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  #2461  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2017, 3:20 AM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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A couple of days ago a UA 772 experienced a cracked windshield over Ottawa but ended up diverting to EWR.

https://www.avherald.com/h?article=4acc3b52&opt=0
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  #2462  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2017, 3:44 AM
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1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
I'm not even sure if you save any pennies. I've tried to book "ultra low cost" flights in Europe a bunch of times and have only ever ended up taking them when they were the only airline available.

By the time you add up the extra costs and the added ground transportation costs to get to obscure airports they end up costing more than "high cost airline."
I've used ULCCs in Europe extensively when travelling out of Prague for weekend trips. For short trips where you all you need is a small handbag for a toothbrush and some changes of clothes it's easy. I've gotten as far as London for as little as 600CZK (roughly CAD$35). Of course, there's two things that make it very advantageous for me in Prague:

1) ULCCs serve the Vaclav Havel airport just like the legacy carriers do; there's only one airport here.
2) Intercity rail connections out of Prague are kinda shitty by EU standards.

I very much doubt we'll get $35 tickets for 1100km trips in Canada, though. It's just not the same.
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  #2463  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2017, 3:50 AM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
I've used ULCCs in Europe extensively when travelling out of Prague for weekend trips. For short trips where you all you need is a small handbag for a toothbrush and some changes of clothes it's easy. I've gotten as far as London for as little as 600CZK (roughly CAD$35). Of course, there's two things that make it very advantageous for me in Prague:

1) ULCCs serve the Vaclav Havel airport just like the legacy carriers do; there's only one airport here.
2) Intercity rail connections out of Prague are kinda shitty by EU standards.

I very much doubt we'll get $35 tickets for 1100km trips in Canada, though. It's just not the same.
How do taxes/fees figure in airfare in Europe? About the same as here, or better?
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  #2464  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2017, 4:37 AM
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How do taxes/fees figure in airfare in Europe? About the same as here, or better?
Pricing is all in so I have no idea. This is the norm in Europe for everything--sales taxes, for example, are pretty much always included in the display prices of retail items over here.

They're actually pretty transparent on fees for ULCCs over here. Wizz Air for example makes it pretty clear what adds on your paying for and what you aren't, right at the booking page:



This sample flight, booked on a weekday two months in advance from Prague to London (roughly the same distance as Ottawa-Halifax) is Kč659 (CA$37.76).. for no checked baggage, no reserved seat, and only a small carry on bag allowed.

As you can see though they make it very clear and obvious, up front, how much money it will cost to add checked baggage or a bigger check-in bag to your itinerary and what each tier gets you.. it adds up pretty quick.. upgrading to 1 checked suitcase and a standard size carry-on bag more than doubles the price of the ticket, taking it to Kč1574 (CA$90.20).

I wouldn't be surprised if Wizz Air makes very little profit on each passenger who books with zero addons, relying on the baggage fees that most people will pay to make their money.
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  #2465  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2017, 1:52 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Here's TS' response to the CTA's demands for a response: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/sites/default/...se20170904.pdf

It's funny how TS publicly railed against the Airport Authority, yet their first 4 bullet point complains are directed at the fueller.

They also complain about parking spots. Again how is that the Airport Authority's fault? Nav Canada perhaps?

They also complain that AC flights were given refueling priority over theirs. Well TS maybe if you actually served YOW on a year-round basis, maybe you'd actually be a little more visible at YOW.

In fact nowhere in their 3 pager to the CTA do they ever cite that they asked for help from the Airport Authority.

Here are the CTA's next steps: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...639466003.html
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  #2466  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2017, 2:22 PM
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Here's TS' response to the CTA's demands for a response: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/sites/default/...se20170904.pdf

It's funny how TS publicly railed against the Airport Authority, yet their first 4 bullet point complains are directed at the fueller.

They also complain about parking spots. Again how is that the Airport Authority's fault? Nav Canada perhaps?

They also complain that AC flights were given refueling priority over theirs. Well TS maybe if you actually served YOW on a year-round basis, maybe you'd actually be a little more visible at YOW.

In fact nowhere in their 3 pager to the CTA do they ever cite that they asked for help from the Airport Authority.

Here are the CTA's next steps: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...639466003.html
The way they've worded their response would make you think that everybody in the world was out to get Air Transat. That seems much more unbelievable than the more likely scenario that, unlike those other airlines, TS officials did not follow proper procedures.
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  #2467  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2017, 5:18 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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On a separate topic, Via had a record Civic Holiday weekend: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...639878143.html

The Québec City-Windsor Corridor saw 77,000 people on the move – primarily between Toronto, Montréal and Ottawa; these three cities were the destinations for 24,000, 15,000 and 11,000 travellers during this period.
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  #2468  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2017, 6:22 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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I've taken low-cost carriers many times in Europe (both EasyJet & RyanAir) and have always found amazing deals. Some of the best examples;
Milan, Italy - Paris, France (return trip with taxes 14 euros)
Milan, Italy - Marrakesh, Morroco (return trip with taxes 90 euros)
I've also flown to UK, Barcelona, Canary Islands, Greece, all return trips between 40-60 euros!

Unfortunately I don't think we will see anything like this in Canada

I looked at flying to Toronto or Winnipeg or NYC from Ottawa in the last couple of months and the cheapest I could usually find was about $300-$500 return, taxes-in.

So even with these new so-called "ultra low cost" airlines popping up, I don't expect much savings in Canada. Might end up being $50-$100 cheaper than the main carrier but by the time you add the bus/inconvenience there will be very little savings for the consumer unfortunately.
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  #2469  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2017, 2:13 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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LOL. Not even close. Hamilton will be $90 at best. Toronto will be ~$110 at best. And that's in each direction.

I think people are quickly going to find that the savings are rather minor on short-haul. You'll get lots of bellyaching then.

People just don't understand how incredibly high aviation taxes and surcharges are in Canada. The airport rents alone are effectively a massive tax on aviation.
Nah I think $69-$79 taxes in will be offered either as the seat sale or lowest everyday fare bucket to YHM. Keep in mind the ULCC will recoup much of the difference through a carry-on bag fee. YHM's much lower landing/terminal fees would recoup the rest. On top of that the ULCC needs the 1/2 dozen "ridiculously low" seats per flight in order to generate hype for their services.

On short-haul, where the ULCC will make a real difference is the full Y fare. The ULCC's full Y will be $300 max. That's more than 50% lower than AC's full Y/Latitude. For example, for today's 1400 Rapidair, the only fares still available are full Y Latitude and the low J fare bucket...meaning the flight is probably oversold in Y with some J still available. In fact the J fare is $100 cheaper than the Y seat.
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  #2470  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2017, 3:14 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
Nah I think $69-$79 taxes in will be offered either as the seat sale or lowest everyday fare bucket to YHM. Keep in mind the ULCC will recoup much of the difference through a carry-on bag fee. YHM's much lower landing/terminal fees would recoup the rest. On top of that the ULCC needs the 1/2 dozen "ridiculously low" seats per flight in order to generate hype for their services.
How much lower are the terminal/landing fees?

The AIF at Hamilton is the same as at Pearson ($25).
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  #2471  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2017, 4:09 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
How much lower are the terminal/landing fees?

The AIF at Hamilton is the same as at Pearson ($25).
The landing fees are given in dollars per 1000 kg of MTOW (max takeoff weight) of the aircraft:

Pearson $17.19
Hamilton $12.55

So, using a 737 MAX-8 MTOW of ~82,000kg:

Pearson = $1410
Hamilton $1030

Terminal fees:

Pearson = $7.06-8.82 / aircraft seat (domestic/int'l)
Hamilton = $3.21-6.42 / aircraft seat (domestic/int'l)

So, 30-50% savings, depending on whether it is a domestic or international flight.
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  #2472  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2017, 4:36 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
The landing fees are given in dollars per 1000 kg of MTOW (max takeoff weight) of the aircraft:

Pearson $17.19
Hamilton $12.55

So, using a 737 MAX-8 MTOW of ~82,000kg:

Pearson = $1410
Hamilton $1030

Terminal fees:

Pearson = $7.06-8.82 / aircraft seat (domestic/int'l)
Hamilton = $3.21-6.42 / aircraft seat (domestic/int'l)

So, 30-50% savings, depending on whether it is a domestic or international flight.
Thanks for the info. But the savings are only $5-6 per passenger. It isn't nothing, but it is hard to see that being the basis of a low cost business model.
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  #2473  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2017, 5:08 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post

On short-haul, where the ULCC will make a real difference is the full Y fare. The ULCC's full Y will be $300 max. That's more than 50% lower than AC's full Y/Latitude. For example, for today's 1400 Rapidair, the only fares still available are full Y Latitude and the low J fare bucket...meaning the flight is probably oversold in Y with some J still available. In fact the J fare is $100 cheaper than the Y seat.
Aren't most full Y travelers either self-employed (in which case the flight is a tax deduction) or travelling at their employers' expense? On short-haul flights, there are usually some sort of discounted tickets available even for same-day travel (I can fly this afternoon to Toronto for $323, which is still half the full fare).
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  #2474  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2017, 8:38 PM
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HighwayStar HighwayStar is offline
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Anybody know what's up with AC YYZ YOW today??? I'm stuck in Pearson with lots of cancellations to YOW... and they're now telling me my only option is in 6 hours. AC is quite clear it's an ATC thing.... but I've never heard of that before...
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  #2475  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2017, 9:27 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
Anybody know what's up with AC YYZ YOW today??? I'm stuck in Pearson with lots of cancellations to YOW... and they're now telling me my only option is in 6 hours. AC is quite clear it's an ATC thing.... but I've never heard of that before...
I think it's weather - thunderstorms, trees down, hail, the works.
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  #2476  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2017, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
I think it's weather - thunderstorms, trees down, hail, the works.
Quote:
Over 80 flights to and from Pearson cancelled due to weather, staffing
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...onto-1.4245457

Weather is one thing, but "ATC being short staffed" ????? I spent 6 hours in lineups yesterday... who do I direct my fury at???
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  #2477  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2017, 4:27 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by HighwayStar View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...onto-1.4245457

Weather is one thing, but "ATC being short staffed" ????? I spent 6 hours in lineups yesterday... who do I direct my fury at???
Well if you're a TS employee you'll blame the weather, yesterday's power outages around Ottawa and Nav Canada and CATSA staff shortages on the YYZ Airport Authority.
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  #2478  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2017, 11:21 AM
RomanR27 RomanR27 is offline
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There was a B77L on the 460-465 RapidAir turn Sunday evening, must have been taking care of the weekend backlog.
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  #2479  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2017, 1:25 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Thanks for the info. But the savings are only $5-6 per passenger. It isn't nothing, but it is hard to see that being the basis of a low cost business model.
I'm not sure if this is because of the competition from NewLeaf at Hamilton, but Westjet's flights from there are $100-120 cheaper to Calgary. Combined with the cheaper long-term parking and you could have a significant savings on travel.
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  #2480  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2017, 1:46 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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I'm not sure if this is because of the competition from NewLeaf at Hamilton, but Westjet's flights from there are $100-120 cheaper to Calgary. Combined with the cheaper long-term parking and you could have a significant savings on travel.
I'm not sure they're consistently cheaper (I just plugged in a few random dates and Toronto is cheaper). Given that there are a lot more flights out of Toronto you're probably more likely to find a discounted ticket. Saving $30/week on parking might be a consideration for some people, but I'm not sure people who pay for long-term parking at airports are the demographic ulc airlines are chasing (from most of the GTA you could take transit to pearson, save $54 on parking and still get there faster faster than driving to the far side of hamilton).
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