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  #481  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
But to play the devils advocate, there is probably an objectively lower risk factor for various border shenanigans when you're dealing with a clean-cut, Canadian born white guy. So I suppose it's not without valid reason.
I'm not sure this is the right way to look at it though. Even if you're a clean-cut white guy who always gets waved through, you're still paying for the border guards and you're still waiting in a line at the border.

It is better to think of this in terms of cost vs. benefit and the statistical likelihood of the various things that border guards might catch versus how much effort that takes and how effective they can be.

They are not very effective at finding terrorists through ad hoc questioning. It is impossible. Terrorists are extremely rare, and not that obviously different from non-terrorists. There are around 40 million legal border crossings per year and a terrorist attack happens every year or two (usually having nothing to do with the border). Virtually any test the border guard comes up with will result in a huge number of false positives, probably zero true positives, and a huge amount of waste. Most of their tests are based on the last terrorist (e.g. one guy was a shoe bomber) so they are completely useless against minimally creative terrorists.

The car parts that people aren't paying duty on probably aren't even worth more than what it takes to pay the border guards to find them.

A 10-minute delay in average border crossing times at the Canada-US border wastes the equivalent of about 10 human lifetimes per year and costs billions of dollars.

I'm not against effective security measures (e.g. metal detectors at airports) but they have to be demonstrably effective, and border guards should not be given carte blanche to hassle people.
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  #482  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 6:55 PM
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I find this whole situation scandalous and it makes a mockery of or very generous immigration policies. This is why the populace has so little confidence in our immigration system..........it penalizes the people who work thru the system and rewards those who don't. These people KNOW that they are breaking the law before they get here but that is irrelevant to them.

Canadians don't want people who's very first action upon arriving in the country is a criminal one. Anyone caught trying to crooss into Canada and caught doing so should be immediately sent to an official border crossing where they will be turned away without hesitation. This idea of them going thru the refugee process "quickly" is crap and there is no such thing. It will take many years to get rid of these people but in the mean time they get free medical, welfare, and social services while their kids take up spots in our schools and their parents take up valuable and high demand low-income housing.

Years ago I worked for the government and had someone declare refugee status......he was born and bred in Sacramento. I asked him why he was REALLY in Canada and he stated he needed some medical work done and wanted to enjoy the countryside courtesy of the Canadian taxpayer of course. Sounds absurd but it took a full 4 years to get him out of the country by the time the refugee board got around to him and all the endless appeals went thru the system.
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  #483  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I find this whole situation scandalous and it makes a mockery of or very generous immigration policies. This is why the populace has so little confidence in our immigration system..........it penalizes the people who work thru the system and rewards those who don't. These people KNOW that they are breaking the law before they get here but that is irrelevant to them.

Canadians don't want people who's very first action upon arriving in the country is a criminal one. Anyone caught trying to crooss into Canada and caught doing so should be immediately sent to an official border crossing where they will be turned away without hesitation. This idea of them going thru the refugee process "quickly" is crap and there is no such thing. It will take many years to get rid of these people but in the mean time they get free medical, welfare, and social services while their kids take up spots in our schools and their parents take up valuable and high demand low-income housing.
Neither you nor anyone else has presented a workable, legal, alternative. Put up, or, you know the rest.

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Years ago I worked for the government and had someone declare refugee status......he was born and bred in Sacramento. I asked him why he was REALLY in Canada and he stated he needed some medical work done and wanted to enjoy the countryside courtesy of the Canadian taxpayer of course. Sounds absurd but it took a full 4 years to get him out of the country by the time the refugee board got around to him and all the endless appeals went thru the system.
I totally believe that happened.
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  #484  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:04 PM
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^ Fair comment, but surely these CBSA officers are not just making it up as they go along... there must be some sort of policy or set of guidelines driven by something resembling a sound basis for implementing them?

Between Public Safety Canada and CBSA there are over 60,000 employees... presumably someone is paying close attention to how these matters should be handled and documenting it? Or am I being naïve here?
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  #485  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:22 PM
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They are not very good at catching illegal guns or drugs either.

BTW I've never been asked by a border guard (any country) if I've ever been arrested or convicted of an offence. Presumably this is a question they can ask?
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  #486  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:28 PM
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There's a big difference between the bigger points of entry on freeways, and much smaller customs (provided you have a valid reason to show up there, needless to say).

As I've probably pointed out already, I don't even recall the last time a U.S. customs officers even bothered to look into my vehicle, let alone ask me to pop the trunk.
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  #487  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:32 PM
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As I've probably pointed out already, I don't even recall the last time a U.S. customs officers even bothered to look into my vehicle, let alone ask me to pop the trunk.
Likewise. Although about a decade ago I recall a checkpoint set up on the northbound I-29 right by the border (it was past the last turnoff point). The US border patrol was checking trunks of cars heading into Canada... I wondered what that was about.
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  #488  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:35 PM
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They are not very good at catching illegal guns or drugs either.

BTW I've never been asked by a border guard (any country) if I've ever been arrested or convicted of an offence. Presumably this is a question they can ask?
I'd second that.
Not sure if I already shared this but I suppose there's no harm in it... My good knowledge of their operating procedures enabled me to bring, or "smuggle", a couple little White Oak trees from one of my properties in Sherbrooke into the U.S. for planting on my lands in NH. They're at the limit of their hardiness zone in our area, so I was curious to know how they'd do. It's been a couple winters and they're doing great.

(They have good genetics, they're from a 150 years old oak that's perfectly healthy, and I knew they were disease-free, so I don't feel guilty about anything. From the U.S. point of view, I'm making improvements - nothing to complain about there...)

I'd obviously never ever even think about bringing illegal stuff over the border, but I would honestly think I could do it fairly easily, given my experiences over the past several years.
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  #489  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Fair comment, but surely these CBSA officers are not just making it up as they go along... there must be some sort of policy or set of guidelines driven by something resembling a sound basis for implementing them?

Between Public Safety Canada and CBSA there are over 60,000 employees... presumably someone is paying close attention to how these matters should be handled and documenting it? Or am I being naïve here?
You mean border procedures? They get extensive training. There is a reason (and legal basis), in theory, for everything they do. Obviously, personalities and "people skills" are not standardized and there are big variations in the behaviours of the "clientele" as well.
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  #490  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
They are not very good at catching illegal guns or drugs either.

BTW I've never been asked by a border guard (any country) if I've ever been arrested or convicted of an offence. Presumably this is a question they can ask?
They no longer need to ask - the computer tells all. If they run your passport.
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  #491  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
They no longer need to ask - the computer tells all.
Has that changed? The US primary inspection has had access to criminal records for quite some time, but last I knew, it was only Canadian secondary inspections that saw criminal records.
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  #492  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
You mean border procedures? They get extensive training. There is a reason (and legal basis), in theory, for everything they do. Obviously, personalities and "people skills" are not standardized and there are big variations in the behaviours of the "clientele" as well.
FYI, they have a LOT of latitude in their decisions (what they ask, what they do). It's extremely un-standardized.

The Canadian ones, at least. I am not intimate with any American ones so I can't say for sure, but I would also say their behavior is highly variable.
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  #493  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2017, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
FYI, they have a LOT of latitude in their decisions (what they ask, what they do). It's extremely un-standardized.

The Canadian ones, at least. I am not intimate with any American ones so I can't say for sure, but I would also say their behavior is highly variable.
They get extensive training on stuff to look out for, especially psycho-behavioural stuff. But a huge portion of their work is still making "judgement calls". Otherwise the booths would be staffed by robots.
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