if they know little about pharmacology ?

Originally Posted by BigG

As far as manufacturing goes, we do train people that were born here and everyone else for that matter. The question is, who are the people applying for those jobs? Many immigrants that land those jobs work hard and prosper because they know exactly what they had or didn't have where they came from and remain until retirement.

Not for free we don't train them. If you're a Canadian you get "free" training through Worker's Comp or some other program. Refugees have not contributed anything monetarily so they're both a gross and net drain. In any case, it's not about having not paid anything in first, it's about 10,000 people not having paid anything in first. There's a serious scaling issue here.

Also, you don't know how many stay because you only meet the ones who stay.

Originally Posted by BigG

Receiving and accepting refugees is a win win.

No, it's a gamble. Remember a few years ago when Canada had to pick up 13,000 Canadian citizens in Lebanon at a cost of roughly 85 million? Why ? Because they were Lebanese but had come to Canada at some point and then returned to Lebanon. Fine,...their choice. So why are we supporting people who chose to return to Lebanon with training, tax credits, etc., ? Well, that's hardly a one-off. That's often what happens because refugees don't come with the goal of becoming Canadians and building a life in Canada. They come for relief. Well, that's fine but do the math.

Originally Posted by BigG

We help our fellow man in their time of need and desperation. In turn, perhaps not in the immediate sense, but they do contribute to our society and boost our population deficit.

We don't have a population deficit because we already take immigrants. The difference is that we carefully select who can immigrate. Helping people is a laudable goal and I'm not against providing shelter to people on a temporary basis. However, without a refugee having made a serious effort to attempt integration, cultural and social adaptation, and essentially proving that he or she is interested in staying and contributing, I see no good reason to grant much more than temporary residency. Remember, none of this is free and our pockets aren't endlessly deep. You simply can't speak for the other 35 million Canadians most of whom are paying for everybody else and are keeping an eye on those numbers.

Originally Posted by BigG

And through all this, what flourishes is our Canadian culture.

This is a non-argument. By what mechanism does our culture flourish ? Of what benefit is it necessarily ? In what manner exactly does our culture flourish ?

I have no problem with taking a certain number of refugees but we can't save the world and I'd rather avoid unnecessary costs. And yes, I can and am putting a price tag on the lives of refugees, fluffy talk be damned. You say take as many as possible. I say that that's completely irresponsible and you have a duty to your fellow Canadians first. Assess the costs and then make a determination. Throwing the doors open is definitely not the answer. Likewise, it's not a good idea to use Germany as an example. The first cracks are showing and it didn't take long either.

[BigG]

^^^Well, I made no mention of doctors coming into Canada and immediately allowing them to practice. I'm fully aware that they still need to retrain in accordance to Canadian standards. But it's not as if they need to take Medicine all over again. Harping on the witch doctor issue is pointless, because I, like you guaranteed, would not see one for medical issues - many would not. I'm speaking of actual doctors. BTW, surgeons are doctors too. We don't need surgeons?

When one applies for a job and gets accepted they are always trained by the employer. It's not as if they are told, "Have at her." In order to benefit from WCB or EI training programs, one must be on WCB or EI. Meaning they must work first and have least contributed to those programs. Albeit not completely. Refugees and immigrants have worked wherever they came from. Therefore it's not like they know nothing.

Granted, I can't state exactly how many stay, but can you say how many have left? Aside from the Lebanese, how about the others? Where do they go? We don't have have a population deficit? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

The cost of bringing in refugees is substantial. I know that. I don't speak for all Canadians, I simply speak for myself. Although perhaps a few would agree with me. You ask how Canada flourishes through immigration? We are all immigrants and refugees here, save the Aboriginals. Whether, it's us, our grandparents or even great great grandparents. They left their homes in search of a better life, looking for relief from the tribulations and trials in their own country. This country was built on the backs of immigrants. On a lighter note, tea with lemon gives great relief for the common cold.

[Spocket]

No, you need to make a distinction between a doctor and a surgeon. A surgeon can perform surgery but that doesn't mean they're up to Canadian standards in any other aspect.

Secondly, just because somebody worked doing whatever in their country of origin should obviously not mean they've put any money into the Canadian system. Of course they haven't. Unless we have factory jobs for all these immigrants (we don't) then they'll need to be trained for some other vocation. That's %100 on the backs of Canadian taxpayers.

Where they come from and where they go is anybody's guess but immigrants move all the time. I'm not claiming to know how many leave but I'm willing to bet that refugees return home in greater numbers than do those selected for immigration. They didn't necessarily want to leave in the first place so I'm sure that plenty of them go back home when the danger has passed.
Also, Canada has no population deficit. I'm not sure you're using the word the way you think it's supposed to be used. If you're trying to say that more people are dying than are being born then you need to check the statistics again. According to this we're still growing : http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/91-520-...tbl2.3-eng.htm

Originally Posted by BigG

You ask how Canada flourishes through immigration?

No, that's not what I asked and it's not what you said. You spoke of culture not population growth or the components thereof.

Originally Posted by BigG

On a lighter note, tea with lemon gives great relief for the common cold.

In China the cure for everything is hot water.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Jammon

It`s fine as long as you give these people jobs and help them to acclimatise to Canadian culture. I see a lot of immigrants fail in my line of work simply because they struggle to adapt to our way of life. I understand why we need to take these people in, but I fail to see a plan that addresses how they will do in Canada in the long run...

We have a large segment of out population without jobs, maybe we should get them in the workforce before we start worrying about people who aren't even here yet!

[BigG]

^^Perhaps deficit is not the word to use. What I mean is Canada needs more people. The result of more people coming from around the globe enriches the culture in our country.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

We have a large segment of out population without jobs, maybe we should get them in the workforce before we start worrying about people who aren't even here yet!

I call bullshit. I have family that immigrated here in the 80s, using your logic they should have been rejected because they'd take jobs from people. Every one of my cousins now owns a successful business and together they employ dozens if not hundreds of people. And these weren't wealthy, highly educated English speakers... they came here with little money and no English.

In my experience, immigrants are often the ones who start small businesses because the desirable white collar jobs are simply inaccessible to them. Southern Manitoba in particular is absolutely rife with examples.

[BigG]

^^^

Totally agree.

[Ando]

Agreed, this country, like many, was built on immigration. And it's accepted pretty much everywhere that immigration is part of a strong economic strategy. An economy needs all sorts of skill sets to thrive. It's not either or. Finding employment for existing members of society and immigrants can be complementary not opposing.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by esquire

I call bullshit. I have family that immigrated here in the 80s, using your logic they should have been rejected because they'd take jobs from people. Every one of my cousins now owns a successful business and together they employ dozens if not hundreds of people. And these weren't wealthy, highly educated English speakers... they came here with little money and no English.

In my experience, immigrants are often the ones who start small businesses because the desirable white collar jobs are simply inaccessible to them. Southern Manitoba in particular is absolutely rife with examples.

And they were selected for immigration, right ? Or did they come as refugees ? The difference is one of intent.

I see that people here aren't clearly reading what I'm writing. I'm not talking about immigrants as a whole, I'm talking about refugees in large numbers.

[Riverman]

This is an interesting look at immigration.

https://youtu.be/LPjzfGChGlE