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  #3961  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2011, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RyeJay View Post
The FIFA idea should be tossed, honestly, if we are going to be serious about the CFL.

Let's build a LONG-TERM stadium.
That was exactly my thought; so when I did the survey I didn't support the proposed design (10/10). In my comments, I made it clear to toss the FIFA idea and go with at least 25K seats and aim for bigger and better. My preference still remains with Shannon, but if the goal is to toss FIFA then time is no longer a factor. Which means we can take the time necessary and potentially aquire the land.
     
     
  #3962  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2011, 4:42 PM
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The only reason to be mindful of FIFA is that it would be a justification for federal funding of the project.

The FIFA proposal however does narrow your timeline, and as such would likely place constraints on the design of your proposed stadium.

The idea of ignoring the FIFA timeline and concentrating on the best possible stadium for the city certainly has merit. In particular, you could take your time considering the best location for the facility and developing appropriate relationships with possible shareholders including the local universities.

It's a tough choice though, you risk losing out on federal funding.....
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  #3963  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2011, 5:09 PM
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The FIFA minimum requirement is 10K + 10K, however, it is the steering committee that decided on the minimum 10K + 10K concept, not FIFA. If you read the phase 1 report, it is clear that many of the steering committee members want to appear to be financially responsible by going with the minimum requirements. Tossing the FIFA event will not improve Halifax's chances of getting a CFL team; letting the steering committee know that gaining a CFL team is a top priority is a better direction to take, unless sports fan want to wait another 20 - 30 years for some other sports event to come along. The problem with the steering committee is that it is made up of mostly businessmen and women instead of sport fans. Their directive was to come up with a business plan for the stadium, i.e. a stadium with the least financial risk.

Any of us who have been following the local stadium discussions for the past 30 years will know that the city will not build a stadium for the CFL. The best that we can hope for is that the HRM will have the sense to build a stadium that can be easily expanded for the CFL. 15K of permanent seats will be closer to a CFL franchise than 10K (and much closer than no stadium at all).

There are a few misconceptions in the phase 1 report. One is that a CFL team will require a stadium that meets profession team standards. Well, professional team standards for the CFL is more like US college standards than NFL standards. A low-cost US college-type stadium will work well for the CFL. Also, a low-cost MLS-type stadium will work for the CFL (it can even have field-turf instead of grass since it is suitable for the FIFA Woman's Cup).
     
     
  #3964  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2011, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
The only reason to be mindful of FIFA is that it would be a justification for federal funding of the project.

The FIFA proposal however does narrow your timeline, and as such would likely place constraints on the design of your proposed stadium.

The idea of ignoring the FIFA timeline and concentrating on the best possible stadium for the city certainly has merit. In particular, you could take your time considering the best location for the facility and developing appropriate relationships with possible shareholders including the local universities.

It's a tough choice though, you risk losing out on federal funding.....
If we lose federal funding for our FIFA ambitions, then future opportunities shall arise.

FIFA is, by far, not the be-all-end-all of Halifax's stadium possibilities.

With the long-term nature of the shipbuilding contract Halifax is in an awesome position to make BIG investments in cultural assets such as a stadium--which is also long-term.

Halifax should not build a minimalist stadium for FIFA.
CFL standards should be where the debate begins.

Halifax is not a town, damnit. We've seen the numbers: we know we can obviously support a stadium--and this shipbuilding deal gives us the long-term economic security and leverage to afford something much bigger, and with much much bigger rewards.
     
     
  #3965  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2011, 9:06 PM
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I say we build this. Let's get Irving onboard. Don't forget the contract is $25 BILLION with a B.
     
     
  #3966  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RyeJay View Post
If we lose federal funding for our FIFA ambitions, then future opportunities shall arise.

FIFA is, by far, not the be-all-end-all of Halifax's stadium possibilities.

With the long-term nature of the shipbuilding contract Halifax is in an awesome position to make BIG investments in cultural assets such as a stadium--which is also long-term.

Halifax should not build a minimalist stadium for FIFA.
CFL standards should be where the debate begins.

Halifax is not a town, damnit. We've seen the numbers: we know we can obviously support a stadium--and this shipbuilding deal gives us the long-term economic security and leverage to afford something much bigger, and with much much bigger rewards.
well said, good post
     
     
  #3967  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2011, 10:23 PM
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I say we build this. Let's get Irving onboard. Don't forget the contract is $25 BILLION with a B.
I think that $60 million would build much of that stadium (at least 20,000 permanent seats, including folding seats which cost about about $150/seat installed - the seating cost estimate is from Edmonton Commonwealth Stadium seating replacement documents that I previously posted a link to). It doesn't have a roof and if the concourses are sheltered, open-air design like the InfoCision Stadium then it isn't as costly as many assume (it would be what is referred to as mostly type-B grandstands in the phase 1 report, except for the changeroom area grandstand which is referred to as type-A). It would depend on how much of the money is to be spend on land, parking and servicing.

I think a legitimate question is whether a Halifax area stadium needs a roof. For people who attend SMU Huskies games on a regular basis, how often have you been rained on?

(added info - links for the Edmonton Commonwealth Stadium seat replacement - http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/a...s&itemid=19309)

Last edited by fenwick16; Nov 7, 2011 at 11:38 PM. Reason: added information
     
     
  #3968  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2011, 1:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeJay View Post
If we lose federal funding for our FIFA ambitions, then future opportunities shall arise.

FIFA is, by far, not the be-all-end-all of Halifax's stadium possibilities.

With the long-term nature of the shipbuilding contract Halifax is in an awesome position to make BIG investments in cultural assets such as a stadium--which is also long-term.

Halifax should not build a minimalist stadium for FIFA.
CFL standards should be where the debate begins.

Halifax is not a town, damnit. We've seen the numbers: we know we can obviously support a stadium--and this shipbuilding deal gives us the long-term economic security and leverage to afford something much bigger, and with much much bigger rewards.
I agree totaly , but I fear that if we do throw FIFA to the wind , it may become ammo the same way as the failed CWG bid has, eventhough they do not compare in the slightest. It gives the naysayers one more , "look at the CWG or FIFA bids , wasting tax payers money " excuse , and could snow ball the negativity the same way all these HT,NIMBY,STV try to do.

But I would love to REALLY see the city sit down and do this the right way give us something to be proud of. It would be more fiscaly irresponsible for the city to build an inadequite $60m venue , that will not serve a purpose( or the right one), and sit and rust / delapitate like huskey stadium has than spend ,say $100m on a real venue put to use that makes us proud for decades to come. Look at some well built, "famous" stadiums and the pride that come with these venues. i.e Fenway, Yankee till last year, Shea stadium , The Forum in MTL , and many more .
     
     
  #3969  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2011, 1:50 AM
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In would appear that we need an event like FIFA to add any ligitimacy to a short term business case. Potentially, there are funds available from the Feds and FIFA for the world cup. Seems to me that a 15,000 permanent seat stadium with a roof, media centre and folding seats would work for now. The CFL will come once we get out of the gate.
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  #3970  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2011, 2:23 AM
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In would appear that we need an event like FIFA to add any ligitimacy to a short term business case. Potentially, there are funds available from the Feds and FIFA for the world cup. Seems to me that a 15,000 permanent seat stadium with a roof, media centre and folding seats would work for now. The CFL will come once we get out of the gate.
100% agreed, I wish we could do it without them, but.....
     
     
  #3971  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2011, 2:41 AM
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I hope that the stadium steering committee will listen to the opinions of the majority of HRM residents and do better than 10K + 10K. I believe the majority of residents would prefer more than 10K of permanent seats.

I am also hoping that the stadium architects will present a proposal for at least 15K of permanent seats that people can get excited about. It is very possible that if a 15K permanent seat stadium gets built that the additional 10K of permanent seats to make it CFL ready could cost as little as $20 million.

The troubling thing is that even if a 15K permanent seat stadium is proposed, it might not get past the provincial government.
     
     
  #3972  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2011, 2:58 AM
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Originally Posted by resetcbu1 View Post
I agree totaly , but I fear that if we do throw FIFA to the wind , it may become ammo the same way as the failed CWG bid has, eventhough they do not compare in the slightest. It gives the naysayers one more , "look at the CWG or FIFA bids , wasting tax payers money " excuse , and could snow ball the negativity the same way all these HT,NIMBY,STV try to do.

But I would love to REALLY see the city sit down and do this the right way give us something to be proud of. It would be more fiscaly irresponsible for the city to build an inadequite $60m venue , that will not serve a purpose( or the right one), and sit and rust / delapitate like huskey stadium has than spend ,say $100m on a real venue put to use that makes us proud for decades to come. Look at some well built, "famous" stadiums and the pride that come with these venues. i.e Fenway, Yankee till last year, Shea stadium , The Forum in MTL , and many more .
FIFA is what Halifax should be settling for if the NIMBYs are successful at tearing apart a more rational proposal.
     
     
  #3973  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2011, 4:08 AM
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FIFA is what Halifax should be settling for if the NIMBYs are successful at tearing apart a more rational proposal.
It should be a stadium designed for both the FIFA and CFL. Winnipeg is designing their new stadium so it can host the CFL and FIFA Women's Cup. Edmonton is using the FIFA Women's Cup to justify replacing all of their Commonwealth Stadium seats.

If the HRM goes ahead with a 10K permanent seat stadium then the decision has nothing to do with the FIFA Women's Cup. I am sure that FIFA would prefer 30K permanent seats. It is being made by HRM authorities. So how is passing up on the FIFA Women's Cup going to result in a 25K CFL stadium
     
     
  #3974  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2011, 4:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Empire View Post
In would appear that we need an event like FIFA to add any ligitimacy to a short term business case. Potentially, there are funds available from the Feds and FIFA for the world cup. Seems to me that a 15,000 permanent seat stadium with a roof, media centre and folding seats would work for now. The CFL will come once we get out of the gate.
I'm curious as to the cost of building a 10k+10k stadium...and then investing in later upgrades to bring the minimalist stadium up to CFL code.

That--compared to the cost of building a stadium sporting CFL standards from the get-go.

Do you not believe it stands to reason that the former is more costly?

I am aware of the federal government's current commitment to Halifax's FIFA goals, but I don't see how this implies future declines if we toss our FIFA plans.

Why would the feds get huffy?
     
     
  #3975  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2011, 3:59 PM
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Really?

So having our only federal cabinet minister "Peter MacKay said he personally would like to see a stadium, but added that Halifax already missed a chance for new sports facilities when it chose to abandon its bid for the 2014 Commonwealth Games." I can only imagine how absolutely hopeless he (who is our biggest fan in Ottawa) would see Halifax as we would have shot ourselves in both feet now and not have a leg to stand on when we come to the table for a third time.
We need to act fast because your going to see a drastic cut-back in Federal spending due to the MASSIVE 50 billion dollar annual deficit they have accrued from major procurement process's ie. Shipbuilding, F-35's and helicopter replacements.
One of the ideas while doing the survey I expressed was that to keep the operational costs down was using existing local technologies like LED street lights from Amherst to illuminate the parking lots and if Shannon Park is chosen as the winning site use geothermal storage much like the Alderney 5 project but on a larger scale as the parking lot will be quiet large for say a 20k stadium and begin talks with BIO and other federal agencies nearby to drastically cut their energy costs.
IMO FIFA is looking for a legacy to leave after the games and during the selection process if a very innovative and sustainable stadium was built it might fit the criteria as well as youth soccer programs to grow the sport locally.
     
     
  #3976  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2011, 6:13 PM
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If we had this stadium with a roof and 15,000 permanent seats it would be a great start. I think 15,000 permanent seats on the opposite side would follow fairly quickly. In the meantime we didn't break the bank. The initial 15,000 seats could be a combo of bench and folding. The bench seats could be upgraded later.

Great Option:
http://www.fannetasticfood.com/wp-co...10/06/0271.jpg
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  #3977  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2011, 2:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire View Post
If we had this stadium with a roof and 15,000 permanent seats it would be a great start. I think 15,000 permanent seats on the opposite side would follow fairly quickly. In the meantime we didn't break the bank. The initial 15,000 seats could be a combo of bench and folding. The bench seats could be upgraded later.

Great Option:
http://www.fannetasticfood.com/wp-co...10/06/0271.jpg
Love that stadium , and couldn't agree more.
     
     
  #3978  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2011, 8:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire View Post
If we had this stadium with a roof and 15,000 permanent seats it would be a great start. I think 15,000 permanent seats on the opposite side would follow fairly quickly. In the meantime we didn't break the bank. The initial 15,000 seats could be a combo of bench and folding. The bench seats could be upgraded later.

Great Option:
http://www.fannetasticfood.com/wp-co...10/06/0271.jpg
The Navy-Marine Corp Memorial Stadium is a great looking stadium. Although I may appear to be nit-picky, the Akron InfoCision Stadium is a better design with respect to wheelchair accessible seating, which is required by the National Building Code. I think the Navy-Marine Corps Stadium was built at a time when fewer wheelchair accessible spots were required in the US. If the InfoCision Stadium was built with mostly folding chairs then it would look similar to the Navy-Marine Corps Stadium.

The following two pictures are from the batch that I took at InfoCision Stadium. It is the wheelchair accessible area that is a better design. The wheelchair accessible areas are elevated and at street level. (Just imagine the stadium with navy blue folding seats throughout which would only cost about $2.5 - $3 million more than benches for a 25,000 seat stadium, which is based on the current cost estimate of replacing folding seats at Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium). Also imagine a stadium with concrete upper-tier riser platforms instead of aluminum, which is the case with the Navy-Marine Corps Stadium (it has concrete riser platforms which is better than aluminum, in my opinion).



Although my SketchUp models are simple conceptual models, the following illustrates a possible roof configuration that is similar in layout to the InfoCision Stadium design plus a modest partial roof and open area at the top (under the roof) for future club seats.

Last edited by fenwick16; Nov 10, 2011 at 1:47 PM.
     
     
  #3979  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2011, 1:33 PM
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The nice part about a stadium like this is that it wouldn't take long to build the stands. Very basic but a functioning design. I don't mind the exposed piping at all.
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  #3980  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2011, 1:36 PM
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This could be the largest stadium in Nova Scotia:

Riverside Speedway in Antigonish:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Riversi...id=po-15252899

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Riversi...170.22,,2,4.41
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